How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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What did I write? "A big part of the harvest of the wicked will be Armageddon and the parable of the tares "
OF COURSE the end times will include the harvest of both the righteous and the wicked.
However, I don't believe the harvesting in chapter 14 is about the church. The church will be in heaven at this time.
OF COURSE the end times will include the harvest of both the righteous and the wicked.
However, I don't believe the harvesting in chapter 14 is about the church. The church will be in heaven at this time.
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John saw the raptured church in heaven as the great crowd too large to number - before any part of the 70th week. That means PRE...
Paul wrote that HIS gathering would come before wrath. Again that means PRE...
HA HA HA! How can there be TWO "second's of anything? First, Second, Third....only ONE (1) second. If there another - and for comings there will be - it will be a THIRD coming. Don't shout me down now saying the bible does not say anything about a "third" coming. Certainly not in so many words, but we all can count. He will come the second time TO THE AIR (and return to heaven: John 14), and the third time TO THE GROUND.
More than one "first" resurrection? John teaches us that there will only and forever be TWO general resurrections: one for all the righteous and one for all of the rest. Both are listed in Rev. 20. John called the first one the "first" (in honor, not in sequence) and the second one he did not title: I call the second one the "second death" resurrection.
Since John's more honorable or chief of resurrections is for all the righteous, logic proves it is not a ONE TIME resurrection but is for all the righteous over all time. Jesus' resurrection was the very first to take part in this chief of resurrections. The church will be next after Jesus (He was the firstfruits). After the church, the 144,000 (probably will be caught up and changed). After the 144,000, the next wave will be the Old Testament saints. John does not tell us, but common sense tells us they must not only be resurrected to caught up to heaven for the marriage and supper. Probably along with the OT saints, the Two Witnesses and the beheaded will be resurrected with them.
Paul wrote that HIS gathering would come before wrath. Again that means PRE...
HA HA HA! How can there be TWO "second's of anything? First, Second, Third....only ONE (1) second. If there another - and for comings there will be - it will be a THIRD coming. Don't shout me down now saying the bible does not say anything about a "third" coming. Certainly not in so many words, but we all can count. He will come the second time TO THE AIR (and return to heaven: John 14), and the third time TO THE GROUND.
More than one "first" resurrection? John teaches us that there will only and forever be TWO general resurrections: one for all the righteous and one for all of the rest. Both are listed in Rev. 20. John called the first one the "first" (in honor, not in sequence) and the second one he did not title: I call the second one the "second death" resurrection.
Since John's more honorable or chief of resurrections is for all the righteous, logic proves it is not a ONE TIME resurrection but is for all the righteous over all time. Jesus' resurrection was the very first to take part in this chief of resurrections. The church will be next after Jesus (He was the firstfruits). After the church, the 144,000 (probably will be caught up and changed). After the 144,000, the next wave will be the Old Testament saints. John does not tell us, but common sense tells us they must not only be resurrected to caught up to heaven for the marriage and supper. Probably along with the OT saints, the Two Witnesses and the beheaded will be resurrected with them.
A pretrib rapture is the truth of scripture.
Case in point? John saw the great crowd, too large to number, in heaven before he saw any part of the 70th week. You don't know that because you don't know where John started the 70th week in Revelation. Neither do you know where Paul's rapture fits in Revelation. HINT: Paul teaches us that his rapture comes before wrath.
Case in point? John saw the great crowd, too large to number, in heaven before he saw any part of the 70th week. You don't know that because you don't know where John started the 70th week in Revelation. Neither do you know where Paul's rapture fits in Revelation. HINT: Paul teaches us that his rapture comes before wrath.
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How funny! NOWHERE does the bible state: "the Lord will post-trib rapture His church."
The very reason people disagree on the timing of the rapture is because God did not write such a verse in such easy to understand words. NOWHERE in Scripture does God say "the rapture will be before/after the 70th week."
