When the Lord told us that He was changing something as in Jeremiah 31:31 the Lord said what he changed was the way he communicated with us. The Lord had communicated by rules in stone that were eternal but without heart, and now God said he would communicate directly to our hearts. Christ explained how this worked in the sermon on the mount.
Galatians 3:10 vs. Psalm 119:1
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When I respond to people's posts, I am not necessarily disagreeing with them. And my purpose in posting is not always to correct an individual.
It is my desire to post sound doctrine concerning things that are posted.
What is sound may be in perfect agreement with what has been posted; or it may be slightly different so that the post that I make is not a correction or a disagreement. But something that hones in on the truth of the matter so that it can be more refined in the eyes and ears of those who are looking on.
It is my desire to post sound doctrine concerning things that are posted.
What is sound may be in perfect agreement with what has been posted; or it may be slightly different so that the post that I make is not a correction or a disagreement. But something that hones in on the truth of the matter so that it can be more refined in the eyes and ears of those who are looking on.
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yeah before his testament went into effect
“For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
Hebrews 9:17
When Jesus died and rose having shed the blood of the new covenant word his words became the words of requirement and judgement forever
how do the law folks get last the fact that Moses and Jesus taught opposite commands at so many points ?
a simple question whos word do you obey Moses words or Jesus words when they often clash d say contrary things ? Who has the authority ? What Moses said in the law what Jesus said in the gospel ?
is divorce and re marriage perfectly acceptable practice for I happily married people like Moses said ? Or is it what Jesus said when he came preaching the gospel ? Who’s word is the word Christians keep ?
how do we treat other sinners like Moses said witness against them and the. Father Time stone them To death at the law ?
or do we forgive other sinners when they wrong us and pardon transgressions forgive and forget like Jesus taught ?
is it okay to do good on a sabbath day like Jesus taught ? Or Will picking up firewood get you killed like Moses said ?
why is it opposite ?
“For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.”
Hebrews 9:17
When Jesus died and rose having shed the blood of the new covenant word his words became the words of requirement and judgement forever
how do the law folks get last the fact that Moses and Jesus taught opposite commands at so many points ?
a simple question whos word do you obey Moses words or Jesus words when they often clash d say contrary things ? Who has the authority ? What Moses said in the law what Jesus said in the gospel ?
is divorce and re marriage perfectly acceptable practice for I happily married people like Moses said ? Or is it what Jesus said when he came preaching the gospel ? Who’s word is the word Christians keep ?
how do we treat other sinners like Moses said witness against them and the. Father Time stone them To death at the law ?
or do we forgive other sinners when they wrong us and pardon transgressions forgive and forget like Jesus taught ?
is it okay to do good on a sabbath day like Jesus taught ? Or Will picking up firewood get you killed like Moses said ?
why is it opposite ?
I have already answered this on a few occasions.
Phl 3:1, Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Moses gave a civil law that applied to how the government ought to treat sinners.
Jesus gave a moral relevance to that which applies to individuals and how we personally obey the principles that would bring condemnation or death if we were to violate those principles according to Moses' law.
An example of this is that it is written that we ought to love our neighbor as ourselves.
So, when, in the civil law, it is written that an eye shall be for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, that is not justifying us taking revenge in a vigilante manner. For that is speaking of justice that shall be meted out by the government.
"Love thy neighbor as thyself" requires that we not retaliate when others seek to attack or harm us but to turn the other cheek.
This is even possible when the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart (Romans 5:5).
Phl 3:1, Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
Moses gave a civil law that applied to how the government ought to treat sinners.
Jesus gave a moral relevance to that which applies to individuals and how we personally obey the principles that would bring condemnation or death if we were to violate those principles according to Moses' law.
An example of this is that it is written that we ought to love our neighbor as ourselves.
So, when, in the civil law, it is written that an eye shall be for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, that is not justifying us taking revenge in a vigilante manner. For that is speaking of justice that shall be meted out by the government.
"Love thy neighbor as thyself" requires that we not retaliate when others seek to attack or harm us but to turn the other cheek.
