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ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,434
3,684
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#1
Many may not know the name Wayne Grudem or his book The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today; or maybe you do. Apparently it's a popular book in charismatic circles.

Clipboard02.jpg

Grudem's main argument is that New Testament prophets differ from Old Testament prophets in the sense that New Testament prophets aren't always right.
He says God gives true prophecies to the prophet, but since the prophet is a fallible human the message may get lost in transmission. He even gives an example of why Agabus was wrong when he prophesied Paul would be bound and handed over to the Romans in Acts 21. It's a ridiculous idea that can easily be disproven.

But the story doesn't end there. Recently a Prophetic Standards Statement was issued and signed by a group that's made up nearly entirely of people from the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). I'll post a few of the more ridiculous notions and comment on them; but you really have to read the whole thing for yourself to get a sense of how ominous it really is.

"WE RECOGNIZE that prophets do not serve as spiritual fortune tellers or prognosticators, nor is their role to satisfy our curiosity about the future or reveal abstract information." This statement is directly contradicted by other statements that come later. For example: "WE UNDERSTAND that prophecies can be conditional and that many prophecies will take time to come to pass"; and "On the other hand, if a prophetic word is delivered containing specific details and dates in which the stated prophetic word will come to pass and that prophecy contains no conditions to be met in order to be fulfilled, and that word does not come to pass as prophesied, then the one who delivered the word must be willing to take full responsibility, demonstrating genuine contrition before God and people." Sure sounds like prognosticating to me. It continues: "Any statement of apology and/or explanation/clarification should be delivered to the audience to whom the erroneous word was given. For example, if it was given to an individual, the apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be delivered to the individual. If the word was delivered publicly, then a public apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be presented." Notice what it says: the prophet doesn't have to be right, only willing to show genuine contrition. This idea comes directly from Grudem's book.

And there's more, unfortunately:

"Finally, while we believe in holding prophets accountable for their words, in accordance with the Scriptures, we do not believe that a sincere prophet who delivers an inaccurate message is therefore a false prophet." Prophecy falsely? No worries, as long as you're sincere.

"WE REJECT the notion that a contemporary prophetic word is on the same level of inspiration or authority as Scripture or that God always speaks inerrantly through prophets today, since the Bible says we only know in part and prophesy in part (1 Cor. 13:9). It is the written Word alone that can lay claim to being "the Word of God" (2 Tim. 3:16); prophecies, at best, are "a word from the Lord," to be tested by the Word of God." But again this is directly contradicted by their very first statement: "WE BELIEVE that the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including the gift of prophecy and the ministry of the prophet, are essential for the edification of the Body of Christ and the work of the ministry, which is why Scripture exhorts us to earnestly desire spiritual gifts, especially that we may prophesy." So apparently God's word isn't sufficient after all, since prophecy is also "essential." If everything must be tested against God word, what need do we have for prophecy?

"WE RECOGNIZE the unique challenges posed by the internet and social media, as anyone claiming to be a prophet can release a word to the general public without any accountability or even responsibility. While it is not possible to stop the flood of such words online, we urge all believers to check the lives and fruit of those they follow online and also see if they are part of a local church body and have true accountability for their public ministries and personal lives. We also urge prophetic ministers posting unfiltered and untested words purportedly from the Lord to first submit those words to peer leaders for evaluation." The internet poses a serious threat to these false prophets, and so we see their contempt for it.

Throughout the Statement, there's talk of prophets needing to fall under the authority of peer groups and other ministers to have their "prophecies" evaluated.

What this Statement amounts to simply is a power grab by the NAR to tighten its grip on the prophetic community, bringing it under their control; and to recruit new supporters.

A lot of people signed this. Many names are unfamiliar but they have ties to the NAR. You may recognize some of them. Notice Wayne Grudem among them.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
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#2
Any statement of apology and/or explanation/clarification should be delivered to the audience to whom the erroneous word was given. For example, if it was given to an individual, the apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be delivered to the individual. If the word was delivered publicly, then a public apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be presented." Notice what it says: the prophet doesn't have to be right, only willing to show genuine contrition. This idea comes directly from Grudem's book.
It's possible for a prophet to be deceived and/or led astray by demons. This can occur despite the best intentions of the prophet. I agree that the intention of the prophet matters here. There are demons preaching deception using sweet words, clever ideas, things that sound good, but aren't true. Prophets encounter them and those challenges. I know that isn't necessarily a good excuse, but it's a reason why prophets can be wrong.

