THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH

[p_rehbein]

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

On a "SIDEBAR" I have seen this Scripture used to say that if a man has been divorced, they can not be a Bishop or Deacon.

That is not a correct understanding of the Scripture IMO. Simply because at the time, it was not uncommon for men to have more than one wife. Pauls advice was that they should only have ONE wife, because there would be less confusion in the household.....

All of this, when read together, is VERY GOOD ADVICE to avoid contention and confusion in both the Church Congregation and in the Home. What is is not IMO is Commandments from God.... Customs of the time, as was the custom under the Law......

Anyway, thank you for the discussion. This is why I give you so much credit. For we may disagree, but we do so in Christian fellowship.

God bless you and yours...........my duties call me..........and my supper

 

[proverbs35]

Ditch the perversion...

1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

You do realize that the Old Testament was originally written in Greek. English is ONLY a translation. English is not the original or first language of the Bible.
The Old Testament was first and originally written in Greek.

The Greek word DIAKONOS (Strong's Concordance 1249) gets translated into the English word Deacon. The same Greek word (DIAKONOS Strong's Concordance 1249) that gets translated into English as Deacon is used to describe Phoebe (a woman) in Romans 16:1 and men 1 Timothy 3:12.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/romans/16-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_timothy/3-12.htm

Are you disputing the Greek language?
When God himself decided that Greek would be the original and first language of the Old Testament rather that English.

 

[CS1]

Where did he say "God commands?" he didn't.

As well, these Chapters are a continous teaching so read ALL of them to seek understanding..........

where did he say God commands?

LOL Let me ask you this if you need to see where Paul said God commands to do or not that starts with the law which Paul did not have to say God Command every time it is a no-brainer. Did Paul say anything that was a revelation of Christ given to Him that He did not say "God commands" that is very much authoritative? Yes he did :

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?"


"And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks."


"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. "


Paul said :

God commands
The word of the Lord
The word of the Lord Jesus
IN the name of Jesus
by the authority of the Lord Jesus


All these Statements are authoritative in addition to " God commands".

 

[CS1]

Judging makes a Judge. A Judge has AUTHORITY over all those they sit in Judgement of.

Ok I- can agree with that

 

[CS1]

Yes, as was the CUSTOM of the time.............however........

lest any MAN be contentious, the Churches of God HAVE NO SUCH CUSTOMS....

that was the word of the Lord LOL from Paul, come now.

 

[CS1]

So others who hold authority like fathers, husbands or kings cannot be willfully disobeyed? People disobey fathers, husbands and kings too. What point are you trying to make?

yes absolutely you are correct, however, as it was stated about Deborah

But she did not take authority over Barak. In fact Barak asked her to go with him, but she said that this would not be to his honor: And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour (Judges 4:9).

Who was Barak? leader of Israel Before the times of Kings.

 

[CS1]

On a "SIDEBAR" I have seen this Scripture used to say that if a man has been divorced, they can not be a Bishop or Deacon.

That is not a correct understanding of the Scripture IMO. Simply because at the time, it was not uncommon for men to have more than one wife. Pauls advice was that they should only have ONE wife, because there would be less confusion in the household.....

All of this, when read together, is VERY GOOD ADVICE to avoid contention and confusion in both the Church Congregation and in the Home. What is is not IMO is Commandments from God.... Customs of the time, as was the custom under the Law......

Anyway, thank you for the discussion. This is why I give you so much credit. For we may disagree, but we do so in Christian fellowship.

God bless you and yours...........my duties call me..........and my supper

I think divorce does hurt the integrity of the office. God hates divorce but his calling and gifting are without repentance. The LIST OF QUALIFICATIONS PAUL GAVE is Praise worthy.

 

[CS1]

You do realize that the Old Testament was originally written in Greek. English is ONLY a translation. English is not the original or first language of the Bible.
The Old Testament was first and originally written in Greek.

The Greek word DIAKONOS (Strong's Concordance 1249) gets translated into the English word Deacon. The same Greek word (DIAKONOS Strong's Concordance 1249) that gets translated into English as Deacon is used to describe Phoebe (a woman) in Romans 16:1 and men 1 Timothy 3:12.

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/romans/16-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/1_timothy/3-12.htm

Are you disputing the Greek language?
When God himself decided that Greek would be the original and first language of the Old Testament rather that English.

OLd was written originally in Hebrew, the Subtugent was in Greek.

 

[proverbs35]

yes absolutely you are correct, however, as it was stated about Deborah

But she did not take authority over Barak. In fact Barak asked her to go with him, but she said that this would not be to his honor: And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour (Judges 4:9).

Who was Barak? leader of Israel Before the times of Kings.

I have a longer response. However, what verse tells us that Barak was the leader of Israel before kings?