What we have is Paul's passages on the rapture. Then we have John in chapter 14 telling us that Jesus has made homes for us, and He will come and get us and take us to the homes He has prepared. The only thing is, that was written to Jews. It fits the Gentile church of today only be extension or extrapolation. Finally we have John who saw the raptured church in heaven in Rev. chapter 7. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus was talking to Jewish men about the end of THEIR age, so He was not talking about Paul's rapture. Did you notice who Paul's rapture passages were pointed to? GENTILES.
Question: why would you assume the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture? It was Jesus talking to Jews about the end of THEIR age - proven by His mention of the abomination in the midst of the week. I think it is a very poor assumption.
The very reason people disagree on the timing of the rapture is because God did not write such a verse in such easy to understand words. NOWHERE in Scripture does God say "the rapture will be before/after the 70th week."
What we have is Paul's passages on the rapture. Then we have John in chapter 14 telling us that Jesus has made homes for us, and He will come and get us and take us to the homes He has prepared. The only thing is, that was written to Jews. It fits the Gentile church of today only be extension or extrapolation. Finally we have John who saw the raptured church in heaven in Rev. chapter 7. In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus was talking to Jewish men about the end of THEIR age, so He was not talking about Paul's rapture. Did you notice who Paul's rapture passages were pointed to? GENTILES.
Question: why would you assume the gathering in Matthew 24 is Paul's rapture? It was Jesus talking to Jews about the end of THEIR age - proven by His mention of the abomination in the midst of the week. I think it is a very poor assumption.
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Who is Jesus talking to in Matthew 24? He is talking to Jewish people about the end of THEIR age? Did you not read?
"his disciples came to him"
" the sign of thy coming " WHICH coming? He is talking about His coming to Armageddon.
"delivering you up to the synagogues" (Luke 21) (The church never met in synagogues. This is JEWISH talk.)
"beginning of sorrows " (Strongs: the pain of childbirth, travail pain, birth pangs)
.....(What is being birthed? The Millennial kingdom!)
"this gospel of the kingdom " This is NOT Paul's gospel. It is preaching of God's kingdom coming on earth.
"the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet "
Again, did you not read?
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
This is without a doubt the verse Jesus was thinking of in Daniel. Notice, "ONE WEEK..."
Keep reading:
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
WHO are these 70 weeks for? The Gentile church of today? NEVER! It is for Daniel's people, the Jews, and it is about JERUSALEM. Why then are you trying to force the Gentile church into Jewish business? It is like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole: WHAM! BANG! I'll MAKE it fit! SMASH!
There is no need to force true doctrine: it will fit every verse. The truth is, the Gentile church will be raptured out before any part of the 70th week because that week is for DANIEL's PEOPLE.
More proof:
Dan 12 - concerning the last half of the 70th week: ...when he shall have accomplished to scatter [breaking in pieces, ]shattering and crushing,] the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. " WHICH "holy people? Of course the JEWS and Hebrews, for it is THEIR week. What is the PURPOSE of the 70th week? It is to CRUSH the power of Israel, the 12 tribes. God's purpose is to bring them to the place where their ONLY HOPE is salvation from God.
Why then are you so determined to insert the Gentile church of today into JEWISH time? IT DOES NOT FIT.
Did you just not understand? God waited for sufficient time after Jesus rose from the dead to see if Israel as a nation would accept their Messiah. They did not, so God then sent Paul to the Gentiles to take from them (the Gentiles) a people for His name. It is as if God inserted the Gentile church of today into Jewish time as a parenthesis. If you study, you will find that Paul's gospel was different than Peter's gospel, and that Paul's gospel was for Gentiles, while Peter was sent to the scattered descendants of Jacob. Did you not read? We, the Gentiles will be judged by PAUL's gospel.
Just to set the record straight, the rapture will be pretrib, so any theory that the rapture is after the trib is the lie.
Finally, I remind you once again, John saw the great crowd, too large to number, BEFORE the trib, not in chapter 19 which is after the trib.
"his disciples came to him"
" the sign of thy coming " WHICH coming? He is talking about His coming to Armageddon.
"delivering you up to the synagogues" (Luke 21) (The church never met in synagogues. This is JEWISH talk.)
