If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

[Laura798]

I would suggest dating a road runner and have something stronger so you cant remember when dating the enemy

Now that will be $200 payable by bitcoin and I say goodnite to all

Thank you--I've tried the road runners and can't keep up with them. And sorry, I'll have to write you an iou for the bitcoin--i'm $199 short...

 

[pittsburghjoe]

What do you think it means for JESUS to ascend and fill all things?

Ephesians 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

[Laura798]

What do you think it means for JESUS to ascend and fill all things?

Ephesians 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Hi PJ,

I know this is meant for Jocund, but I hope you don't mind. This doesn't have anything to do with the question but instead the verse. I was just looking up that verse today and additionally, the symbolism of '1000' a few days ago. In any case 1000 can mean a large number, but it can also mean fullness/ completeness as in 'in the fullness of time'-- as when something comes to fruition--think of a woman pregnant and it comes time for the delivery. Or the ripeness of a fruit. In any case I believe something is missing in the translation--I believe 'fullness' is more about completion. when Christ ascended--he is no longer is in TIME. Whatever happened here on the cross is what brings everything together past , present and future--God's master plan is tied up--not in the end but in the middle--at the cross. It's very hard to express what I mean in words. Perhaps you or others could expand on this.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Here is an interesting synergy:

"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." - Pslam 90:4 KJV

1) Psalm 90:4 describes a thousand years as a watch in the night.

2) The parable of the wedding banquet in Matthew 22 describes individuals invited but wilfully refused and murder the messengers. These individuals that rejected the invitation and murdered the messengers are destroyed and their cities burned. Parties that were not originally on the invitation list are added. Of those invited, the ones that were not in wedding attire were bound and thrown out of the banquet. Not all who were invited were chosen (one should put on Christ to satisfy the attire requirement).

3) The parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25 describes an awakening at midnight in the time of the kingdom of heaven (a watch in the night?) for virgins to attend a wedding banquet. Each virgin intended to attend but only some had their lamp oil ready and some had to detour to buy their oil. Upon returning from the detour, those that did not have their oil ready at the right time were refused entry.

If the 1000 years described in Revelation 20 also correlates to these parables about the kingdom of heaven and the wedding banquet, the timeframe is figurative and there are other elements we may infer. Namely: not all those who are invited to the resurrection at the beginning of the "1000 years" will be saved. Although Rev 20 speaks of a first resurrection and other passages denote a "resurrection unto salvation and a resurrection unto damnation" but it may be interpreted that those two resurrections are actually descriptions of types instead of chronological instances. It may be the case that the references in Rev 20 describe instances that are a mix of types. This interpetaton works with the concept that some may attend the banquet (the 1000 years) but ultimately be cast out into a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (invited but not called or chosen), and also works with the concept that the second resurrection happens at a later period in the night (based on the parable of the ten virgins).

There are some references in Matthew and Revelation about the sun being blocked out and essentially a time of literal darkness or light impairment. They may be related to the concept of a "watch in the night" and may add flavour but aren't critical for the interpretation. A literal darkness isn't necessary for the interpretation. The entertaining part of the interpretation is that this would make Satan something like a wedding crasher at the end of the 1000 years when he is loosed.

The Book of Revelation is like a ransom note with phrases cut out of the rest of The Bible. i think you might have found something big with this Psalm 90:4.

 

[Rondonmon]

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,

//Did this just say John was already in The Kingdom of JESUS CHRIST?

Not as pertaining unto earth at that time, God lives in all time at once. so does Jesus then, thus Jesus has always been the Creator/King, but he's still not OUR King on this earth, not us, Satan rules over this world and us at this time. Noyce the word Patience? Ths means Jesus obeyed God and sat at his right hand until God gave Him this Kingdom.

All one has to do is look around, is this earth in God/Jesus' image or in Christ's Image?