 

[CS1]

I have a longer response. However, what verse tells us that Barak was the leader of Israel before kings?

good question. From what we see in chapter 4_5 of Judges he is elevated to the position by his actions and the calling from the word of the Lord
jud 4:6
And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedeshnaphtali, and said unto him, Hath not the LORD God of Israel commanded, saying, Go and draw toward mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun?

it appears God called Barak.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Ditch the perversion...

1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

No perversion dude. That is a translation. But the Greek word there is diakonos which is a root word for the English deacon. But a deacon's role is one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman. Servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion.

deacon (n.)
Middle English deken, "one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman," from Old English deacon, diacon, from Late Latin diaconus, from Greek diakonos "servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion." Related: Deaconess; deaconship.

So as you can see if we are looking for closeness in accuracy, deacon is a better word to fit diakonos. Servant is a true role of deacon but can be misunderstood on its own.

 

[proverbs35]

OLd was written originally in Hebrew, the Subtugent was in Greek.

Absolutely. I had Greek on the brain from a prior comment that I made to another poster on this thread.

 

[John146]

In their house was THEIR CHURCH meeting place!!!! Priscilla taught the young man on the same level of authority as did Aquila............

This did not occur in their house in the presence of the local assembly. You're adding to scripture to fit your theology. They took him aside from the synagogue where he was preaching.

 

[John146]

You did NOT say both of them were correcting, only Aquila.

Where is the Scripture verse for this?

Nope, wrong again on my statement. I stated that if she was involved with the correction, she did so in the presence of her husband, not by herself. That's biblical.

 

[John146]

itim 3:2-7

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Please notice the comma above after must be blameless and the next one after Husband of one wife, and on and on where did Paul say "I say"? he didn't

"Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

I am sorry the context of the overseer is to be a man.

Here come the attacks you woman hater...

 

[John146]

No perversion dude. That is a translation. But the Greek word there is diakonos which is a root word for the English deacon. But a deacon's role is one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman. Servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion.

deacon (n.)
Middle English deken, "one who reads the Gospel in divine worship, one of a body of assistants to a priest or other clergyman," from Old English deacon, diacon, from Late Latin diaconus, from Greek diakonos "servant of the church, religious official," literally "servant," from dia- here perhaps "thoroughly, from all sides," + PIE *kon-o-, from root *ken- "to hasten, set oneself in motion." Related: Deaconess; deaconship.

So as you can see if we are looking for closeness in accuracy, deacon is a better word to fit diakonos. Servant is a true role of deacon but can be misunderstood on its own.

I've refuted this many times.

The new versions open the way for gay marriage. If a deacon can be a woman, and the office of a deacon can have but one wife, then a woman who is a deacon can have a wife.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

What! How dare you! Are you trying to oppress the woman's role in marriage?

Nah. The women actually are to be treated like a delicate rose but protected like expensive fine jewelry. Almost as if the man is to become her knight. The man has a heavier burden in how to treat her as He is to be like Christ so really it us the opposite of oppression but progression. We are to be examples for the pagan culture on how to love and treat woman as equals in personhood but respected in different roles as in motherhood or ability to love easier than a man.

Then after the man comes Christ which had the heaviest burden of all. The death on the cross and the sin of mankind.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I've refuted this many times.

The new versions open the way for gay marriage. If a deacon can be a woman, and the office of a deacon can have but one wife, then a woman who is a deacon can have a wife.

When did Greek become a new version?

 

[John146]

When did Greek become a new version?

1 Timothy 3:12 - “ Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.”

The underlying Greek word in question is διακονον - diakonos. But it has several meanings. In the KJV it is translated as DEACON only twice and these are in 1 Timothy 3:8 and 12 where it refers to one of the offices in the local church. We have elders and deacons. But both were men who were to be married to godly wives.

The main meaning of the word is minister, meaning a servant, and the word SERVANT itself. It is used in such places as John 2:5 and 2:9 where Jesus turned the water into wine.

“His mother saith unto the SERVANTS, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.” John 2:5

“When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the SERVANTS which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom” John 2:9

The verb form of this word is diakoneo and it also means TO SERVE or to MINISTER - as in Hebrews 6:10 - “ For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that YE HAVE MINISTERED to the saints, and DO MINISTER.”

The new versions translate the word diakonos as servant or servants some 20 times, minister 4 times, attendants once, and deacon 3 times.

Most Bibles throughout history have translated Romans 16:1 as “Phebe our sister, which is a SERVANT of the church which is at Cenchrea”. - or “minister” meaning a servant.

The NASB, ESV, NKJV, Holman Standard and NET versions all have “our sister Phoebe, A SERVANT of the church”

But there is a growing movement in these modern times to promote women to the place of leadership in the church by making them either Pastors or Deacons, especially in the more liberal churches - contrary to what the Bible teaches.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Here come the attacks you woman hater...

Can you show that the provisions in Timothy for that church is universal and not local to the church under Timothy?

We can learn a lot from their mistakes.

Do a quick search on the church of Ephesus, the scriptures related to Ephesus, the letter to the Ephesians and Artemis temple.