A Double Standard in Christianity?
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anyone else notice how this thread mutates to become something else every time scripture is presented in an attempt to educate the belligerent among us?
first we have women cannot speak in a gathering of both genders and then we see that is not true as provided by scripture, so then it becomes well, women did not write the Bible...as though that has anything whatsoever to do with women praying or prophesying or being a deaconess or whatever
the fact that anyone would attempt to discredit women from participating in any way, indicates a spirit that is not of God. As each believer is supposed to give place to others, it becomes painfully obvious that what we have here is a good ole boys club and not instruction or teaching in Christ, but controlling and abusive behavior that bullies half the population of the world
it is also obvious, that individuals that do so, will either receive a rude awakening in the after life, or, should they make an actual effort to allow the Holy Spirit to soften their hard hearts, God may yet turn and have mercy on them that they would repent and make amends for all the harm they have done.
first we have women cannot speak in a gathering of both genders and then we see that is not true as provided by scripture, so then it becomes well, women did not write the Bible...as though that has anything whatsoever to do with women praying or prophesying or being a deaconess or whatever
the fact that anyone would attempt to discredit women from participating in any way, indicates a spirit that is not of God. As each believer is supposed to give place to others, it becomes painfully obvious that what we have here is a good ole boys club and not instruction or teaching in Christ, but controlling and abusive behavior that bullies half the population of the world
it is also obvious, that individuals that do so, will either receive a rude awakening in the after life, or, should they make an actual effort to allow the Holy Spirit to soften their hard hearts, God may yet turn and have mercy on them that they would repent and make amends for all the harm they have done.
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Not sure where you are getting this from, but ...
If your contention is 1 Tim 3:1-13 are basically the qualifications of both the overseer and the deacon, then there is a conflict with
v2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
v11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Unless transgenderism and post modern gender politics extended back to the time of the Apostles, I cannot see a husband to be female. If 2 statements are in conflict with the same paragraph, then the paragraph is wrong. Filling what you perceive as missing in the Scriptures, is called adding to the Scriptures. See where that gets you.
1 Tim 3:1-13 should be read as
1 Tim 3:1-7 qualifications of the bishop
1 Tim 3:8-13 qualifications of the deacon v11 "In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things. "
No conflicts anywhere and no adding to the Scriptures.
If your contention is 1 Tim 3:1-13 are basically the qualifications of both the overseer and the deacon, then there is a conflict with
v2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
v11Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
Unless transgenderism and post modern gender politics extended back to the time of the Apostles, I cannot see a husband to be female. If 2 statements are in conflict with the same paragraph, then the paragraph is wrong. Filling what you perceive as missing in the Scriptures, is called adding to the Scriptures. See where that gets you.
1 Tim 3:1-13 should be read as
1 Tim 3:1-7 qualifications of the bishop
1 Tim 3:8-13 qualifications of the deacon v11 "In the same way, the women must be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in all things. "
No conflicts anywhere and no adding to the Scriptures.
I didn't say that I was.
However, if my opinions are based on an unction by which I "know all things", then they are in conjunction with His take on things.
And you need to consider that my claim on this may in fact be based in reality.
Because if it is, then your rejection of my point of view is something that just might get you into trouble when you are standing before Him and giving an account of yourself.
And of course I am not saying that anyone has to agree with me.
If what I am saying is in nay way contradicted by holy scripture, then I would actually encourage you to reject my point of view.
But if there is nothing in holy scripture that refutes what I am saying, then you need to consider its plausibility even if I do not give a proof text but only give texts that are evidentiary to support my case.
However, if my opinions are based on an unction by which I "know all things", then they are in conjunction with His take on things.
And you need to consider that my claim on this may in fact be based in reality.
Because if it is, then your rejection of my point of view is something that just might get you into trouble when you are standing before Him and giving an account of yourself.
And of course I am not saying that anyone has to agree with me.