This is even possible when the love of the Lord is shed abroad in the heart (Romans 5:5).
yes exactly Old Testament and new
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”
Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV
sort of shows the point the book of Hebrews makes a clear separation between Moses words ordained of angels , and the Gospel spoken by the son of God who is one with God. That’s a good point the ot came through angels like this
“And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.”
Exodus 3:2 KJV
God is speaking through the angels presence to Moses.
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
The unforgiving angel was judging the people by the law.
but Gods word isn’t the same
“I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.”
Isaiah 43:25
my point to you has been all along the law is not the same as the gospel it’s different words , through a different mediator under the ordainment of the angels. But the gospel is just God speaking to the people through Christ who is one with him it’s God speaking , Gods mercy and true judgements promised later all along
Moses said it in his law
“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.”
Acts 3:22-23 KJV
that’s Moses in the law ( Deuteronomy 18:15-18) saying clearly “ there’s another coming after me a prophet resembling me he will speak Gods word that is required . Whoever will not hear his words will be destroyed from the people “
Moses isn’t saying “ my law is the law that this other prophet will
Speak he’s saying that other prophet will speak Gods word
I don’t think some law folks can come to terms with the truth that the law is born because and came as a result of transgression , is a harness and yoke for sinners , it was ordained of angels because they worshipped the false god of Aaron’s the high priests making
and the people begged not to hear Gods word anymore and pleaded for
Moses to Be thier mediator and judge between they and God. Moses law is not actually Gods word he gave the people under angels disposition and gave the angels authority over them and angels ordained and Moses mediated the law specifically to abrams bloodline and any strangers who converted to the law
it doesn’t offer the same things Jesus words do it simply is not the new covenant it is old only because Christ fulfilled the prophecies and figures in its
Pattern and spoke the new and then he died and rose making his words stand forever
this is just what the prophets said would happen the law of God wasn’t yet given it was being foretold that he would come as a man and speak his own words
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
That’s generations after this law
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
Galatians 3:19-20 KJV
That’s a true thing there When he was writing the Ten Commandments for Moses they made a golden calf and gave it the glory for rescuing and delivering them. As the true and only God had done and gave them the first commandment to have no other gods and bow down and worship and give it his glory
at that point God decided to
Totally destroy them all but to start another people through Moses and carry on Abraham’s promise through him . But rather Moses pleaded with God and saved the people from His wrath. Moses then carried out his judgement on them Slaughtering one another until 3000 we’re dead and making them Drink the order he ground them idol into
then he returns to God for further intercession and says “ if you will not forgive them lord cast me out also “ but because of Moses intercession for the people God soared them
but he also left angels as his representatives to speak
For the lord and judge the people. It was the disposition of angels that makes the law sound like it does unforgiving because they were the ordainers of it after the people transgressed with the calf God handed them over to angels and they received a law ordained of angels and mediated by Moses
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?……
……Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
Acts 7:41-42, 53 KJV
That’s a true thing there God fave then over to worship angels because they kept worshipping the false fake gods of Egypt this makes the law dofferent and contrary and for the opposite purpose of making sinners know thier guilt and condemnation
once the law brings one to Jesus TV he move into his words and leave the accusations behind
“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”
Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV
sort of shows the point the book of Hebrews makes a clear separation between Moses words ordained of angels , and the Gospel spoken by the son of God who is one with God. That’s a good point the ot came through angels like this
“And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.”
Exodus 3:2 KJV
God is speaking through the angels presence to Moses.
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21 KJV
The unforgiving angel was judging the people by the law.
but Gods word isn’t the same
“I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.”
Isaiah 43:25
my point to you has been all along the law is not the same as the gospel it’s different words , through a different mediator under the ordainment of the angels. But the gospel is just God speaking to the people through Christ who is one with him it’s God speaking , Gods mercy and true judgements promised later all along
Moses said it in his law
“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.”