Babylon Falls in Revelation because Babylon refers to Satan's CONFUSION of Mankind on this earth.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Hi PJ,

I know this is meant for Jocund, but I hope you don't mind. This doesn't have anything to do with the question but instead the verse. I was just looking up that verse today and additionally, the symbolism of '1000' a few days ago. In any case 1000 can mean a large number, but it can also mean fullness/ completeness as in 'in the fullness of time'-- as when something comes to fruition--think of a woman pregnant and it comes time for the delivery. Or the ripeness of a fruit. In any case I believe something is missing in the translation--I believe 'fullness' is more about completion. when Christ ascended--he is no longer is in TIME. Whatever happened here on the cross is what brings everything together past , present and future--God's master plan is tied up--not in the end but in the middle--at the cross. It's very hard to express what I mean in words. Perhaps you or others could expand on this.

i see The Cross and Resurrection as the last day of this earth. We are in an overlap. Everyone Reborn is connected to 2000 years ago. The Door into the Infinite Kingdom. It's how we walk past the Angels guarding The Tree of LIFE.

 

[Rondonmon]

Here is an interesting synergy:

"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." - Pslam 90:4 KJV

1) Psalm 90:4 describes a thousand years as a watch in the night.

Just as 10 and 7 mean Completeness and anytime there are TIMED by the other complete number, or even by TIMED by 12 (Fulness) then God is "EMPHASIZING" Completeness. And since God is ETERNAL, anytime God says a day unto Him is like 1000 years what he is really saying is Hey men on earth, CATCH THE HINT, I am eternal, I live in ALL TIME AT ONCE (Completeness), hence a Day is like a 1000 years because I live in Heaven in the future with you all who came unto Christ RIGHT NOW, I live in the original moment of Creation of the Universe RIGHT NOW, I live in your present-day on earth RIGHT NOW, because I am ETERNAL, and hence a Day is not only like unto a 1000 years (seeing as 10 x 10 x 10 = Completeness x completeness x completeness or ALL ETERNITY) but also like 10,000 years and like 100,000 years and like 10 million years and like 10, billion years !!

If people ever grasp how God uses numbers, their understanding of Prophesy will grow immensely.

God is NOT SUBJECT unto our TIME CONSTRAINTS, that is all He is saying in Psalm 90:4. God CREATED this Universe and its TIME FACTORS for us.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

JESUS is The Way into The Kingdom of GOD.

So what is going on with the following?

Rev 11:15 "The seventh angel sounded his trumpet"..."The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ"

Is JESUS handing The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST to His Father? Is it related to JESUS handing The Book of LIFE to His Father?

 

[pittsburghjoe]

This is curious:

Deuteronomy 7:8-9
But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

1 Chronicles 16:14-15
He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

 

[ewq1938]

Proving the thousand years of Revelation 20 is exactly 1000 years.

The Greek word chilias "thousand" G5505 is only used in scripture when there is multiples of thousands of something:


Luk_14:31 OrG2228 whatG5101 king,G935 goingG4198 to make warG4820 G1519 G4171 against anotherG2087 king,G935 sitteth not downG2523 G3780 first,G4412 andG2532 consultethG1011 whetherG1487 he beG2076 ableG1415 withG1722 tenG1176 thousandG5505 to meetG528 him that comethG2064 againstG1909 himG846 withG3326 twentyG1501 thousand?G5505

Act_4:4 HowbeitG1161 manyG4183 of them which heardG191 theG3588 wordG3056 believed;G4100 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of theG3588 menG435 wasG1096 aboutG5616 fiveG4002 thousand.G5505

1Co_10:8 NeitherG3366 let us commit fornication,G4203 asG2531 someG5100 of themG846 committed,G4203 andG2532 fellG4098 inG1722 oneG3391 dayG2250 three and twenty thousand.G5140 G1501 G5505