"beginning of sorrows " (Strongs: the pain of childbirth, travail pain, birth pangs)
.....(What is being birthed? The Millennial kingdom!)
"this gospel of the kingdom " This is NOT Paul's gospel. It is preaching of God's kingdom coming on earth.
"the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet "
Again, did you not read?
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
This is without a doubt the verse Jesus was thinking of in Daniel. Notice, "ONE WEEK..."
Keep reading:
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
WHO are these 70 weeks for? The Gentile church of today? NEVER! It is for Daniel's people, the Jews, and it is about JERUSALEM. Why then are you trying to force the Gentile church into Jewish business? It is like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole: WHAM! BANG! I'll MAKE it fit! SMASH!
There is no need to force true doctrine: it will fit every verse. The truth is, the Gentile church will be raptured out before any part of the 70th week because that week is for DANIEL's PEOPLE.
More proof:
Dan 12 - concerning the last half of the 70th week: ...when he shall have accomplished to scatter [breaking in pieces, ]shattering and crushing,] the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. " WHICH "holy people? Of course the JEWS and Hebrews, for it is THEIR week. What is the PURPOSE of the 70th week? It is to CRUSH the power of Israel, the 12 tribes. God's purpose is to bring them to the place where their ONLY HOPE is salvation from God.
Why then are you so determined to insert the Gentile church of today into JEWISH time? IT DOES NOT FIT.
Did you just not understand? God waited for sufficient time after Jesus rose from the dead to see if Israel as a nation would accept their Messiah. They did not, so God then sent Paul to the Gentiles to take from them (the Gentiles) a people for His name. It is as if God inserted the Gentile church of today into Jewish time as a parenthesis. If you study, you will find that Paul's gospel was different than Peter's gospel, and that Paul's gospel was for Gentiles, while Peter was sent to the scattered descendants of Jacob. Did you not read? We, the Gentiles will be judged by PAUL's gospel.
Just to set the record straight, the rapture will be pretrib, so any theory that the rapture is after the trib is the lie.
Finally, I remind you once again, John saw the great crowd, too large to number, BEFORE the trib, not in chapter 19 which is after the trib.
It is only YOUR OPINION "revelation is not chronological..." Since John wrote it as we read it, you will have to prove this statement. Good luck on that! No one to date has ever proved it.
The Day of His Coming is the Day of the LORD
Can you prove this with scripture? No, you cannot. It is MYTH. Here is John's Day of the Lord, not your made up Day:
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Note: this is found in Rev. 6, NOT IN Rev. 19 - His coming. That is why what you wrote is MYTH.
God starts THE DAY before He starts the 70th week. In other words, God places the 70th week INSIDE the Day of the Lord, so that ALL of the 70th week comes with His wrath.
Let's back up from a tree so we can see the entire forest: God wanted to show John the book sealed with seals, and over and over emphasized the book over the seals. The book was seen in Rev. 5. The seals opened is in Rev. 6-8. But without any doubt, after all seals are opened then the BOOK is opened. What is inside the book? John does not tell us, but gives us a strong hint that at the very least the trumpet judgments are in the book. I think John leaves us a strong hint that the entire 70th week is written inside the book. If so, then chapters 5 all the way to chapter 16 is about THE BOOK. That is a good portion of Revelation.
Logic tells us it would be impossible for events inside the book to happen before all seals are opened first. I remember one person wrote, "the 7th trumpet is sounded at the 6th seal." He did not understand such a thing would be impossible the way Revelation is written.
His first Coming - One Coming with only Two Outcomes = Eternal Life or Wrath
Second Coming - One Coming with only Two Outcomes = Eternal Life or Wrath
Let's compare what you have written here with what God says:
Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
He came the first time to bear the sins of many. He offered eternal life to those who would believe in Him. After some time God revealed Paul's gospel that in a nutshell is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for salvation for the Gentiles.
He will appear the second time NOT again to pay for sin, but for salvation? What does this mean? Paul used the same word "salvation" in 1 Thes. 5, for those being raptured: they were obtaining "salvation" by being raptured.