Acts 3:22-23 KJV
that’s Moses in the law ( Deuteronomy 18:15-18) saying clearly “ there’s another coming after me a prophet resembling me he will speak Gods word that is required . Whoever will not hear his words will be destroyed from the people “
Moses isn’t saying “ my law is the law that this other prophet will
Speak he’s saying that other prophet will speak Gods word
I don’t think some law folks can come to terms with the truth that the law is born because and came as a result of transgression , is a harness and yoke for sinners , it was ordained of angels because they worshipped the false god of Aaron’s the high priests making
and the people begged not to hear Gods word anymore and pleaded for
Moses to Be thier mediator and judge between they and God. Moses law is not actually Gods word he gave the people under angels disposition and gave the angels authority over them and angels ordained and Moses mediated the law specifically to abrams bloodline and any strangers who converted to the law
it doesn’t offer the same things Jesus words do it simply is not the new covenant it is old only because Christ fulfilled the prophecies and figures in its
Pattern and spoke the new and then he died and rose making his words stand forever
this is just what the prophets said would happen the law of God wasn’t yet given it was being foretold that he would come as a man and speak his own words
“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people. My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.”
Isaiah 51:4-5 KJV
That’s generations after this law
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
Galatians 3:19-20 KJV
That’s a true thing there When he was writing the Ten Commandments for Moses they made a golden calf and gave it the glory for rescuing and delivering them. As the true and only God had done and gave them the first commandment to have no other gods and bow down and worship and give it his glory
at that point God decided to
Totally destroy them all but to start another people through Moses and carry on Abraham’s promise through him . But rather Moses pleaded with God and saved the people from His wrath. Moses then carried out his judgement on them Slaughtering one another until 3000 we’re dead and making them Drink the order he ground them idol into
then he returns to God for further intercession and says “ if you will not forgive them lord cast me out also “ but because of Moses intercession for the people God soared them
but he also left angels as his representatives to speak
For the lord and judge the people. It was the disposition of angels that makes the law sound like it does unforgiving because they were the ordainers of it after the people transgressed with the calf God handed them over to angels and they received a law ordained of angels and mediated by Moses
“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?……
……Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
Acts 7:41-42, 53 KJV
That’s a true thing there God fave then over to worship angels because they kept worshipping the false fake gods of Egypt this makes the law dofferent and contrary and for the opposite purpose of making sinners know thier guilt and condemnation
once the law brings one to Jesus TV he move into his words and leave the accusations behind
It is my understanding that Moses was of God and Jesus is of God, and God does not disagree with God.
Christ brought about a big change, but that change was in the way scripture communicates with us. Under the old covenant God communicated through fleshly type commands like cutting flesh and stoning. Under the new covenant God communicated his law through the heart with the love that is the base of every command made by the Lord in all scripture.
We are to be able to read the OT through the eyes of the new covenant, seeing the love and heart of the commands.
Christ brought about a big change, but that change was in the way scripture communicates with us. Under the old covenant God communicated through fleshly type commands like cutting flesh and stoning. Under the new covenant God communicated his law through the heart with the love that is the base of every command made by the Lord in all scripture.
We are to be able to read the OT through the eyes of the new covenant, seeing the love and heart of the commands.
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If you make your posts about half as long we might be more inclined to read through the whole of your posts.
As it is, I only read through to the first half of your post.
And my response is that Jesus came to "magnify the law and make it honourable" (Isaiah 42:21)...
In Matthew 5:17-20 He told us that one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law until after "heaven and earth pass away" and that we will be called great in the kingdom if we obey and teach the least of the commandments that are found written in the Old Testament.
As it is, I only read through to the first half of your post.
And my response is that Jesus came to "magnify the law and make it honourable" (Isaiah 42:21)...
In Matthew 5:17-20 He told us that one jot or tittle shall in no wise pass from the law until after "heaven and earth pass away" and that we will be called great in the kingdom if we obey and teach the least of the commandments that are found written in the Old Testament.
“Christ brought about a big change, but that change was in the way scripture communicates with us.”
I couldn’t agree more let’s examine how scripture states it
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
Galatians 5:1-4
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:18
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
Romans 6:3 KJV
“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:1, 4-6 KJV
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Romans 6:14 KJV
“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
1 Corinthians 15:56 KJV
what’s the laws purpose and place then ? Was it permanent ?