If what I am saying is in nay way contradicted by holy scripture, then I would actually encourage you to reject my point of view.
But if there is nothing in holy scripture that refutes what I am saying, then you need to consider its plausibility even if I do not give a proof text but only give texts that are evidentiary to support my case.
Because I didn't capitalize the "j" in "just"?
Before you make assumptions you should look at the about in someone's profile.
And I do take this as an insult.
If I actually were a woman, it would not be an insult for you to think I am a woman.
But because I am a man, I think that you have crossed the line here over into un-Christian behaviour.
Before you make assumptions you should look at the about in someone's profile.
And I do take this as an insult.
If I actually were a woman, it would not be an insult for you to think I am a woman.
But because I am a man, I think that you have crossed the line here over into un-Christian behaviour.
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Just take these passages and cut them out of your Bible with scissors.
Women Instructed
1Ti 2:9, In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10, But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11, Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13, For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15, Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1Co 14:34, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35, And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36, What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37, If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38, But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
According to you, anyone who abides by these scriptures has a spirit that is not of God.
Thus, in effect, you slander the Holy Spirit, who inspired these scriptures to be written, as being a spirit that is not of God.
Shame on you.
Women Instructed
1Ti 2:9, In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10, But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11, Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12, But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13, For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14, And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:15, Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1Co 14:34, Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35, And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Co 14:36, What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Co 14:37, If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38, But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
According to you, anyone who abides by these scriptures has a spirit that is not of God.
Thus, in effect, you slander the Holy Spirit, who inspired these scriptures to be written, as being a spirit that is not of God.
Shame on you.
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Many women were functionally illiterate in the ANE...it was unique to find women who could read and write.
Usually only wealthy or business women could read and write...of which Phoebe was one such person. She was unique in that she could read and write. In Israel women weren't discouraged from going to school...far from it. But the life of a housewife didn't lend itself to using the skill....so many women dropped out soon enough to work at home and learn how to be a wife and mother.
And roughly the same reasons dominated the Roman society.
The reformation was primarily over education...only the rich elite were taught the skill of reading and writing.
Elizabeth and Bloody Mary were both the head of the Church of England.
So...just saying that women teaching men is common enough. As is the colloquial sayings about men leadership. Most women didn't have the skills to do the job.
Usually only wealthy or business women could read and write...of which Phoebe was one such person. She was unique in that she could read and write. In Israel women weren't discouraged from going to school...far from it. But the life of a housewife didn't lend itself to using the skill....so many women dropped out soon enough to work at home and learn how to be a wife and mother.
And roughly the same reasons dominated the Roman society.
The reformation was primarily over education...only the rich elite were taught the skill of reading and writing.
Elizabeth and Bloody Mary were both the head of the Church of England.
So...just saying that women teaching men is common enough. As is the colloquial sayings about men leadership. Most women didn't have the skills to do the job.
We can obtain the promises of the Lord by faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 1 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22).
So, if you will ask, seek, and knock (Matthew 7:7-8) concerning this promise of holy scripture (found in 1 John 2:20), you also can receive an unction from the holy one.
Of course, you may not like knowing all things very much; because it seems to me that you don't like the truth.
And you might be inclined to say things that are not the truth even though the unction tells you that they are the truth. Thus you would be held accountable for lying before the Lord; whereas if you do not have the unction (as it is at present) you will only be held accountable for being wrong.
So, if you will ask, seek, and knock (Matthew 7:7-8) concerning this promise of holy scripture (found in 1 John 2:20), you also can receive an unction from the holy one.
Of course, you may not like knowing all things very much; because it seems to me that you don't like the truth.
And you might be inclined to say things that are not the truth even though the unction tells you that they are the truth. Thus you would be held accountable for lying before the Lord; whereas if you do not have the unction (as it is at present) you will only be held accountable for being wrong.