I disagree with your second sentence: will there be no hope - only wrath - for those left behind in Paul's pretrib rapture? No. I suspect millions will turn to Jesus after the pretrib rapture but they will have to reject the mark and lose their head. But they will make to to heaven and to the marriage and supper.
2 Thess 2:1-3
A.) Do not believe 'pre-trib rapture lies from anyone - it will not happen until
B.) the 'Falling Away' comes first and
C.) the 'man of sin' - Antichrist
Ah! Another scripture where you lack understanding.
I'll have to cover it in another post.
The Day of His Coming is the Day of the LORD
Can you prove this with scripture? No, you cannot. It is MYTH. Here is John's Day of the Lord, not your made up Day:
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Note: this is found in Rev. 6, NOT IN Rev. 19 - His coming. That is why what you wrote is MYTH.
God starts THE DAY before He starts the 70th week. In other words, God places the 70th week INSIDE the Day of the Lord, so that ALL of the 70th week comes with His wrath.
Let's back up from a tree so we can see the entire forest: God wanted to show John the book sealed with seals, and over and over emphasized the book over the seals. The book was seen in Rev. 5. The seals opened is in Rev. 6-8. But without any doubt, after all seals are opened then the BOOK is opened. What is inside the book? John does not tell us, but gives us a strong hint that at the very least the trumpet judgments are in the book. I think John leaves us a strong hint that the entire 70th week is written inside the book. If so, then chapters 5 all the way to chapter 16 is about THE BOOK. That is a good portion of Revelation.
Logic tells us it would be impossible for events inside the book to happen before all seals are opened first. I remember one person wrote, "the 7th trumpet is sounded at the 6th seal." He did not understand such a thing would be impossible the way Revelation is written.
His first Coming - One Coming with only Two Outcomes = Eternal Life or Wrath
Second Coming - One Coming with only Two Outcomes = Eternal Life or Wrath
Let's compare what you have written here with what God says:
Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
He came the first time to bear the sins of many. He offered eternal life to those who would believe in Him. After some time God revealed Paul's gospel that in a nutshell is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ for salvation for the Gentiles.
He will appear the second time NOT again to pay for sin, but for salvation? What does this mean? Paul used the same word "salvation" in 1 Thes. 5, for those being raptured: they were obtaining "salvation" by being raptured.
I disagree with your second sentence: will there be no hope - only wrath - for those left behind in Paul's pretrib rapture? No. I suspect millions will turn to Jesus after the pretrib rapture but they will have to reject the mark and lose their head. But they will make to to heaven and to the marriage and supper.
2 Thess 2:1-3
A.) Do not believe 'pre-trib rapture lies from anyone - it will not happen until
B.) the 'Falling Away' comes first and
C.) the 'man of sin' - Antichrist
Ah! Another scripture where you lack understanding.
I'll have to cover it in another post.
Continued:
It is an ambiguous passage, for in verse 3, “that day shall not come” was left out by Paul and added by translators. However, the added text seems to fit the contest of the verse. Next, some Greek texts show in verse 2, “the Day of Christ” while other texts have “the Day of the Lord.” We don’t know which term Paul had in mind. Since Paul used “the day of the Lord” in his first letter, I believe that is what Paul wrote here.
Next, it seems as if Paul wrote this passage to conceal his real meaning, not show it clearly. Notice verse six: Paul wrote, “and now you know what withholdeth” (who is restraining). How Paul? How do we (the reader) now know what or who that restraining power is? It must be that Paul just told us but did it in a cloaked way, so the reader would go back and study it. I can only guess that Paul wrote this passage so that if his letter fell into Roman hands they would not understand it. Only those who had his first letter could understand it. It is only a guess.
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thessalonians 2) (Emphasis added.)
Verses 6 through 8 are fairly straightforward. There is a force or power that is holding back or restraining the man of sin, keeping him from being revealed until God’s perfect time. Therefore, the man of sin cannot be revealed when he or Satan behind him imagine it is time; the revealing can only come when God chooses the time and removes the restraining power. This hints strongly that it will be God “taking” the restraining force out of the way. God must have something to do with it. He is the only one who knows the proper time. It is not something that “just happens” such as a falling away.