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law,
shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” ( the law )
Galatians 3:19, 23-25 KJV
the law of Moses isn’t for Christians it’s meant to bring people to the gospel so they can be saved once the law does this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
then they can come to the word of faith without ( seperate from ) the law
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21 KJV
Which is this purpose note that it heals what the law decrees . imputation of sin and guilt before God v repentance and remission of sins in the gospel being preached that’s how opposite it is one is to Make guilty the other to cleanse and make free and approved
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:46-47 KJV
the law brings condemnation and awareness of guilt to sinners and then Christ says to those sinners “ repent and turn to me in faith and I will forget all
Your sins forever and give you eternal all life with me in my kingdom that is only seen by faith in what I preached my everlasting kingdom “
You are defining Moses law like you want to and then making arguments as if that’s how scripture defines it only certain parts being applied but that’s not what scripture does
“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
Joshua 8:34-35 KJV
that’s everything Moses commanded them tha the the law of Moses the Old Testament law.
just like for Christians of all nations Abraham’s children , it’s everything Jesus commanded them
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
That’s what the law of Moses was for israel it was thier law ordained of angels , and governed over by Moses for the people . The relationship is God , the unforgiving angel Left in authority which is in a few posts now in scripture and his disposition of never forgive sin then Moses and his frustrations and anger against the constantly rebelling people
then Finally the people who begged and pleaded not to hear Gods word and he agreed and promised that Jesus would come later as one of them and speak
It and they would all have to hear him .
Moses law is true no ones arguing that , you aren’t hearing what the laws purpose is though and that it cannot justify or Save anybody our mediator is Jesus our lawgiver is Jesus our good shepherd is Jesus and our lamb of atonement and also Passover is Jesus our high priest is Jesus everything the law offered is foind in what scripture says Jesus fulfilled Hebrews is an awesome read
to not grasp the seperation causes a lot of issues
nd not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;
which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV
when the issue arose early on “ do Christians obey Moses law ? They all got together to decide “ no it’s a yoke we could never bear why out it on the disciples necks also ? “
“Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.”
Acts 15:10-11, 23-24, 28-29, 41 KJV
read acts 15 and ask yourself if Moses law is part of Christian doctrine or if it’s actually an un needed yoke to at worth’s down even the most zealous religious person who never kept it according to Peter and the rest of scripture it’s a yoke and bondage a curse for sinners to judge themselves by right and wrong it’s holy and good but now it’s fulfilled and we have the truth of Christ
I couldn’t agree more let’s examine how scripture states it
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
Galatians 5:1-4
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:18
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
Romans 6:3 KJV
“Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
….Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;
that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:1, 4-6 KJV
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Romans 6:14 KJV
“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
1 Corinthians 15:56 KJV
what’s the laws purpose and place then ? Was it permanent ?
“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,
till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;
and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law,
shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.” ( the law )
Galatians 3:19, 23-25 KJV
the law of Moses isn’t for Christians it’s meant to bring people to the gospel so they can be saved once the law does this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
then they can come to the word of faith without ( seperate from ) the law
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
Romans 3:21 KJV
Which is this purpose note that it heals what the law decrees . imputation of sin and guilt before God v repentance and remission of sins in the gospel being preached that’s how opposite it is one is to Make guilty the other to cleanse and make free and approved
“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:46-47 KJV
the law brings condemnation and awareness of guilt to sinners and then Christ says to those sinners “ repent and turn to me in faith and I will forget all
Your sins forever and give you eternal all life with me in my kingdom that is only seen by faith in what I preached my everlasting kingdom “
You are defining Moses law like you want to and then making arguments as if that’s how scripture defines it only certain parts being applied but that’s not what scripture does
“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
Joshua 8:34-35 KJV
that’s everything Moses commanded them tha the the law of Moses the Old Testament law.
just like for Christians of all nations Abraham’s children , it’s everything Jesus commanded them
“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
That’s what the law of Moses was for israel it was thier law ordained of angels , and governed over by Moses for the people . The relationship is God , the unforgiving angel Left in authority which is in a few posts now in scripture and his disposition of never forgive sin then Moses and his frustrations and anger against the constantly rebelling people
then Finally the people who begged and pleaded not to hear Gods word and he agreed and promised that Jesus would come later as one of them and speak
It and they would all have to hear him .