Rev_5:11 AndG2532 I beheld,G1492 andG2532 I heardG191 the voiceG5456 of manyG4183 angelsG32 round aboutG2943 theG3588 throneG2362 andG2532 theG3588 beastsG2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of themG846 wasG2258 ten thousand times ten thousand,G3461 G3461 andG2532 thousands of thousands;G5505 G5505

Rev_7:4 AndG2532 I heardG191 theG3588 numberG706 of them which were sealed:G4972 and there were sealedG4972 an hundred and forty and four thousandG1540 G5062 G5064 G5505 ofG1537 allG3956 the tribesG5443 of the childrenG5207 of Israel.G2474
Rev_7:5 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of JudaG2455 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of ReubenG4502 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of GadG1045 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505
Rev_7:6 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of AserG768 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of NepthalimG3508 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of ManassesG3128 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505
Rev_7:7 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of SimeonG4826 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of LeviG3017 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of IssacharG2466 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505
Rev_7:8 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of ZabulonG2194 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of JosephG2501 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505 OfG1537 the tribeG5443 of BenjaminG958 were sealedG4972 twelveG1427 thousand.G5505

Rev_11:13 AndG2532 the sameG1565 hourG5610 wasG1096 there a greatG3173 earthquake,G4578 andG2532 theG3588 tenth partG1182 of theG3588 cityG4172 fell,G4098 andG2532 inG1722 theG3588 earthquakeG4578 were slainG615 of(G3686) menG444 sevenG2033 thousand:G5505 andG2532 theG3588 remnantG3062 wereG1096 affrighted,G1719 andG2532 gaveG1325 gloryG1391 to theG3588 GodG2316 of heaven.G3772

Rev_14:1 AndG2532 I looked,G1492 and,G2532 lo,G2400 a LambG721 stoodG2476 onG1909 theG3588 mountG3735 Sion,G4622 andG2532 withG3326 himG846 an hundred forty and four thousand,G1540 G5062 G5064 G5505 havingG2192 hisG848 Father'sG3962 nameG3686 writtenG1125 inG1909 theirG848 foreheads.G3359

Rev_14:3 AndG2532 they sungG103 as it wereG5613 a newG2537 songG5603 beforeG1799 theG3588 throne,G2362 andG2532 beforeG1799 theG3588 fourG5064 beasts,G2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 no manG3762 couldG1410 learnG3129 that songG5603 butG1508 theG3588 hundred and forty and four thousand,G1540 G5062 G5064 G5505 which were redeemedG59 fromG575 theG3588 earth.G1093

Rev_21:16 AndG2532 theG3588 cityG4172 liethG2749 foursquare,G5068 andG2532 theG3588 lengthG3372 (G848) isG2076 as largeG5118 asG3745 theG3588 breadth:G4114 andG2532 he measuredG3354 theG3588 cityG4172 with theG3588 reed,G2563 twelveG1427 thousandG5505 (G1909) furlongs.G4712 TheG3588 lengthG3372 andG2532 theG3588 breadthG4114 andG2532 theG3588 heightG5311 of itG846 areG2076 equal.G2470


Yet when the number is only one single thousand of something or one thousand plus another number that's less than two thousand, the Greek word chilioi G5507 is used:


2Pe_3:8 But,G1161 beloved,G27 be not ignorantG2990 G3361 of thisG5124 one thing,G1520 thatG3754 oneG3391 dayG2250 is withG3844 the LordG2962 asG5613 a thousandG5507 years,G2094 andG2532 a thousandG5507 yearsG2094 asG5613 oneG3391 day.G2250

Rev_11:3 AndG2532 I will giveG1325 power unto myG3450 twoG1417 witnesses,G3144 andG2532 they shall prophesyG4395 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days,G2250 clothedG4016 in sackcloth.G4526

Rev_12:6 AndG2532 theG3588 womanG1135 fledG5343 intoG1519 theG3588 wilderness,G2048 whereG3699 she hathG2192 a placeG5117 preparedG2090 ofG575 God,G2316 thatG2443 they should feedG5142 herG846 thereG1563 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days.G2250