3 Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition. (1575 Geneva Bible)
(2 Thessalonians 2) (Emphasis added.)
CEB: and the person who is lawless is revealed
CSB: and the man of lawlessness is revealed
EHV: and the man of sin is revealed
ESV: and the man of lawlessness is revealed
(I counted 34 translations that have “is revealed”)
Now, look closely at the last half of verse 3. Notice that in Paul’s argument, the man of sin “is revealed.” (The King James shows “be revealed” but many other translations show “is revealed.”) Verse 4 proves he is revealed (not in reality but in Paul’s argument) because he will then enter the temple and declare to the world that he is God. The question then is, how did the man of sin get revealed in 3b? Verses 6-8 tell us he cannot be revealed until the power restraining him has been taken out of the way.
The obvious answer is, somewhere in the first half of verse 3, the power restraining the man of sin has been “taken out of the way,” and that is why Paul wrote, in verse 6, “and now you know…” Could a “falling away” be God taking the restraining power away? No, because God would have nothing to do with people “falling away.” However, a significant departing or departure (of the church at the rapture) could certainly be something “taken out of the way.”
If we consider Paul’s theme for this passage, His coming, and the gathering, it makes sense that a significant departing would be the rapture or gathering of the church. That would mean that Paul did tell us who the restraining force is: the church, or the Holy Spirit working through the church. This fits God having something to do with the restrainer being taken out of the way. It would also be a very significant departing that all would recognize. The rapture will be God’s doing. And it makes sense that God the Holy Spirit would be the restraining force. He knows the will of God, being a part of God.
Putting it all together, the Thessalonian church was deeply troubled. It seems they had begun to believe that the Day of the Lord had started and they were at that time in it. Apparently, they asked Paul to clarify it. Paul could have said, “no, you are not in the Day of the Lord,” or something similar, but he did not. The question must be asked: why did their believing that the day of the Lord had already come, trouble them? I can only guess because Paul had taught them that the rapture would come first and then the Day of the Lord—as his first letter shows us. That would explain why they were deeply troubled—they may have thought they had missed the rapture.
On the other hand, if they had been taught that the rapture would not come until some unknown time into the Day of the Lord, and when they heard that the day had started and they were now in it, why should that trouble them? They should have been excited, knowing they were getting close to the rapture. Again, Paul could have just written and told them that they had not missed the rapture, but Paul went much deeper.
In short, Paul told them the departing must come first, then, after the departing, if anyone saw the man of sin revealed, they would then know that the Day of the Lord had started and they were in it. I am convinced that Paul wrote, “and now you know,” to cause the reader to back up and read it again, wondering where Paul told them who or what the restrainer was. What is amazing is that there is still much disagreement in the church today as to who or what this restraining power is.
This same order is what John shows us in Revelation: by the time the 7th trumpet sounds, marking the moment the man of sin enters the Holy of Holies in the temple and declares that he is God—the day he is revealed—the Day of the Lord will have already begun and the world is then inside the Day.
Many people mistakenly believe that the Day of the Lord starts with the rapture. Yet every Old Testament passage on the day of the Lord has it starting with wrath and destruction. Many believe that two events must come before the rapture: a great falling away (from what, the passage does not tell us), then the man of sin revealed, and then the rapture (as the Day of the Lord or the Day of Christ).
Some people make fun of pretrib saying something silly like “the rapture cannot come until the rapture comes first.” No, it is the departing that must come first, then the man of sin revealed (because the restrainer has now been “taken out of the way”), and then that day of destruction will begin with God’s wrath behind it. In short, the rapture will trigger the start of the Day.
If you reject all this, you will have to come up with another reason why in 3b the man of sin "IS revealed."
It is an ambiguous passage, for in verse 3, “that day shall not come” was left out by Paul and added by translators. However, the added text seems to fit the contest of the verse. Next, some Greek texts show in verse 2, “the Day of Christ” while other texts have “the Day of the Lord.” We don’t know which term Paul had in mind. Since Paul used “the day of the Lord” in his first letter, I believe that is what Paul wrote here.