This is literal:
1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I also might add that 1 Corinthians 14 advises prophets to seek a second and third opinion on their alleged revelation from other church members because prophets can be wrong. This will help weed out potentially false or destructive messages.

If everything must be tested against God word, what need do we have for prophecy?
I believe God will authenticate who He is by appealing to scripture to validate Himself and what His intentions are. Appealing to scriptural authority is a litmus test of sorts. Prophets encounter spirits, it's apparently a crowded world out there in the spiritual world: angels and demons are everywhere.

This is a simple test to get a handle on who or what a prophet is dealing with:
1 John 4:1-3
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Best advice I can give to people with this spiritual gift of prophecy is to be thoroughly grounded in the Word of God before attempting to deliver what you believe is a message from God. I think it's better to hesitate and try to get confirmation before bearing false witness of God or possibly leading someone astray.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
#3
“Grudem's main argument is that New Testament prophets differ from Old Testament prophets in the sense that New Testament prophets aren't always right.”

Run from a man who claims such things. However, in the light of Ephesians 4, prophets are given to the body to build up the body. Primarily, they should be imparting the truth that all believers can hear from the Lord.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,441
3,222
113
#4
Many may not know the name Wayne Grudem or his book The Gift of Prophecy in the New Testament and Today; or maybe you do. Apparently it's a popular book in charismatic circles.

View attachment 233260

Grudem's main argument is that New Testament prophets differ from Old Testament prophets in the sense that New Testament prophets aren't always right.
He says God gives true prophecies to the prophet, but since the prophet is a fallible human the message may get lost in transmission. He even gives an example of why Agabus was wrong when he prophesied Paul would be bound and handed over to the Romans in Acts 21. It's a ridiculous idea that can easily be disproven.

But the story doesn't end there. Recently a Prophetic Standards Statement was issued and signed by a group that's made up nearly entirely of people from the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). I'll post a few of the more ridiculous notions and comment on them; but you really have to read the whole thing for yourself to get a sense of how ominous it really is.

"WE RECOGNIZE that prophets do not serve as spiritual fortune tellers or prognosticators, nor is their role to satisfy our curiosity about the future or reveal abstract information." This statement is directly contradicted by other statements that come later. For example: "WE UNDERSTAND that prophecies can be conditional and that many prophecies will take time to come to pass"; and "On the other hand, if a prophetic word is delivered containing specific details and dates in which the stated prophetic word will come to pass and that prophecy contains no conditions to be met in order to be fulfilled, and that word does not come to pass as prophesied, then the one who delivered the word must be willing to take full responsibility, demonstrating genuine contrition before God and people." Sure sounds like prognosticating to me. It continues: "Any statement of apology and/or explanation/clarification should be delivered to the audience to whom the erroneous word was given. For example, if it was given to an individual, the apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be delivered to the individual. If the word was delivered publicly, then a public apology (and/or explanation/clarification) should be presented." Notice what it says: the prophet doesn't have to be right, only willing to show genuine contrition. This idea comes directly from Grudem's book.

And there's more, unfortunately:

"Finally, while we believe in holding prophets accountable for their words, in accordance with the Scriptures, we do not believe that a sincere prophet who delivers an inaccurate message is therefore a false prophet." Prophecy falsely? No worries, as long as you're sincere.

"WE REJECT the notion that a contemporary prophetic word is on the same level of inspiration or authority as Scripture or that God always speaks inerrantly through prophets today, since the Bible says we only know in part and prophesy in part (1 Cor. 13:9). It is the written Word alone that can lay claim to being "the Word of God" (2 Tim. 3:16); prophecies, at best, are "a word from the Lord," to be tested by the Word of God." But again this is directly contradicted by their very first statement: "WE BELIEVE that the gifts of the Holy Spirit, including the gift of prophecy and the ministry of the prophet, are essential for the edification of the Body of Christ and the work of the ministry, which is why Scripture exhorts us to earnestly desire spiritual gifts, especially that we may prophesy." So apparently God's word isn't sufficient after all, since prophecy is also "essential." If everything must be tested against God word, what need do we have for prophecy?

