How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Runningman]

Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days .... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds"

Jesus returns to gather His elect. That's exactly how the rapture is described in every camp whether pre, mid, or post trib.

In other rapture verses Jesus comes back to gather His elect. What makes the post-trib rapture sure and scriptural is Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 say this literally happens after the tribulation that was described in the preceding verses.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

[oyster67]

Now you know I am no Pre Tribber ... but nice try

That's ok. We will keep trying to crack that (walnut) between your ears.

I was thinking about the lack of anything about the 1, 000 years that separate the resurrection of the just and the general resurrection unto judgement.

Revelation
20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus returns to gather His elect. That's exactly how the rapture is described in every camp whether pre, mid, or post trib.

In other rapture verses Jesus comes back to gather His elect. What makes the post-trib rapture sure and scriptural is Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 say this literally happens after the tribulation that was described in the preceding verses.

Mark 13:24-27
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

I also might add more of my commentary about Mark 13:27:

27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

They are being gathered from the earth and moved to heaven or they are being gathered everywhere in earth and heaven? There are two ways to read this, but which makes sense?

Heaven is translated as the air or the sky. It's the Earth's atmosphere or maybe even outer space. Are there elect in the Earth's atmosphere or in outer space to gather? Possibly yes due to the modern inventions of aircraft and spacecraft, but I don't think that was what Jesus had in mind when He told His disciples the Olivet Discourse.

I believe Jesus stated here, point blank, in Mark 13:27 that His elect will be taken from the surface of the earth and brought to the sky after the tribulation. Where else do we see this? 1 Thessalonians 4.

1 Thess. 4:17
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[oyster67]

1.)The Lord said, and HE made it very CLEAR, that His Second Coming is immediately after the Tribulation - Matt 24

Yes, Amen.

2.) The Apostle Paul also said that His Coming will FIRST be to Resurrect the dead in Him - AFTER that the rapture of the remaining.

Yes and Amen. But that "After" does not imply 7 years. It's like me following you into town. It is only then that the 7-year countdown begins. We will come back DOWN with Him after being in Heaven with Him for 7 years. Read through it with this in mind and you will see that all the pieces fit perfectly. It is the only way anything fits at all.

3.) The LORD, Apostle Paul and Apostle John all said that the Antichrist comes before the Second Coming of Christ/Resurrection/rapture.

The things that follow the Trib and Antichrist are the Second Coming when we return with Him to reign with Him 1000 years, and then the GWT Judgement of the damned (second resurrection).

should we sin and change them as satan did in the Garden???

Definitely not.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, Amen.

Yes and Amen. But that "After" does not imply 7 years. It's like me following you into town. It is only then that the 7-year countdown begins. We will come back DOWN with Him after being in Heaven with Him for 7 years. Read through it with this in mind and you will see that all the pieces fit perfectly. It is the only way anything fits at all.

The things that follow the Trib and Antichrist are the Second Coming when we return with Him to reign with Him 1000 years, and then the GWT Judgement of the damned (second resurrection).

Definitely not.

1 Thess 4:13-18 states the LORD's Second Coming is the First Resurrection and takes place BEFORE the rapture.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[DavidTree]

1 Thess 4:13-18 states the LORD's Second Coming is the First Resurrection and takes place BEFORE the rapture.

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

pre-trib rapture never came out of the mouth of God and cannot be found in Scripture

 

[studentoftheword]

Very interesting 13 min video with Rev John MacArthur on the Rapture --he makes a pretty good case for it being Pre-Trib -----

 

[DavidTree]

Very interesting 13 min video with Rev John MacArthur on the Rapture --he makes a pretty good case for it being Pre-Trib -----

John McArthur is in sin and will face serious judgment for speaking against the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

Study to show yourself approved by God and not religion and men who are religious.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/cessation-of-gifts.202115/

 

[studentoftheword]

DaivdTree -----you said -----John McArthur is in sin and will face serious judgment for speaking against the Holy Spirit and the word of God

I say ---You Wish

 

[DavidTree]

Very interesting 13 min video with Rev John MacArthur on the Rapture --he makes a pretty good case for it being Pre-Trib -----

John McArthur is a liar in this video and stay far away from this deceiver.

Lie #1.) McArthur : "the Bible does not give us instruction to the Church to face and go thru Tribulation"

JESUS: I have told you these things so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take courage; I have overcome the world!”
While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.
Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.
Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

John McArthur is a liar - you can go tell him to come on here and face his error.

 

[oyster67]

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.

That is the Rapture.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

That is the Rapture.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

Yes, that is the Rapture. When He returns at His Second Coming, we shall return back down with Him. He shall bring His Bride (the Church) back down with Him. This is what the Word says.

You have 99% ok.

 

[studentoftheword]

DavidTree ----You Wish

 

[DavidTree]

DaivdTree -----you said -----John McArthur is in sin and will face serious judgment for speaking against the Holy Spirit and the word of God

I say ---You Wish

i do not wish for anyone to face judgment but to repent from lieing by "adding to and taking away" from God's words.

Go tell John McArthur to come and face his falsehood in the Light of the words of Christ and the Apostles.

 

[DavidTree]

That is the Rapture.

That is the Rapture.

Yes, that is the Rapture. When He returns at His Second Coming, we shall return back down with Him. He shall bring His Bride (the Church) back down with Him. This is what the Word says.

You have 99% ok.

The rapture occurs AFTER the FIRST Resurrection at His Coming.

The FIRST Resurrection occurs sometime in Revelation chapters 19-20.

There is no pre-trib rapture in Scripture. The LORD says "Immediately after the Tribulation" Matthew ch24

God never said He would rapture His Church before the Tribulation and/or before His Coming.

There is only ONE Second Coming of Christ - only one.

There are no Saints left behind when He Comes and establishes His Reign and Rule over Satan and his angels, over the Antichrist and this evil ungodly world.

 

[oyster67]

John McArthur is in sin and will face serious judgment for speaking against the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

You shur do must have a whole lotta skin is this strange game you is playin'.

 

[DavidTree]

You shur do must have a whole lotta skin is this strange game you is playin'.

i detest the wolves in sheeps clothing that lie and twist God's words for their profit and to deceive the flock.

And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more. Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

To believe any person over the words of Christ and the Apostles is idolatry and respect of mens persons - religion.

 

[oyster67]

Lie #1.) McArthur : "the Bible does not give us instruction to the Church to face and go thru Tribulation"

John M is talking about the 7 year Trib, not our monthly pill bills.

 

[DavidTree]

John M is talking about the 7 year Trib, not our monthly pill bills.

His opening statement is a complete lie.

Lie #1.) McArthur : "the Bible does not give us instruction to the Church to face and go thru Tribulation"

i will go thru his video and post each lie/error he speaks against the words of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles and Revelation do not once, not ever, speak of or mention a 7 year tribulation period.

Do you know why???

 

[Ruby123]

John McArthur is in sin and will face serious judgment for speaking against the Holy Spirit and the word of God.

Study to show yourself approved by God and not religion and men who are religious.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/cessation-of-gifts.202115/

Does this mean you are judging him?

PS I don't even know who John McArthur is but it does irritate me when christians use that line to judge one another.

 

[oyster67]

There are no Saints left behind when He Comes and establishes His Reign and Rule over Satan and his angels, over the Antichrist and this evil ungodly world.

Very true, they shall become converted after the Trib begins. Many shall be traditional Jews. Most shall be beheaded. John M proposed these may repopulate the Earth for 1000 years.