Next, it seems as if Paul wrote this passage to conceal his real meaning, not show it clearly. Notice verse six: Paul wrote, “and now you know what withholdeth” (who is restraining). How Paul? How do we (the reader) now know what or who that restraining power is? It must be that Paul just told us but did it in a cloaked way, so the reader would go back and study it. I can only guess that Paul wrote this passage so that if his letter fell into Roman hands they would not understand it. Only those who had his first letter could understand it. It is only a guess.
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thessalonians 2) (Emphasis added.)
Verses 6 through 8 are fairly straightforward. There is a force or power that is holding back or restraining the man of sin, keeping him from being revealed until God’s perfect time. Therefore, the man of sin cannot be revealed when he or Satan behind him imagine it is time; the revealing can only come when God chooses the time and removes the restraining power. This hints strongly that it will be God “taking” the restraining force out of the way. God must have something to do with it. He is the only one who knows the proper time. It is not something that “just happens” such as a falling away.
3 Let no man deceiue you by any meanes for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition. (1575 Geneva Bible)
(2 Thessalonians 2) (Emphasis added.)
CEB: and the person who is lawless is revealed
CSB: and the man of lawlessness is revealed
EHV: and the man of sin is revealed
ESV: and the man of lawlessness is revealed
(I counted 34 translations that have “is revealed”)
Now, look closely at the last half of verse 3. Notice that in Paul’s argument, the man of sin “is revealed.” (The King James shows “be revealed” but many other translations show “is revealed.”) Verse 4 proves he is revealed (not in reality but in Paul’s argument) because he will then enter the temple and declare to the world that he is God. The question then is, how did the man of sin get revealed in 3b? Verses 6-8 tell us he cannot be revealed until the power restraining him has been taken out of the way.
The obvious answer is, somewhere in the first half of verse 3, the power restraining the man of sin has been “taken out of the way,” and that is why Paul wrote, in verse 6, “and now you know…” Could a “falling away” be God taking the restraining power away? No, because God would have nothing to do with people “falling away.” However, a significant departing or departure (of the church at the rapture) could certainly be something “taken out of the way.”
If we consider Paul’s theme for this passage, His coming, and the gathering, it makes sense that a significant departing would be the rapture or gathering of the church. That would mean that Paul did tell us who the restraining force is: the church, or the Holy Spirit working through the church. This fits God having something to do with the restrainer being taken out of the way. It would also be a very significant departing that all would recognize. The rapture will be God’s doing. And it makes sense that God the Holy Spirit would be the restraining force. He knows the will of God, being a part of God.
Putting it all together, the Thessalonian church was deeply troubled. It seems they had begun to believe that the Day of the Lord had started and they were at that time in it. Apparently, they asked Paul to clarify it. Paul could have said, “no, you are not in the Day of the Lord,” or something similar, but he did not. The question must be asked: why did their believing that the day of the Lord had already come, trouble them? I can only guess because Paul had taught them that the rapture would come first and then the Day of the Lord—as his first letter shows us. That would explain why they were deeply troubled—they may have thought they had missed the rapture.
On the other hand, if they had been taught that the rapture would not come until some unknown time into the Day of the Lord, and when they heard that the day had started and they were now in it, why should that trouble them? They should have been excited, knowing they were getting close to the rapture. Again, Paul could have just written and told them that they had not missed the rapture, but Paul went much deeper.
In short, Paul told them the departing must come first, then, after the departing, if anyone saw the man of sin revealed, they would then know that the Day of the Lord had started and they were in it. I am convinced that Paul wrote, “and now you know,” to cause the reader to back up and read it again, wondering where Paul told them who or what the restrainer was. What is amazing is that there is still much disagreement in the church today as to who or what this restraining power is.
This same order is what John shows us in Revelation: by the time the 7th trumpet sounds, marking the moment the man of sin enters the Holy of Holies in the temple and declares that he is God—the day he is revealed—the Day of the Lord will have already begun and the world is then inside the Day.
