The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[brightfame52]

What is repentance ? In short repentance is no more than the redeemed sinner being experientially reconcile to God, and this reconciliation is given or bestowed upon all for whom Christ died Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

This reconciliation also is through Christ's death as that in Rom 5:10 was, the difference being this. The reconciliation in Rom 5:10 was God being reconciled to His Apostate people even while they are being enemies, and it is promised there, that they shall be saved by His Life, well here in 1 Col 1:21 is the fulfillment of that promise, and what Christ does here to save us, is reconcile us to God and He does away with that enmity that was in our minds by wicked works, of which constituted us enemies Rom 5:10, so basically, we have recorded between Rom 5:10 and Col 1:20 the full effect of Christ's Reconciling Death !

Col 1:20 is actually expressive of one being given repentance toward God, and again it is the effect of Christ's reconciling death, and to deny Christ's Death this accomplishment for everyone He died, is against Christ, plain and simple !

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus gives Life to the World ! Pt 2

The Lord Jesus Christ Gives, not offer, or make available, Life [Spiritual] to the World [ Church or the World of His Sheep, both jew and gentile Sheep ! ] !

Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. That is He is giving if forth from Himself, as the quickening Spirit 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The word quickening is the greek word zōopoieō and means:

to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate

b) to restore to life

c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life

d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing

So He became a Life giving Spirit, by sending the Holy Spirit to give Life to His Church !

Now because Christ by dying this Covenant Death for the World He is to save Matt 26:28, the World He died for is given Life, life from the Spiritual Dead, for this must be so, for He states this Purpose Jn 10:10

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have or receive life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

All for whom Christ will be by His Resurrection or because of it, begotten again unto a Lively Hope !

1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

This begotten again is the greek anagennaō and means:


to produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

They produced again into a new Life. This corresponds with Him being a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 and that is how He fulfills what is said in Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

He gives it through New Birth to each member of that World ! 191

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The End of Christ's Death, the bearing of Our Sins on the Tree, not for everyone

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

His death was a failure

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

this means for all whom He died, all the Father desired to be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth 1 Tim 2:4

You need to read your Bible, brightfame52.

We know from 1 John 2:2 that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


We know from 1 Timothy 2:4 that it is God's desire that all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

However, we know that there are some who will find themselves cast into the lake of fire.


What you claim does not line up with Scripture.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[brightfame52]

You need to read your Bible, brightfame52.

We know from 1 John 2:2 that the Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


We know from 1 Timothy 2:4 that it is God's desire that all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

However, we know that there are some who will find themselves cast into the lake of fire.


What you claim does not line up with Scripture.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

You constantly opposing the truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:14 By one offering he hath perfected for ever

Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

It must be also that all for whom Christ died, by His Offering alone, apart from any work of the Spirit on them or in them, that by this one One Offering, they are Justified forever, because by it they are perfected forever, and within this perfection there is not one of their sins not punished in Christ for them, to include the sin of unbelief !

The word perfected here means:

to make perfect, complete

to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end

to complete (perfect)

add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full

to be found perfect to bring to the end (goal) proposed

to accomplish

bring to a close or fulfilment by event

of the prophecies of the scriptures

Now remember, the Author is speaking about the Effects of the Death of Christ, and that it [Christ's Offering alone] Perfected those who are sanctified.

Now what does this mean ?

It means that Christ has perfectly fulfilled the Law for them ! He obeyed all of its Precepts Perfectly, not for Himself, but for them, Before God's Law and Justice !

Next, He has perfectly atoned for their sins, took them out of the way,absolved them before God's Law and Justice, perfectly. Cleansed them as Per Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Also, He obtained forgiveness of all our sins ,Perfectly, past, present and future, for all the Elect of all time !

We have by virtue of His Offering been Justified from all things Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Not their believing Justified them from all things, But Christ, by His Offering, which we come to believe when that fact is Revealed to us !

All this was accomplished solely by the Offering of Christ for all whom He died, before and apart from but not to omit or cast aside, the Work of the Spirit and the Faith of the Believer !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You constantly opposing the truth.

nope.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

 

[brightfame52]

nope.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 Timothy 2:4 Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

Yep !

 

[brightfame52]

Heb 10:14 By one offering he hath perfected for ever

Heb 10:14 By one offering he hath perfected for ever, which includes the doing away with unbelief !

The religious teachers, many of them teach that Christ did not die for the sin of unbelief, but that is another lie. If Christ did not die for that sin, and believing in Christ is something man does apart from Christ's satisfying God's law and Justice on our behalf for our sins, then we are saved by something we did apart from the atonement of Christ's satisfaction, if its true that Christ did not die for unbelief !

However, the sin of unbelief along with all other sins have been paid for by Christ's Death for all whom He died, and they are before God's Law and Justice perfected forever !

For unbelief did not prevent Paul from being saved by Christ's Death from His Testimony here 1 Tim 1:12-16


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Paul testifies to the Grace of God saving Him out of and in spite of His Ignorance and Unbelief, which all of God's Elect are in at first Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all[The Elect] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

But back to Heb 10:14, by His Death [alone] He hath perfected [perfect passive participle] forever all whom are being sanctified, that are in a sanctified state ! This means that everyone Christ died for, that even though as others by nature, they are children of wrath, nevertheless unlike them, they are at the same time in a state of sanctification by Christ's Blood Heb 10:10, for the passover Lamb has been slain for them. They are all like Jeremiah 1:5 He was sanctified before he came out of his Mothers womb by the Purpose of God, but that said, he was still born like other men of his day, by nature a child of wrath, a sinner, and needed to be experientially reconciled to God like this Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled !

All of God's Elect will experience this reconciliation because of the perfection of the Death of Christ which this is the fruit of !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

For unbelief did not prevent Paul from being saved by Christ's Death from His Testimony here 1 Tim 1:12-16


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Paul obtained mercy for the behaviors described in the verse ... he was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious.

Those are the behaviors for which he obtained mercy.


We are to bring our thoughts into alignment with God's Word ... not manipulate God's Word to make it fit man's dogma.

Stop twisting God's Word to make it fit your preconceived notion concerning salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

By His Stripes Ye are Healed !

1 Pet 2:24

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

By His Stripes ye are Healed. The Death of Christ here is clearly stated by the inspired writer, the Apostle to be the Sole and Meritorious Cause of Being Healed. That is His Stripes provided the Eternal Benefit of perfectly Healing those whom Christ died for from all sin in God's Sight ! Col 1:22

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Thats why by His Death alone He hath Perfected forever they who are sanctified Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

This is by ONE OFFERING, not by the Work of the Spirit, but BY the OFFERING of His Body , when He bare Our sins in His Own Body on the Tree 1 Pet 2:24.

The Healing is also pointed out by the OT writer who was shown the Covenant benefit of the Death of Christ Ps 103:2-3

Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Yes, that is a benefit of the Death of Christ alone, for those He died for, all their sins are forgiven, a clean slate, as though they never sinned.194

Remission of sins is by the Blood of Christ alone before God's Sight !

Those false teachers who teach that Christ death in and of itself does not Justify one or that its Worthless, they are not of God !

 

[brightfame52]

Paul obtained mercy for the behaviors described in the verse ... he was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious.

Those are the behaviors for which he obtained mercy.


We are to bring our thoughts into alignment with God's Word ... not manipulate God's Word to make it fit man's dogma.

Stop twisting God's Word to make it fit your preconceived notion concerning salvation.

You attributing salvation to mans behaviour, thats works.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You attributing salvation to mans behaviour, thats works.

ha! your missing the point does not negate the fact that (according to 1 Tim 1:13), the behaviors for which Paul obtained mercy were clearly identified in the verse ... Paul was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious.

Your feeble attempt in your Post #649 to claim Paul was referring to salvation fails.

In fact, Paul goes on to state Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting (1 Tim 1:16).


... btw, according to Rom 4, faith is not works.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[brightfame52]

ha! your missing the point does not negate the fact that (according to 1 Tim 1:13), the behaviors for which Paul obtained mercy were clearly identified in the verse ... Paul was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious.

Your feeble attempt in your Post #649 to claim Paul was referring to salvation fails.

In fact, Paul goes on to state Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting (1 Tim 1:16).


... btw, according to Rom 4, faith is not works.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You attribute salvation to mans behaviour instead of mercy and grace. Thats works and self righteousness !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You attribute salvation to mans behaviour instead of mercy and grace. Thats works and self righteousness !

you attributing faith to "mans behaviour instead of mercy and grace" does not change faith into "works and self righteousness !"

... again, according to Rom 4, faith is not works.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ's death is a saving Death, the benefits of His redeeming gives both Faith and Repentance to those He died for, His Church. That Faith is a gift of God given by Christ to those that He saves, that He is their Saviour, it is seen in that He gives Repentance to Israel, His Elect out of both jews and gentiles Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

You see that ? God exalted Him with His Right Hand, TO BE A PRINCE AND SAVIOUR, for to GIVE REPENTANCE !

Folks Christ is not a Saviour without giving Repentance to Israel and not just ethnic jews, but that Israel of God made up of both jews and gentiles Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Now in this sense Repentance and Faith are the same, Two sides of one Coin, for Repentance in its widest significance is a change of mind, and then embracing something that has been newly revealed, in which case, True Repentance is a changing of our mind from seeking salvation by our own righteousness, our works and conditions, and embracing the Righteousness of God being made known to one from Faith to Faith through the Gospel Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So when scripture states that God gives Repentance or the Saviour Christ gives Repentance, Faith is automatically included or its not genuine Repentance, and so the Apostles often Preached both hand and hand Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Because these both were given to those being saved by the Cross !

 

[brightfame52]

you attributing faith to "mans behaviour instead of mercy and grace" does not change faith into "works and self righteousness !"

... again, according to Rom 4, faith is not works.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You exalting man and his behaviour over the saving effects of the death of Christ, the operations of His grace.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Repentance and Faith are the same

nope. repentance is repentance and faith is faith.

repentance = Greek metanoia
faith = Greek pistis

quit forcing your dogma to be equal to Scripture.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You exalting man and his behaviour over the saving effects of the death of Christ, the operations of His grace.

the one "exalting man and his behaviour" is the one who does not believe Scripture when Scripture reveals that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The one who "worketh not" is the one who "believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly" and his/her faith is "counted for righteousness"


Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[brightfame52]

nope. repentance is repentance and faith is faith.

repentance = Greek metanoia
faith = Greek pistis

quit forcing your dogma to be equal to Scripture.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

They go hand and hand. Repentance is unto the acknowledging of the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;