Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[FreeGrace2]

SO REV 14 is a lie?????

Please pay attention. Rev 14 is a look-ahead and not chronological as you presume.

 

[FreeGrace2]

They were martyrs.

They are kept under the altar.

So your deal falls apart.

Not "my deal" at all. Rev 20 is the Bible. That's when the martyrs under the altar are resurrected; when ALL the other believers receive their own resurrection body.

Oh, btw, where is that verse that shows Jesus taking any resurrrected believers to heaven? Still waiting.

 

[Absolutely]

Good thing we got a bible
You did not investigate, Your teachers fooled you.

Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

mat 25
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

oooops

lets take an honest look.

we have noah delivered pretrib

we have one taken, one left, in the same timeframe as "before the flood"
(AHEM.....that would be pretrib)

In the same breath Jesus says to watch and pray for the rapture.
(uh...pretrib)

Jesus barely catches his breath and goes into the 10 virgin parable.

Again, pretrib setting with the same ratio of half taken and half left.

Now it makes sense that Jesus would say "pray that yo be worthy for the pretrib rapture"

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please allow me to rewrite as a correction:

So you believe that there are THREE Advents of Christ. That is simply scripture. (Much better.)

I can't figure out your post, but I NEVER said anything about 3 advents. Only 2.

Christ came to earth as a baby, and suffering servant. He will come back as King of kings and Lord of lords.

This is a true statement.

Of course.

But so is this: He will also come back first to collect His bride - around 7 years before He comes as King to Armageddon.

If true, then there will be a verse that supports your claim. Where is it? I'd like to see if for myself.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, it is true, whenever a saint dies, they go to those homes. You have that part right. Here is the difference: I believe what He said, that He would go and build, then would come and receive us (as the bride) unto Himself. Where will He be when He receives His bride? In the air and in the clouds.

You are simply reading INTO John 14 what isn't there.

 

[Absolutely]

some of you think the church is subject to God's wrath we are not. The bride of Christ doesn't have to endure abuse to prove their love to God. The Rapture has never been taught as a secret, we are told He is coming for His Bride and to be ready. You are ready or you are not. Ready means at the time of death or at the appearance.

not only is that a no brainer,but i never heard of a secret rapture until postribbers began to pull that mess on us as if it were true.

 

[Absolutely]

Rev 12:11​

Yes
it is saying they all died.

good point.
there is no postrib rapture.

those teachers deceived you

 

[Absolutely]

That's man-made Left-Behind doctrine.
It has no context in the prophetic narrative of scripture.

Look at the origins of the postrib rapture doctrine.

it was men that saw Jerusalem destroyed and her people scattered into the world.
they thought they were in the trib and all prophecy of Israel defunct because Israel as a nation was destroyed.

that is WHERE that postribber doctrine came from

deceived men

 

[FreeGrace2]

You are too funny. Why would I want error to "sink in?" The truth is, I don't.

I won't go and find your previous post. It will be wrong too.

Yeah, sure. The Bible speaks of ears and eyes that are OPEN, unlike yours. That's why you aren't hearing or seeing.

Where you miss it: you just don't believe Paul.

This is funny. I've quoted Paul more than you or anyone else. All the pretribbers can do is make claims. They have NO verses that support their pretrib presumption.

He tells us that the rapture will come just before the Day of the Lord and the start of God's wrath.

Please provide the verse where He tells us that.

Next, the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the DAY.

YES!! Along with "the coming of the Lord" in 2 Thess 2:1-3. The Second Advent and gathering/rapture occur at the same event.

Where you miss it: you imagine that the "first resurrection" is a one time event that happens at the end of the week.

I don't have to imagine anything. I understand Rev 20. The first resurrertion is plainly stated to be when Christ returns to reign.

And I KNOW there is but ONE resurrection of the saved, as Jesus noted in Luke 14:14, Paul in Acts 24:15 and again in 1 cor 15:23.

You're going to have to unpack all of these verses to prove that there are more than one resurrection of the saved.

You forget that Jesus' own resurrection was a part of that "first" resurrection.

When you finally understand 1 Cor 15:23, you'll realize that His resurrection is clearly apart from ALL the other believers.

You don't understand, the rapture events will be the second wave of people taking part in that first resurrection.

Yeah, right. "wave". try again. Or better, try reading the Bible. I've already shown from Scripture that there is just ONE resurrection of saved people.

Then around 7 years later the Old Testament saints will be another wave. You see, God chose to make that the ONLY resurrection for the righteous over all time.

Show me in the Bible about all these "waves" you imagine.

Again, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15 and 1 Cor 15:23 all prove that there is just ONE resurrection of the saved.

So, your job is to figure out WHEN that ONE resurrection occurs. No waves, no multiples. Just ONE.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked:
So, you tell me, from this verse, just WHEN that single saved resurrection will occur.

Where you miss it: You are asking a silly question.

How can it be silly? The Bible is clear about the SINGLE resurrection of the saved.

You are trying to pinpoint a single moment in time for this resurrection for the righteous.

The Bible did. Jesus and Paul.

Where you miss it: There will be only 1 resurrection for the saved Rather, there is one TITLE for all the resurrections for the righteous over time. John titled that resurrection as the first or chief resurrection. It is not one event, it covers all time.