Many people mistakenly believe that the Day of the Lord starts with the rapture. Yet every Old Testament passage on the day of the Lord has it starting with wrath and destruction. Many believe that two events must come before the rapture: a great falling away (from what, the passage does not tell us), then the man of sin revealed, and then the rapture (as the Day of the Lord or the Day of Christ).
Some people make fun of pretrib saying something silly like “the rapture cannot come until the rapture comes first.” No, it is the departing that must come first, then the man of sin revealed (because the restrainer has now been “taken out of the way”), and then that day of destruction will begin with God’s wrath behind it. In short, the rapture will trigger the start of the Day.
If you reject all this, you will have to come up with another reason why in 3b the man of sin "IS revealed."
Pre-Trib FALSEHOOD ALERT - You said: "John saw the raptured church in Heaven."
Violation of Revelation 22:18-19
Violation of Proverbs 30:5-6
John is seeing the Saints who have died in the Lord as "It is Written" = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
A.) Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed
B.) about those who sleep in death,
C.) so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
D.) For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
E.) we also believe that
F.) God will bring with Jesus
G.) those who have fallen asleep(died) in Him.
Nothing added and nothing taken away from Scripture.
There will be no rapture until the First Resurrection - Revelation chs 19-20
Violation of Revelation 22:18-19
Violation of Proverbs 30:5-6
John is seeing the Saints who have died in the Lord as "It is Written" = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
A.) Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed
B.) about those who sleep in death,
C.) so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
D.) For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
E.) we also believe that
F.) God will bring with Jesus
G.) those who have fallen asleep(died) in Him.
Nothing added and nothing taken away from Scripture.
There will be no rapture until the First Resurrection - Revelation chs 19-20
Did you not read?
Rev. 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
I say this large group is the church, raptured just before wrath (6th seal) as Paul states.
If you don't believe this is the church, can you prove it is not by scripture?
"of all nations:" will the rapture include people of all nations? CHECK!
"of all kindreds:" will the rapture include people of all kindreds? CHECK!
"of all ...people and tongues:" will the rapture include people of all nations? CHECK!
"stood before the throne, and before the Lamb" Will the raptured church stand before the throne and the Lamb? CHECK!
"with white robes:" will the raptured church be given white robes? Without a doubt!
Just think: perhaps 50 generations of believers - billions upon billions of people in one place at one time. The raptured church will be by far the largest group mentioned in Revelation. Just to compare, it would take one person, counting one person every second, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, nearly 130 years to count to ONE billion. No wonder John said too large to count.
OF COURSE there will be a rapture before the timing of Revelation chapter 20 when John mentions the chief of two resurrections.
All the righteous will be a part of this first or chief of resurrections, Jesus included, around 2000 years ago.
Rev. 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
I say this large group is the church, raptured just before wrath (6th seal) as Paul states.
If you don't believe this is the church, can you prove it is not by scripture?
"of all nations:" will the rapture include people of all nations? CHECK!
"of all kindreds:" will the rapture include people of all kindreds? CHECK!
"of all ...people and tongues:" will the rapture include people of all nations? CHECK!
"stood before the throne, and before the Lamb" Will the raptured church stand before the throne and the Lamb? CHECK!
"with white robes:" will the raptured church be given white robes? Without a doubt!
Just think: perhaps 50 generations of believers - billions upon billions of people in one place at one time. The raptured church will be by far the largest group mentioned in Revelation. Just to compare, it would take one person, counting one person every second, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, nearly 130 years to count to ONE billion. No wonder John said too large to count.
OF COURSE there will be a rapture before the timing of Revelation chapter 20 when John mentions the chief of two resurrections.
All the righteous will be a part of this first or chief of resurrections, Jesus included, around 2000 years ago.
Amen, This Is Very Well said!
Absolutely, and, by observing/obeying ALL of God's Bible "study" Rules! Amen?
A great general question to ask here is, Why Did God Say This, instead of God
created the universe? So, with no "silly take," More Specific Contexts Would Be:
God's Context of (earthly) Prophecy/Law contains "the gospel of the kingdom"
(faith PLUS works), with TWO Prophesied Comings, "ALL the way to Earth!"