"WE RECOGNIZE the unique challenges posed by the internet and social media, as anyone claiming to be a prophet can release a word to the general public without any accountability or even responsibility. While it is not possible to stop the flood of such words online, we urge all believers to check the lives and fruit of those they follow online and also see if they are part of a local church body and have true accountability for their public ministries and personal lives. We also urge prophetic ministers posting unfiltered and untested words purportedly from the Lord to first submit those words to peer leaders for evaluation." The internet poses a serious threat to these false prophets, and so we see their contempt for it.

Throughout the Statement, there's talk of prophets needing to fall under the authority of peer groups and other ministers to have their "prophecies" evaluated.

What this Statement amounts to simply is a power grab by the NAR to tighten its grip on the prophetic community, bringing it under their control; and to recruit new supporters.

A lot of people signed this. Many names are unfamiliar but they have ties to the NAR. You may recognize some of them. Notice Wayne Grudem among them.
I'm not NAR or Pentecostal. I do believe that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit are for today.

I agree with the general thrust of Grudem's book. at least what you've quoted. There is a great difference between prophecy as a gift and the ministry and calling of a prophet. I've prophesied something that came to pass. It took 5 years, but it happened. But I am not a prophet.

Christians need discernment. Following the pronouncements of people as if they were infallible is dangerous. It is necessary to test everything purporting to be of God. How do we test? First, we compare it to God's word. If an utterance contradicts God's word, it is false and should be rejected.

I don't know why you conclude that this is an NAR power grab. Testing prophecy should be normal for a church. When I met a man who was a true prophet, I checked out everything he had to say. I'd never met anyone like him and I did not want to be led astray. I was associated with him for about 30 years when he went to be with the Lord.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,434
3,684
113
#5
Best advice I can give to people with this spiritual gift of prophecy is to be thoroughly grounded in the Word of God before attempting to deliver what you believe is a message from God. I think it's better to hesitate and try to get confirmation before bearing false witness of God or possibly leading someone astray.
I'm just curious. If a prophet must be grounded in the word, and not prophecy anything that contradicts God's word, why do we need prophets? Teachers, yeah. But it seems prophecy is irrelevant if it must always conform to God's word. Why not just study God's word? Am I making sense?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#6
I'm just curious. If a prophet must be grounded in the word, and not prophecy anything that contradicts God's word, why do we need prophets? Teachers, yeah. But it seems prophecy is irrelevant if it must always conform to God's word. Why not just study God's word? Am I making sense?
Prophets sometimes can give extra-Biblical revelation or things that are not written in the Bible. That can be used to convert unbelievers, but prophecy isn't just predicting the future. Sometimes it's just telling someone exactly what they need to hear. Prophecy is just a message from God, whatever that message is. Most of the time it is Biblical, but even if it isn't it does not run contrary to scriptures if the message is from God.

Prophecy also is for edification in the church. I have prophesied to believers and prayed with them and they experienced a sign as a result. So it can help enhance the faith of believers.

Believers sometimes struggle to keep a firm grip on their faith because it's just words on paper and haven't actually experienced the power of God, seen miracles, signs, or anything. Someone gifted can help them tremendously. Spiritual gifts are for God's glory ultimately.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
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#7
I'm just curious. If a prophet must be grounded in the word, and not prophecy anything that contradicts God's word, why do we need prophets? Teachers, yeah. But it seems prophecy is irrelevant if it must always conform to God's word. Why not just study God's word? Am I making sense?
“For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭13:10‬ ‭


“The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.”
‭‭Joel‬ ‭3:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:”
‭‭Joel‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Gods message is repetitive and unfolds slowly over long time periods so it’s always going to be carrying the same message of judgement upon persistent wickedness and salvstion unto repentance and righteousness

prophets were saying to same thing in joshuas time as in Peter and Paul’s time preaching of the same things just from various angles

Another aspect of prophecy isn’t to announce what’s coming ahead but also this aspect of being able to understand what’s already there and explain it in a way others can understand it would probably be some other gift

“And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;

and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭13:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

prophecy is very near to revelation in that it’s apocalyptic and sees what’s already there but others don’t see
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,434
3,684
113
#8
These clowns give Matthew 7:15-20, Jeremiah 23:9-40 and Ezekiel 13:23 as their basis for distinguishing between true and false prophets. So let's look at these:

"But beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grape clusters from thorns, or figs from thistles? Thus every good tree produces good fruit, but a corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree cannot produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree not producing good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. Consequently, by their fruits you shall know them."—Matthew 7:15-20

They (that is, the signers of this document), no doubt would say they're the good guys, the true prophets. . .the ones qualified to evaluate and decide who bears good fruit and who doesn't. My only comment is just look at the fruit of some these deceivers and then decide who bears good fruit and who doesn't. Their only problem is they compare themselves by themselves, not God's word.