Rev_14:20 AndG2532 theG3588 winepressG3025 was troddenG3961 withoutG1854 theG3588 city,G4172 andG2532 bloodG129 cameG1831 out ofG1537 theG3588 winepress,G3025 even untoG891 theG3588 horseG2462 bridles,G5469 by the space ofG575 a thousand and six hundredG5507 G1812 furlongs.G4712

Rev_20:2 AndG2532 he laid hold onG2902 theG3588 dragon,G1404 that oldG744 serpent,G3789 whichG3739 isG2076 the Devil,G1228 andG2532 Satan,G4567 andG2532 boundG1210 himG846 a thousandG5507 years,G2094

Rev_20:3 AndG2532 castG906 himG846 intoG1519 theG3588 bottomless pit,G12 andG2532 shut him up,G2808 G846 andG2532 set a sealG4972 uponG1883 him,G846 thatG2443 he should deceiveG4105 theG3588 nationsG1484 noG3361 more,G2089 tillG891 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 should be fulfilled:G5055 andG2532 afterG3326 thatG5023 heG846 mustG1163 be loosedG3089 a littleG3398 season.G5550

 

[ewq1938]

Rev_20:4 AndG2532 I sawG1492 thrones,G2362 andG2532 they satG2523 uponG1909 them,G846 andG2532 judgmentG2917 was givenG1325 unto them:G846 andG2532 I saw theG3588 soulsG5590 of them that were beheadedG3990 forG1223 theG3588 witnessG3141 of Jesus,G2424 andG2532 forG1223 theG3588 wordG3056 of God,G2316 andG2532 whichG3748 had notG3756 worshippedG4352 theG3588 beast,G2342 neitherG3777 hisG846 image,G1504 neitherG2532 G3756 had receivedG2983 his markG5480 uponG1909 theirG848 foreheads,G3359 orG2532 inG1909 theirG848 hands;G5495 andG2532 they livedG2198 andG2532 reignedG936 withG3326 ChristG5547 a thousandG5507 years.G2094

Rev_20:5 ButG1161 theG3588 restG3062 of theG3588 deadG3498 lived not againG326 G3756 untilG2193 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 were finished.G5055 ThisG3778 is theG3588 firstG4413 resurrection.G386

Rev_20:6 BlessedG3107 andG2532 holyG40 is he that hathG2192 partG3313 inG1722 theG3588 firstG4413 resurrection:G386 onG1909 suchG5130 theG3588 secondG1208 deathG2288 hathG2192 noG3756 power,G1849 butG235 they shall beG2071 priestsG2409 of GodG2316 andG2532 of Christ,G5547 andG2532 shall reignG936 withG3326 himG846 a thousandG5507 years.G2094

Rev_20:7 AndG2532 whenG3752 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 are expired,G5055 SatanG4567 shall be loosedG3089 out ofG1537 hisG846 prison,G5438

Mar 5:13 AndG2532 forthwithG2112 JesusG2424 gave them leave.G2010 G846 AndG2532 theG3588 uncleanG169 spiritsG4151 went out,G1831 andG2532 enteredG1525 intoG1519 theG3588 swine:G5519 andG2532 theG3588 herdG34 ran violentlyG3729 downG2596 a steep placeG2911 intoG1519 theG3588 sea,G2281 (they(G1161) wereG2258 aboutG5613 two thousand; )G1367 andG2532 were chokedG4155 inG1722 theG3588 sea.G2281

Here we have a Greek word G1367 dischilioi. "Dis" means two or twice and chilioi (G5507) means a thousand so this word means two thousand. Naturally then if there was one chilioi (G5507) it would be exactly a thousand just as it is in every occurrence of the word in the NT.


This is indisputable evidence that the thousand years is exactly a thousand years.