Moses law is true no ones arguing that , you aren’t hearing what the laws purpose is though and that it cannot justify or Save anybody our mediator is Jesus our lawgiver is Jesus our good shepherd is Jesus and our lamb of atonement and also Passover is Jesus our high priest is Jesus everything the law offered is foind in what scripture says Jesus fulfilled Hebrews is an awesome read
to not grasp the seperation causes a lot of issues
nd not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;
which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV
when the issue arose early on “ do Christians obey Moses law ? They all got together to decide “ no it’s a yoke we could never bear why out it on the disciples necks also ? “
“Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.”
Acts 15:10-11, 23-24, 28-29, 41 KJV
read acts 15 and ask yourself if Moses law is part of Christian doctrine or if it’s actually an un needed yoke to at worth’s down even the most zealous religious person who never kept it according to Peter and the rest of scripture it’s a yoke and bondage a curse for sinners to judge themselves by right and wrong it’s holy and good but now it’s fulfilled and we have the truth of Christ
yeah that may be the problem pretty complex subject and if you aren’t even reading the post but still responding might be why it’s going no where
honestly I don’t see the benefit in continuing with arguing about whether the Old Testament law of isreals children
through Moses is New Testament doctrine in Christ for all nations so you can explain to others why the gospel isn’t enough and why Moses words somehow apply I already understand honestly that Moses covenant law was fulfilled that’s why Jerusalem was destroyed in ad 70 and have no temple today still it became a curse
but we have the gospel I’ve sort of said everything I have to say it’s not a simple thing because you don’t seem to want to accept the simplicity of it
If I just quote a couple scriptures you explain it away if I’m thorough you tell
Me it’s too long so I’m really not clever enough to figure out another approach I tried this kind
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
Galatians 3:10 KJV
And then added ones like this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
but then you just explain reasoning why those aren’t true or don’t mean what they say so I’m out of options and thanks for the discussion time brother
honestly I don’t see the benefit in continuing with arguing about whether the Old Testament law of isreals children
through Moses is New Testament doctrine in Christ for all nations so you can explain to others why the gospel isn’t enough and why Moses words somehow apply I already understand honestly that Moses covenant law was fulfilled that’s why Jerusalem was destroyed in ad 70 and have no temple today still it became a curse
but we have the gospel I’ve sort of said everything I have to say it’s not a simple thing because you don’t seem to want to accept the simplicity of it
If I just quote a couple scriptures you explain it away if I’m thorough you tell
Me it’s too long so I’m really not clever enough to figure out another approach I tried this kind
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”
Galatians 3:10 KJV
And then added ones like this
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
but then you just explain reasoning why those aren’t true or don’t mean what they say so I’m out of options and thanks for the discussion time brother
Of course there is a blessing on those who look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it (James 1:25); however this is qualified by the fact that those who seek to be justified by the law are under a curse.
And therefore, James 1:25 is speaking of a blessing on those who know that they have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ...thus they are not seeking to be justified by the law and therefore they are not under the curse of Galatians 3:10...but they have been set free to receive the blessing of James 1:25.
As concerning Romans 3:19-20, it is qualified by Romans 6:14. Christians are not under the law but under grace; and therefore what the law says to those who are under it, it does not say to Christians. Romans 3:10-18 does not apply to the one who believes in Christ; it only applies to the unbelieving world (including Gentiles).
I do believe that scripture interprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)) and that therefore when we are looking at the scriptures, we can gain added insight into what they mean by applying other scriptures to the equation.
I would never explain with reasoning why a scripture isn't true because I believe that every scripture (every singular verse) stands on its own as a bastion of truth.
However, I do believe that we can gain added insight into what the scriptures are teaching us when we apply other scripture to what we are looking at. It may give us a different perspective that we didn't see before.
And therefore, James 1:25 is speaking of a blessing on those who know that they have been justified through faith in the blood of Christ...thus they are not seeking to be justified by the law and therefore they are not under the curse of Galatians 3:10...but they have been set free to receive the blessing of James 1:25.