S
well your ears and eyes seem to offend you every time the truth about what scripture actually states about women is brought to your attention
are you going to follow the scripture you quote (even though obviously it is meant spiritually) and cut off your ears and poke out your eyes? you make it so easy.
you also have the verse you are trying to quote wrong. it's your right hand; not your heart
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to depart into hell. Matthew 5:30
I do believe some people in this world would be better cutting off the things that offend them. perhaps never look at a woman again since you believe them to be so offensive
so, it seems the actual last words belong to Christ as we had to correct what you wrote
are you going to follow the scripture you quote (even though obviously it is meant spiritually) and cut off your ears and poke out your eyes? you make it so easy.
you also have the verse you are trying to quote wrong. it's your right hand; not your heart
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to depart into hell. Matthew 5:30
I do believe some people in this world would be better cutting off the things that offend them. perhaps never look at a woman again since you believe them to be so offensive
so, it seems the actual last words belong to Christ as we had to correct what you wrote
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Job 21:3, Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on.
Of course those who are opposed to the truth would mock at the idea of someone who is preaching to them having an unction.
However, it should be clear that an unction is indeed obtainable (1 John 2:20) through faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 1 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22).
Of course, one might obtain it at a cost....that those who do not want to believe what you are saying by that unction would persecute you (by mocking you) for the righteousness of the unction of the truth that you have in your heart; as you proclaim that truth to others.
See Matthew 5:10-12, Luke 6:22-23, 2 Timothy 3:10-12.
Of course those who are opposed to the truth would mock at the idea of someone who is preaching to them having an unction.
However, it should be clear that an unction is indeed obtainable (1 John 2:20) through faith (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 1 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22).
Of course, one might obtain it at a cost....that those who do not want to believe what you are saying by that unction would persecute you (by mocking you) for the righteousness of the unction of the truth that you have in your heart; as you proclaim that truth to others.
See Matthew 5:10-12, Luke 6:22-23, 2 Timothy 3:10-12.
Well if you are just parroting a source you should abandon that source...they don't do clean research.
No credible source I've ever seen has ever suggested that Apollo's had anything to do with Hebrews. First off Apollos was Greek....duh. And Jews generally ignored most Hellenistic Jews like Stephan who was martyred. So Apollo's would be the last one they would listen to.
Also the author of the book of Hebrews is fully versed in Midrash, Sifre, and Talmud. All Jewish religious leaders would know this...but apparently even Timothy wasn't aware of a lot of this stuff.
So... logically no one in his right mind would ever state Apollos was the author.
No credible source I've ever seen has ever suggested that Apollo's had anything to do with Hebrews. First off Apollos was Greek....duh. And Jews generally ignored most Hellenistic Jews like Stephan who was martyred. So Apollo's would be the last one they would listen to.
Also the author of the book of Hebrews is fully versed in Midrash, Sifre, and Talmud. All Jewish religious leaders would know this...but apparently even Timothy wasn't aware of a lot of this stuff.
So... logically no one in his right mind would ever state Apollos was the author.
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I am not adding anything.
1 Timothy 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife.
1 Timothy 3:12 Deacons must be the husband of one wife
1 Timothy 3:11 Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
As I stated in my comments about 1 Corinthians 11, the Greek words for gender are not role-specific. Romans 16:1 designates a woman as a deacon, which means the "husband of one wife" in 1 Timothy 3:12 cannot mean the role is restricted to men, and if deacon is not a male-only role, then by the same logic, neither is overseer.
Such abominations have nothing whatsoever to do with my view, and never have.
1 Timothy 3:2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife.
1 Timothy 3:12 Deacons must be the husband of one wife
1 Timothy 3:11 Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things.
As I stated in my comments about 1 Corinthians 11, the Greek words for gender are not role-specific. Romans 16:1 designates a woman as a deacon, which means the "husband of one wife" in 1 Timothy 3:12 cannot mean the role is restricted to men, and if deacon is not a male-only role, then by the same logic, neither is overseer.
Such abominations have nothing whatsoever to do with my view, and never have.