Rev_11:3 AndG2532 I will giveG1325 power unto myG3450 twoG1417 witnesses,G3144 andG2532 they shall prophesyG4395 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days,G2250 clothedG4016 in sackcloth.G4526

G5507 always means exactly one thousand like it does here. To mean more it needs to have more added to it. Here we have G5507 as exactly one thousand and then 260 added to that one thousand. Guess what? If we removed the 260 we have how many? Exactly one thousand, G5507.

So when we have G5507 alone, it is exactly one thousand. And when scripture speaks of "thousands" in the plural it uses chilias G5505 not G5507.

Rev_5:11 AndG2532 I beheld,G1492 andG2532 I heardG191 the voiceG5456 of manyG4183 angelsG32 round aboutG2943 theG3588 throneG2362 andG2532 theG3588 beastsG2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of themG846 wasG2258 ten thousand times ten thousand,G3461 G3461 andG2532 thousands of thousands;G5505 G5505

If Revelation 20's thousand years was thousands of years like Amillennialism claims, the word needed would be chilias G5505 especially the double appearance of the word as found in Revelation 5:11, "thousands of thousands" which is truly an unknown amount. G5507 strictly means only one thousand and no more. It cannot mean 1001, nor an unknown number of thousands or millions etc.

I'll use an example to further explain the difference of the two words.

G5505 is like a thousand dollar bill. There is just one in your hand but it's worth a thousand dollars and the word is written in the singular because of this.

G5507 is like having one thousand dollar bills. That's worth the same exact amount, but it's a plural word because there is a thousand singles of something rather than one thing that equals a thousand. Imagine in your left hand a thousand dollar bill, and in your right hand a thousand one dollar bills. Same amount but the way each amount is represented is different.

5507 is plural in this sense, not that it means more than a thousand or multiples of thousands like 2000. That is not what the plural aspect means but that is how Amillennialism wrongly misdefines it.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Rev_20:4 AndG2532 I sawG1492 thrones,G2362 andG2532 they satG2523 uponG1909 them,G846 andG2532 judgmentG2917 was givenG1325 unto them:G846 andG2532 I saw theG3588 soulsG5590 of them that were beheadedG3990 forG1223 theG3588 witnessG3141 of Jesus,G2424 andG2532 forG1223 theG3588 wordG3056 of God,G2316 andG2532 whichG3748 had notG3756 worshippedG4352 theG3588 beast,G2342 neitherG3777 hisG846 image,G1504 neitherG2532 G3756 had receivedG2983 his markG5480 uponG1909 theirG848 foreheads,G3359 orG2532 inG1909 theirG848 hands;G5495 andG2532 they livedG2198 andG2532 reignedG936 withG3326 ChristG5547 a thousandG5507 years.G2094

Rev_20:5 ButG1161 theG3588 restG3062 of theG3588 deadG3498 lived not againG326 G3756 untilG2193 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 were finished.G5055 ThisG3778 is theG3588 firstG4413 resurrection.G386

Rev_20:6 BlessedG3107 andG2532 holyG40 is he that hathG2192 partG3313 inG1722 theG3588 firstG4413 resurrection:G386 onG1909 suchG5130 theG3588 secondG1208 deathG2288 hathG2192 noG3756 power,G1849 butG235 they shall beG2071 priestsG2409 of GodG2316 andG2532 of Christ,G5547 andG2532 shall reignG936 withG3326 himG846 a thousandG5507 years.G2094

Rev_20:7 AndG2532 whenG3752 theG3588 thousandG5507 yearsG2094 are expired,G5055 SatanG4567 shall be loosedG3089 out ofG1537 hisG846 prison,G5438

Mar 5:13 AndG2532 forthwithG2112 JesusG2424 gave them leave.G2010 G846 AndG2532 theG3588 uncleanG169 spiritsG4151 went out,G1831 andG2532 enteredG1525 intoG1519 theG3588 swine:G5519 andG2532 theG3588 herdG34 ran violentlyG3729 downG2596 a steep placeG2911 intoG1519 theG3588 sea,G2281 (they(G1161) wereG2258 aboutG5613 two thousand; )G1367 andG2532 were chokedG4155 inG1722 theG3588 sea.G2281

Here we have a Greek word G1367 dischilioi. "Dis" means two or twice and chilioi (G5507) means a thousand so this word means two thousand. Naturally then if there was one chilioi (G5507) it would be exactly a thousand just as it is in every occurrence of the word in the NT.