As concerning Romans 3:19-20, it is qualified by Romans 6:14. Christians are not under the law but under grace; and therefore what the law says to those who are under it, it does not say to Christians. Romans 3:10-18 does not apply to the one who believes in Christ; it only applies to the unbelieving world (including Gentiles).
I do believe that scripture interprets scripture (1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)) and that therefore when we are looking at the scriptures, we can gain added insight into what they mean by applying other scriptures to the equation.
I would never explain with reasoning why a scripture isn't true because I believe that every scripture (every singular verse) stands on its own as a bastion of truth.
However, I do believe that we can gain added insight into what the scriptures are teaching us when we apply other scripture to what we are looking at. It may give us a different perspective that we didn't see before.
lol exactly that’s true sin is transgression of Moses law and this also is true
“For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
Romans 4:13-15 KJV
that’s right it’s about remission of sin and sin is transgression of the law. So therefore
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:18
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Romans 6:14 KJV
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
Galatians 4:4-5 KJV
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Galatians 3:23-25 KJV
Are you catching my drift ? Your right sin is transgression of Moses law yet Christians already died for transgression of the law in Christ through baptism so what does Moses law say to someone who’s dead because of sin ?
it says nothing to the dead person it ends when they die the last word of the law is you must surely be put to death
and Jesus stepped in and now we are dead to the law
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:4-6
we actually had to be saved from the law because mankind was condemned to death under it. So Jesus took that condemnation and we all died to the law who believe
when you die to the law that defines sin then your dead to the law that defines sin and you belong now to the doctrine about eternal Life after one dies which is the subject of the gospel
it’s hard to discuss when people are dug in but to say transgression of the law is sin doesn’t really address anything we’re talking about ues it’s transgression of the law but yes Christians have all died already because of the law
“For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”
Galatians 2:19-21 KJV
For a chrirtian to die through baptism and be set free from Moses law of sin and death and then go back to the same law meant to condemn someone only proves the law is for them it proves they are drawn to the law of sin and need to die To it
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
Christian doctrine is based solely and completely on what Jesus taught and his disciples wot eased in the epistles one of those principles is that the old law of Moses is fulfilled for Christians and they walk after the gospel now which doesn’t condemn us but teaches us righteousness and freedom from sin
“For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
Romans 4:13-15 KJV
that’s right it’s about remission of sin and sin is transgression of the law. So therefore
“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Galatians 5:18
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
Romans 6:14 KJV
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
Galatians 4:4-5 KJV
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
Galatians 3:23-25 KJV
Are you catching my drift ? Your right sin is transgression of Moses law yet Christians already died for transgression of the law in Christ through baptism so what does Moses law say to someone who’s dead because of sin ?
it says nothing to the dead person it ends when they die the last word of the law is you must surely be put to death
and Jesus stepped in and now we are dead to the law
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:4-6
we actually had to be saved from the law because mankind was condemned to death under it. So Jesus took that condemnation and we all died to the law who believe
when you die to the law that defines sin then your dead to the law that defines sin and you belong now to the doctrine about eternal Life after one dies which is the subject of the gospel
it’s hard to discuss when people are dug in but to say transgression of the law is sin doesn’t really address anything we’re talking about ues it’s transgression of the law but yes Christians have all died already because of the law
“For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”
Galatians 2:19-21 KJV
For a chrirtian to die through baptism and be set free from Moses law of sin and death and then go back to the same law meant to condemn someone only proves the law is for them it proves they are drawn to the law of sin and need to die To it
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
1 Timothy 1:9-10 KJV
Christian doctrine is based solely and completely on what Jesus taught and his disciples wot eased in the epistles one of those principles is that the old law of Moses is fulfilled for Christians and they walk after the gospel now which doesn’t condemn us but teaches us righteousness and freedom from sin
the perfect law of Liberty isn’t Moses law it’s the gospel
“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:12-13 KJV
James is explaining that one sin against the law means all have broken the same law so we’re supposed to act and live and be judged by the law of mercy for the merciful from the gospel
James is saying live by this law since we’ve all sinned and become transgressors
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38
to equate Moses law to Liberty reveals how not separating the two covenants causes confusion Moses law is always referred to as bondage and a yoke but Jesus doctrine promises liberty
This is the law of freedom
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
James was explaining we need to live as though the gospel will judge us because it will
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
We’re going to be judged by Jesus word of freedom not moses word of bondage is James point be merciful because all
Of us have sinned
“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
James 2:12-13 KJV
James is explaining that one sin against the law means all have broken the same law so we’re supposed to act and live and be judged by the law of mercy for the merciful from the gospel
James is saying live by this law since we’ve all sinned and become transgressors
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38
to equate Moses law to Liberty reveals how not separating the two covenants causes confusion Moses law is always referred to as bondage and a yoke but Jesus doctrine promises liberty
This is the law of freedom
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
John 8:31-32 KJV
James was explaining we need to live as though the gospel will judge us because it will
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
John 12:48-50 KJV
We’re going to be judged by Jesus word of freedom not moses word of bondage is James point be merciful because all
Of us have sinned
I am in agreement with you that we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation...