"Thus says the Lord of hosts:

Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.
They make you worthless;
They speak a vision of their own heart,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
They continually say to those who despise Me,
The Lord has said, You shall have peace;
And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,
No evil shall come upon you."—Jeremiah 23:16-17​

I absolutely agree with this scripture, only the people it's talking about are the NAR false prophets themselves!

And finally:

"Because you have disheartened the righteous with your lies, even though I have caused them no grief, and because you have encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways to save their lives, therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will deliver My people from your hands. Then you will know that I am the Lord."—Ezekiel 23:22-23

Again I totally agree with their choice of scripture. However, they're the liars, they're the ones who haven't encouraged the wicked to turn from their evil ways; but they heartily endorse them.

These people are correct in saying we need to distinguish between true and false prophets; they just don't have the sense to see they're the false prophets.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,434
3,684
113
#9
I don't know why you conclude that this is an NAR power grab.
I've posted on this over and over but you must've either missed it or didn't feel it was worthwhile of consideration.

The NAR are Dominionists. Their motivation is the Seven Mountains Mandate. The end-game is to set up Christ's kingdom now (not wait on Christ to return and set it up Himself). Of course the leadership of this kingdom will be comprised of—you guessed it—the NAR prophets and apostles.

If this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, just look into it, you'll see I'm right.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#10
If a prophet must be grounded in the word, and not prophecy anything that contradicts God's word, why do we need prophets?
This is all about power grabs and ear-tickling. Christians today DO NOT need prophets, neither do they need the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).

"The New Apostolic Reformation, or NAR, is an unbiblical religious movement that emphasizes experience over Scripture, mysticism over doctrine, and modern-day “apostles” over the plain text of the Bible. Of particular distinction in the New Apostolic Reformation are the role and power of spiritual leaders and miracle-workers, the reception of “new” revelations from God, an over-emphasis on spiritual warfare, and a pursuit of cultural and political control in society. The seeking of signs and wonders in the NAR is always accompanied by blatantly false doctrine." GotQuestions.org

New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)
The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is a dominionist movement which asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of Prophet and Apostle. BereanResearch.org

There are neither genuine apostles nor genuine prophets today. So what do we have? Wolves in sheep's clothing.

Also Grudem is a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist. So all of a sudden he is appealing to the Charismatics. What next?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
#11
I've posted on this over and over but you must've either missed it or didn't feel it was worthwhile of consideration.

The NAR are Dominionists. Their motivation is the Seven Mountains Mandate. The end-game is to set up Christ's kingdom now (not wait on Christ to return and set it up Himself). Of course the leadership of this kingdom will be comprised of—you guessed it—the NAR prophets and apostles.

If this sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, just look into it, you'll see I'm right.
If I may: NAR and Dominionists want to use the systems of the world to bring about the Kingdom of God. They seek high offices of influence within the current systems to both legitimize their calling and empower their "ministries". To boil it down: they took the bait that Jesus rejected. Satan tempted Jesus with the rule of the world if He would only bow to him. The Kingdom of God is present now. It is righteous, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. The fact that these men and women claim "Look! There's the Kingdom!" and "Here is the Kingdom!" should be enough warning for those who love the scriptures.

As an aside: The Evangelicals have, by droves, recently leapt into these waters by endorsing Mitt Romney and Trump. Sure, their methods are by proxy, but their goal is still influence within the highest office in the U.S. "for God" ignoring that one man is a Mormon cult member and the other is a serial philanderer and liar. This is the same offer by the same enemy.
 

Vindicator

Active member
Nov 11, 2021
228
71
28
#12
“Grudem's main argument is that New Testament prophets differ from Old Testament prophets in the sense that New Testament prophets aren't always right.”

Run from a man who claims such things. However, in the light of Ephesians 4, prophets are given to the body to build up the body. Primarily, they should be imparting the truth that all believers can hear from the Lord.