This is indisputable evidence that the thousand years is exactly a thousand years.



Rev_11:3 AndG2532 I will giveG1325 power unto myG3450 twoG1417 witnesses,G3144 andG2532 they shall prophesyG4395 a thousand two hundred and threescoreG5507 G1250 G1835 days,G2250 clothedG4016 in sackcloth.G4526

G5507 always means exactly one thousand like it does here. To mean more it needs to have more added to it. Here we have G5507 as exactly one thousand and then 260 added to that one thousand. Guess what? If we removed the 260 we have how many? Exactly one thousand, G5507.

So when we have G5507 alone, it is exactly one thousand. And when scripture speaks of "thousands" in the plural it uses chilias G5505 not G5507.

Rev_5:11 AndG2532 I beheld,G1492 andG2532 I heardG191 the voiceG5456 of manyG4183 angelsG32 round aboutG2943 theG3588 throneG2362 andG2532 theG3588 beastsG2226 andG2532 theG3588 elders:G4245 andG2532 theG3588 numberG706 of themG846 wasG2258 ten thousand times ten thousand,G3461 G3461 andG2532 thousands of thousands;G5505 G5505

If Revelation 20's thousand years was thousands of years like Amillennialism claims, the word needed would be chilias G5505 especially the double appearance of the word as found in Revelation 5:11, "thousands of thousands" which is truly an unknown amount. G5507 strictly means only one thousand and no more. It cannot mean 1001, nor an unknown number of thousands or millions etc.

I'll use an example to further explain the difference of the two words.

G5505 is like a thousand dollar bill. There is just one in your hand but it's worth a thousand dollars and the word is written in the singular because of this.

G5507 is like having one thousand dollar bills. That's worth the same exact amount, but it's a plural word because there is a thousand singles of something rather than one thing that equals a thousand. Imagine in your left hand a thousand dollar bill, and in your right hand a thousand one dollar bills. Same amount but the way each amount is represented is different.

5507 is plural in this sense, not that it means more than a thousand or multiples of thousands like 2000. That is not what the plural aspect means but that is how Amillennialism wrongly misdefines it.

Are you saying this "thousand generations" is literal?

Psalm 105:6-10
O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.
He is the LORD our God: his judgments are in all the earth.
He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

 

[ewq1938]

Are you saying this "thousand generations" is literal?

No, because that is not written in the Greek language.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Oh, i see, so the Book of Revelation doesn't using phrases from the OT then?

Hint, i already have evidence that it does.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

No, because that is not written in the Greek language.

The debate has been ended with this anyways:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

//The regeneration happens as He sits in The Throne …it doesn’t say, oh by they way, there is a thousand years.

 

[ewq1938]

The debate has been ended with this anyways:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

//The regeneration happens as He sits in The Throne …it doesn’t say, oh by they way, there is a thousand years.

That is a reference to the thousand years. No judging is needed in the eternity since all judgments have been decided. The debate has been ended with this.

 

[Jocund]

Just as 10 and 7 mean Completeness and anytime there are TIMED by the other complete number, or even by TIMED by 12 (Fulness) then God is "EMPHASIZING" Completeness. And since God is ETERNAL, anytime God says a day unto Him is like 1000 years what he is really saying is Hey men on earth, CATCH THE HINT, I am eternal, I live in ALL TIME AT ONCE (Completeness), hence a Day is like a 1000 years because I live in Heaven in the future with you all who came unto Christ RIGHT NOW, I live in the original moment of Creation of the Universe RIGHT NOW, I live in your present-day on earth RIGHT NOW, because I am ETERNAL, and hence a Day is not only like unto a 1000 years (seeing as 10 x 10 x 10 = Completeness x completeness x completeness or ALL ETERNITY) but also like 10,000 years and like 100,000 years and like 10 million years and like 10, billion years !!