Then you are basically admitting a difficulty with reading plain language. I've given you 3 verses that clearly indicate that there is just ONE resurrection of the saved.

But it takes open eyes and ears to comprehend it.

 

[Absolutely]

Listen to yourself and your relentless comments about nothing particularly relevant or effective to elaborate why you believe the pre-trib is correct. It's just comes off as a bunch of hot air:

"Postribber...." Nope you got it wrong Jesus. We would never pray that...there is no point in it"
"I know you have zero interest in those things.
"Your deal is impossible."
"as wimpy believers that are not brave like you guys."
"You guys DEFINITELY ...NEVER... plan to escape"
"In fact you guys despise that notion...and brag about how you will be running from cave to cave with the devil man chasing you with an overgrown axe"
"If you dont know..i will look it up for you. ( you will NEVER find it in ANY postribber talking points)"
"Too funny"
"Makes no sense"
"I can ASSURE YOU... "

You've proved nothing other than that you know how to talk a lot of smack without ever actually taking time to disprove/prove anything; a lot of smoke, mirrors, distraction, and forum sliding. Your strategy is to flood Bible discussions with a lot of pointless rambling and bury quality comments worthy of proper discussion. Truly shameful.

here is the other escape verse
rev 3
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

not even possible for that to be any sort of a postrib rapture.

should is say it???

go for it!!!!

YOUR DEAL IS IMPOSSIBLE

LOL

 

[FreeGrace2]

Sorry, but your proof does not pass the test of all end time scriptures.

I've given you the verses, all of which you are ignoring rather than dealing with them. Because you know you can't unpack them.

They MEAN exactly what they SAY. ONE resurrection of the saved.

 

[Absolutely]

1) God sends the 4 horsemen.
2) that is great great tribulation.
3) the bible says "all take the mark"
4) refusing the mark ends in beheading.
5) the imnumerable number before the throne are the billions beheaded. It CLEARLY SAYS they came out of the great trib.

Those dynamics alone remove your hope of going through the trib.

Jesus said " pray that you be counted worthy to escape tge things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of God"

Postribber...." Nope you got it wrong Jesus. We would never pray that...there is no point in it"

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[FreeGrace2]

the ac kills all refusing the mark.
It says in the bible that power is given to the ac to overcome the saints
it says "all take the mark"
The 4 horsemen deliver grief never before seen on the planet, and , ARE SENT FROM HEAVEN.

you postribs think some "wrath vs trib" is the basis for some false idea that the pretrib verses are somehow voided.

postrib rapture is BASED ON OMISSION.
That is a fact.

Right. Omission of a pretrib rapture, which isn't taught in the Bible.

 

[Mem]

Oh, btw, where is that verse that shows Jesus taking any resurrrected believers to heaven? Still waiting.

 

[ewq1938]

Please allow me to rewrite as a correction:

So you believe that there are THREE Advents of Christ. That is simply scripture. (Much better.)

No, it's still wrong. There isn't a third coming. At the one and only second coming is when Christ returns with the former dead and raptures the living. They meet in the clouds and will follow Christ where ever he goes which is down closer to the ground to fight an army on the ground. This battle is fought in the air by Christ according to Revelation 19.

 

[ewq1938]

That is only because your definition of "the first resurrection" is not according to scripture.

Actually yours is not according to scripture. You have invented a first resurrection that is through "all time" just like you invented a third coming. These aren't surprising given you also refuse to accecpt the actual definition of Apostasia because you think the Strong's concordance is "fibbing" when it says the word means a defection from the truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

1) God sends the 4 horsemen.

Have you considered how much of the first 3 horsemen that can be seen now?

And how close the 4 horseman is now?

 

[randyk]

This sounds like you know what you are talking about. But ANY historian would disagree. I do too. In Rev. 1, John is alive and it is sometime in his life: 95 AD or before. In Rev. 21 John is far out into our future. It makes good sense then that somewhere between chapter 1 and chapter 21 is where the church is NOW.

I think the church has been waiting at the 5th seal for the final martyr of the church age - who are all waiting for the Judgment to begin - at the 6th seal. The fifth seal is history. The sixth seal is future. Everything John wrote after the 5th seal is events future to use today. See how simple this is?

You didn't show differentiation at all between what you just said and what I said. I do believe that the book of Revelation is largely about the last 3.5 years in this age, when Antichrist presides over 7 leaders and 10 states in Europe. It is in fact future.

But all of this is given to the Church in history, not to expect that they will literally see that time, but in order to meet the Antichrists of their own time in the same way, with the same courage, with the same fortitude, and with the same faithfulness. What on earth are you disagreeing with me about?

 

[randyk]

I am pretrib, but I have never used the word "secret" for the rapture. How can something SO NOISY be kept secret? Everyone in the world will hear the trumpet - but perhaps only those in Christ will know what it is. And when perhaps half the population suddenly is gone, how in the world can that be kept "secret?" Husbands around the world will be looking for their missing wives, wives will be looking for their missing husbands, both husbands and wives will be looking for their kids. It is going to be pandemonium - anything but secret.

Yes, the Coming of Christ is indeed noisy. That's a major argument we Postribbers use against Pretrib and their "Secret Rapture." If you don't believe in a Secret Rapture as a Pretribber, then you're a rare Pretribber indeed!