I'd agree, provided that this is something the author actually stated. It's a synopsis by a detractor, which always leaves me wondering a little.
These clowns give Matthew 7:15-20, Jeremiah 23:9-40 and Ezekiel 13:23 as their basis for distinguishing between true and false prophets. So let's look at these

Man, I hate to start with this, as this subject matter interests me and I'd prefer talking about it instead, but some things just shout that they need to be addressed. I'm going to have to address you again here frankly and directly. This business of calling people "clowns" and "idiots" is evidence that regardless of the spiritual condition of those you are trying to expose, the Holy Spirit is not speaking through you here. He does not disobey the word of God, and the Lord warned against saying such things of others. You continue to walk in a spirit of contempt and yet fail to see anything wrong with it, which is yet another sign there is a serious problem with you spiritually here.

Step back from worrying about the spiritual condition of others, and focus on yourself. You have let the enemy contaminate your heart, and after reading several of your posts now, it is obvious to anyone reading that he now speaks through you on a regular basis. This will not bring reward from God. Instead you are heading for some form of judgment if you keep giving yourself to a spirit of contempt.

If I could simply address the subject matter here I would, but I would be irresponsible before God if I didn't address what is a far more serous issue. God bless, and sorry but I have no choice if I wish to do right by you spiritually. Simply entertaining debate with you when this would only fill you with even more contempt is not the right course to take in this situation.
Vindicator
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
#13
I'd agree, provided that this is something the author actually stated. It's a synopsis by a detractor, which always leaves me wondering a little.
Oh sure. Since I could not verify it, I spoke in generalities. I've never heard of Wayne Grudem.

But I am familiar with the prophetic in order and out of order. The prophetic out of order can do much damage. The prophetic in order strengthens the Body, are humble servants of the Lord, and never speak out of turn. They work closely with the apostolic and are eager to answer questions people have.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#14
In Revelation we, all, are taught that anyone who bears t the Testimony of Jesus Christ Yeshua also has sthe Spirit of prophecy.

Have all learned what prophecy is? I teaches plainly throughout the Word. Begin anywhere, however the story of Saul prophesying with the group of prophets is a good meditation, although in this instance the spirit came upon him causing his ability.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#15
These clowns give Matthew 7:15-20, Jeremiah 23:9-40 and Ezekiel 13:23 as their basis for distinguishing between true and false prophets. So let's look at these:

"But beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grape clusters from thorns, or figs from thistles? Thus every good tree produces good fruit, but a corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree cannot produce evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree not producing good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. Consequently, by their fruits you shall know them."—Matthew 7:15-20

They (that is, the signers of this document), no doubt would say they're the good guys, the true prophets. . .the ones qualified to evaluate and decide who bears good fruit and who doesn't. My only comment is just look at the fruit of some these deceivers and then decide who bears good fruit and who doesn't. Their only problem is they compare themselves by themselves, not God's word.

"Thus says the Lord of hosts:

Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.
They make you worthless;
They speak a vision of their own heart,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
They continually say to those who despise Me,
The Lord has said, You shall have peace;
And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,
No evil shall come upon you."—Jeremiah 23:16-17​

I absolutely agree with this scripture, only the people it's talking about are the NAR false prophets themselves!

And finally:

"Because you have disheartened the righteous with your lies, even though I have caused them no grief, and because you have encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways to save their lives, therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will deliver My people from your hands. Then you will know that I am the Lord."—Ezekiel 23:22-23

Again I totally agree with their choice of scripture. However, they're the liars, they're the ones who haven't encouraged the wicked to turn from their evil ways; but they heartily endorse them.

These people are correct in saying we need to distinguish between true and false prophets; they just don't have the sense to see they're the false prophets.
are you saying Ezekiel and Jeremiah were false prophets ?

or the false prophets they were speaking about were false prophets ?
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,434
3,684
113
#16
Can you show me what I said that leads you to believe I'm saying Ezekiel and Jeremiah are false prophets? Help me understand how you could take it that way.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#17
Can you show me what I said that leads you to believe I'm saying Ezekiel and Jeremiah are false prophets? Help me understand how you could take it that way.
“Again I totally agree with their choice of scripture. However, they're the liars, they're the ones who haven't encouraged the wicked to turn from their evil ways; but they heartily endorse them.

These people are correct in saying we need to distinguish between true and false prophets; they just don't have the sense to see they're the false prophets.”


I’m just asking who “These people “ are there nothing more I was just trying to understand what you were saying

I guess I wasn’t following the signers of the document terminology
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#20
"These people" are the NAR false prophets.
You could call them spiritual NARwhals. So what do narwhals do? They change color like chameleons. And the NAR false apostles and prophets are the same.