If people ever grasp how God uses numbers, their understanding of Prophesy will grow immensely.

God is NOT SUBJECT unto our TIME CONSTRAINTS, that is all He is saying in Psalm 90:4. God CREATED this Universe and its TIME FACTORS for us.

I'm still mulling over all of this. I agree that a figurative 1000 years is a fitting interpretation, and I agree that the time for salvation is now. But I found the use of imagery interesting in the parables and in Psalm 90:4 and it led me to wonder if there was something more that was being said through the references to darkness and night. I presented an interpretation based on an interesting synergy that seems to have different passages all describing parts of the same thing. I presented it more as a tentative musing rather than a tried and tested interpretation. I've read Revelation plenty of times but I still don't consider myself well read on Revelation. I look forward to corrections and insight from my brothers and sisters here.

I like the nature of your premise: an eternal king must have an eternal kingdom and therefore the timeless/eternal kingdom is always present. It is a solid premise. But as a king of kings and therefore a ruler of many kingdoms, other temporal kingdoms may be referenced in some of the passages especially if some kingdoms might exist as a staging ground or proving ground (purification) leading to the eternal kingdom. Scripture tells us that earth and heaven fade away and this may be an indication of their temporal nature. So when the parable of the ten virgins references the kingdom of heaven, it is perhaps speaking about the kingdom of heaven as a kind of temporal kingdom. I don't think that necessarily takes away from the message of the eternal kingdom in itself if that were the case. I'm still contemplating this. Thank you for your reply.

 

[ewq1938]

Oh, i see, so the Book of Revelation doesn't using phrases from the OT then?

Hint, i already have evidence that it does.

That doesn't change that the Greek language has a word for exactly a thousand and a word that means an unknown amount. Revelation 20 uses the word that means exactly a thousand.

 

[Jocund]

That doesn't change that the Greek language has a word for exactly a thousand and a word that means an unknown amount. Revelation 20 uses the word that means exactly a thousand.

I see a literal 1000 years as a valid interpretation. I also still see a figurative 1000 years as valid as well.

I think a word can be used in different senses, if 1000 is literal in one place, it still seems to stand as a possibility that the exact same word could be used figuratively in a different place. Maybe I'm just not seeing something with the nuances of Greek, but the simplest way to disprove the theory "this type of word used for 1000 is always literal" would be to find any other word that is used in one case literally and in another case figuratively. I don't have an example (and maybe there aren't any) but that's the way I would approach testing that theory. I'll have to look more closely at the Greek you've posted, it's a lot of information to go through. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[ewq1938]

I see a literal 1000 years as a valid interpretation. I also still see a figurative 1000 years as valid as well.

Well, The Greek language has a word that is an exact thousand and a word that isn't. There is no guesswork needed. One just has to identify which word is used and I did that for everyone in the post.

I think a word can be used in different senses, if 1000 is literal in one place, it still seems to stand as a possibility that the exact same word could be used figuratively in a different place.

Greek is different than English. If the writer wanted a figurative "thousand" is a word in Greek that could been used.

Maybe I'm just not seeing something with the nuances of Greek, but the simplest way to disprove the theory "this type of word used for 1000 is always literal" would be to find any other word that is used in one case literally and in another case figuratively. I don't have an example (and maybe there aren't any) but that's the way I would approach testing that theory. I'll have to look more closely at the Greek you've posted, it's a lot of information to go through.

Let me know if you want me to address anything in specific. I just joined thread and haven't read the past discussions.