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
God's Context Of (Heavenly) MYSTERY contains "The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
(GRACE Through faith), With "A MYSTERY (UNprophesied) Coming, "in the air!"
With these Biblical Facts in mind, we should now ask, Can God Execute BOTH of
HIS Programs Simultaneously? Does God Offer GRACE and Execute Judgment at
the SAME Time? ie:
Today, The Body Of CHRIST, According To The Revelation Of The MYSTERY,
The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God, And, This Dispensation ENDS, * (God
"Recalling HIS ambassadors BEFORE "Declaring JUDGMENT On an
UNbelieving world), With our
Pre - TOJT Great GRACE Departure To Heaven, and...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
...After our Great GRACE Departure To Heaven, God, Will Resume HIS Prophetic
Program
* I believe this Must Be BEFORE "the first seal/anti christ" since they are
part and parcel of Prophecy/JUDGMENT, and Not of MYSTERY/GRACE!
to be continued...
Absolutely, and, by observing/obeying ALL of God's Bible "study" Rules! Amen?
A great general question to ask here is, Why Did God Say This, instead of God
created the universe? So, with no "silly take," More Specific Contexts Would Be:
God's Context of (earthly) Prophecy/Law contains "the gospel of the kingdom"
(faith PLUS works), with TWO Prophesied Comings, "ALL the way to Earth!"
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
God's Context Of (Heavenly) MYSTERY contains "The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
(GRACE Through faith), With "A MYSTERY (UNprophesied) Coming, "in the air!"
With these Biblical Facts in mind, we should now ask, Can God Execute BOTH of
HIS Programs Simultaneously? Does God Offer GRACE and Execute Judgment at
the SAME Time? ie:
Today, The Body Of CHRIST, According To The Revelation Of The MYSTERY,
The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God, And, This Dispensation ENDS, * (God
"Recalling HIS ambassadors BEFORE "Declaring JUDGMENT On an
UNbelieving world), With our
Pre - TOJT Great GRACE Departure To Heaven, and...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
...After our Great GRACE Departure To Heaven, God, Will Resume HIS Prophetic
Program
* I believe this Must Be BEFORE "the first seal/anti christ" since they are
part and parcel of Prophecy/JUDGMENT, and Not of MYSTERY/GRACE!
to be continued...
Precious friend, this Scriptural Evidence may be of some help -
for your Prayerful/Careful Consideration:
Part I
God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming, is found in God's Context:
God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)
God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)
God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
Great GRACE Departure!
Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:
God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)
God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)
God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:
(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)
(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)
(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)
(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)
(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)
(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)
to be continued...
for your Prayerful/Careful Consideration:
Part I
God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With
The Second Coming, is found in God's Context:
God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)
God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)
God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
Great GRACE Departure!
Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:
God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)
God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)
God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)
-------------------
The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:
(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)
(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)
(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army, * “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)
(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)
(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)
(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)
to be continued...
God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:
Part II
God's Prophetic Program, and second earthly coming
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:
(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)
3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)
(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)
(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)
(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)
(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)
* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
More Rightly Divided "studies":
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
Please Be Richly Encouraged In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
and in HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! Amen.
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑
Part II
God's Prophetic Program, and second earthly coming
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:
(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)
3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)
(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)
(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)
(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)
(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)
* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
More Rightly Divided "studies":
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!
Please Be Richly Encouraged In The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
and in HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! Amen.
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑
When I say "Second Coming", I am referring to the second time He touches down on Earth. I agree that Jesus will have already came into clouds seven years prior to fulfill the Rapture.
Thank you so much for all your previous posts which are so clear, concise, and Biblically correct.
One question - Do you believe we, the Church, will accompany those clothed in clean white linen as He comes back down to establish His Millennial Reign? (You referred to His army as angels).
Thank you so much for all your previous posts which are so clear, concise, and Biblically correct.
One question - Do you believe we, the Church, will accompany those clothed in clean white linen as He comes back down to establish His Millennial Reign? (You referred to His army as angels).