However, as concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21)...
The law is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
Inasmuch as the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) is the fulfilling of righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).
However, as concerning obedience, we are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21)...
The law is written on the hearts and minds of New Covenant believers (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).
Inasmuch as the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5) and this love, being not impractical (1 John 3:17-18) is the fulfilling of righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 8:4).
James, in James 2:10-12, speaks of the fact that two of the ten commandments are included in what he defined as the law of liberty.
Jas 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
My conclusion is that the law of liberty is the ten commandments, or that, at the very least, the ten commandments are included in the law of liberty.
Jas 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
My conclusion is that the law of liberty is the ten commandments, or that, at the very least, the ten commandments are included in the law of liberty.
am in agreement with you that we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation...
your adding the part that’s says “ as to condemnation “ otherwise you would have it . The entire purpose and design of the law is to condemn and hold guilty
Moses law is everything Moses said about everything. That’s the law biblically . We don’t take new everything else new priest , new sacrifice , new promised land ect and then go back to the word promising the old condemned things for the old condemned sinners and the old desolate promised land
everything is new it was mediated by Jesus not moses but Jesus
it’s not “ as to condemnation “ we’re simply as if we died under the law we’re dead to it it has no word to say to dead people good or bad a dead man the law doesn’t apply to
but this word is about bringing people who we’re close denned to death by the law , up from death after baptism is a new word complete in CNN ridt. It. Erring any additions or subtractions
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
the law of Moses is simply an old covenant that we have died to completely now we have the lords word of life we don’t need the law it’s actually a subversion to people a yoke and burden to them to add a law of sin and death to the gospel of remission of sins and life
it’s condemnation v salvation.
As to “ keeping “ the law it’s simple
“For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Galatians 5:14 KJV
in other words do what Jesus taught and love people and all the law is fulfilled not by the commandments but by brotherly love
your adding the part that’s says “ as to condemnation “ otherwise you would have it . The entire purpose and design of the law is to condemn and hold guilty
Moses law is everything Moses said about everything. That’s the law biblically . We don’t take new everything else new priest , new sacrifice , new promised land ect and then go back to the word promising the old condemned things for the old condemned sinners and the old desolate promised land
everything is new it was mediated by Jesus not moses but Jesus
it’s not “ as to condemnation “ we’re simply as if we died under the law we’re dead to it it has no word to say to dead people good or bad a dead man the law doesn’t apply to
but this word is about bringing people who we’re close denned to death by the law , up from death after baptism is a new word complete in CNN ridt. It. Erring any additions or subtractions
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
the law of Moses is simply an old covenant that we have died to completely now we have the lords word of life we don’t need the law it’s actually a subversion to people a yoke and burden to them to add a law of sin and death to the gospel of remission of sins and life
it’s condemnation v salvation.
As to “ keeping “ the law it’s simple
“For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
Galatians 5:14 KJV
in other words do what Jesus taught and love people and all the law is fulfilled not by the commandments but by brotherly love