A Double Standard in Christianity?

[justbyfaith]

I'm not going to play games with you. Either quote the Scripture that substantiates your claim, or concede that there is no such Scripture.

There doesn't have to be a scripture for the premise to be true.

The scripture doesn't say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west...yet that is true.

Do you believe that a person can fulfill the position of pastor without preaching and/or teaching?

I believe that you are attempting to play games and to prolong this conversation for as long as possible with arguments that don't even really matter.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
1Ti 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
1Ti 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Paul is clearly speaking on what he doesn't care for, not what Lord demands. Verse 12 is clear enough on plus in verse 9 Paul is against women wearing gold, pearls or anything that is costly as well as not having broided hair which means braided hair.


Do you agree with Paul on those things also? That means no gold which would include wedding rings, which are usually of gold and costly. He also thinks women "shamefacedness" which means to have downcast eyes in bashfulness. That rules out any smiling or laughing. Hopefully Pastor doesn't tell a joke lest he cause women to shame themselves by reacting.

I wouldn't judge a woman who is wearing a gold wedding ring.

And I don't think that shamefacedness and sobriety rules out laughter in the case that the pastor might make a funny joke; and neither does it prohibit smiling.

We don't want to get too legalistic here...

It seems to me that you are presenting an argument against taking this scripture at face value.

Such arguments ar dealt with by the weapons of our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pullig donw of stronghold.

I will simply pray that you may realize that any time there is an argument against taking the scriptures at face value, that such an argument cannot be valid...

Because the scriptures are meant to be taken at face value.

 

[ewq1938]

I wouldn't judge a woman who is wearing a gold wedding ring.

And I don't think that shamefacedness and sobriety rules out laughter in the case that the pastor might make a funny joke; and neither does it prohibit smiling.

We don't want to get too legalistic here...

It seems to me that you are presenting an argument against taking this scripture at face value.

Such arguments ar dealt with by the weapons of our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pullig donw of stronghold.

I will simply pray that you may realize that any time there is an argument against taking the scriptures at face value, that such an argument cannot be valid...

Because the scriptures are meant to be taken at face value.

My point was that Paul said a lot of things that came just from him, not from God, and that he opposed many things we find perfectly acceptable today.

 

[justbyfaith]

My point was that Paul said a lot of things that came just from him, not from God, and that he opposed many things we find perfectly acceptable today.

Paul was an apostle and most everything that he said falls under this category...

1Co 7:40, But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

In the passage in question, it was Paul's judgment; nevertheless, he reasoned that the Holy Spirit was behind it

 

[ewq1938]

Paul was an apostle and what everything that he said falls under this category...

And some in this category:

1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

This means sometimes he will sometimes speak his own opinions are not commandments from God. IMO that what he was doing when he said women should not wear gold or have braided hair etc etc. It was cultural restrictions not things God commanded.

 

[justbyfaith]

And some in this category:

1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

This means sometimes he will sometimes speak his own opinions are not commandments from God. IMO that what he was doing when he said women should not wear gold or have braided hair etc etc. It was cultural restrictions not things God commanded.

See 1 Corinthians 11:16; which indicates that these issues are not based in the culture of the day but have a timeless understanding since the word of God is timeless.

 

[ewq1938]

See 1 Corinthians 11:16; which indicates that these issues are not based in the culture of the day but have a timeless understanding since the word of God is timeless.

OK, then let's get the word out that women will be kicked out of church if they wear gold or have braided hair, or have expensive clothes.

I personally think smiling and laughing violates Paul's command on women needing to be shamefacedness so that should also be added. And no pants! Women shouldn't be wearing men's clothing.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK, then let's get the word out that women will be kicked out of church if they wear gold or have braided hair, or have expensive clothes.

I personally think smiling and laughing violates Paul's command on women needing to be shamefacedness so that should also be added. And no pants! Women shouldn't be wearing men's clothing.

If you say so...

 

[Dino246]

There doesn't have to be a scripture for the premise to be true.

The scripture doesn't say that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west...yet that is true.

Do you believe that a person can fulfill the position of pastor without preaching and/or teaching?

I believe that you are attempting to play games and to prolong this conversation for as long as possible with arguments that don't even really matter.

Your attempt to put patterns in the natural world on the same level with biblical principles is just ridiculous. There is nothing in the natural world that establishes or restricts the role of pastors; that is entirely within the biblical realm. There is very little even within Scripture that prescribes the role, but here you are claiming that the Bible says things that it simply doesn't.

When you want to discuss Scripture, let me know; I'm not interested in discussing your inventions, speculations, or opinions.

 

[Dino246]

See 1 Corinthians 11:16; which indicates that these issues are not based in the culture of the day but have a timeless understanding since the word of God is timeless.

You claim the principles are timeless, and completely overlook the plain text of verse 11.

Did you already forget your own assertion, "The scriptures are meant to be taken at face value"?

 

[arpon]

I wouldn't judge a woman who is wearing a gold wedding ring.

And I don't think that shamefacedness and sobriety rules out laughter in the case that the pastor might make a funny joke; and neither does it prohibit smiling.

We don't want to get too legalistic here...

It seems to me that you are presenting an argument against taking this scripture at face value.

Such arguments ar dealt with by the weapons of our warfare which are not carnal but mighty in God for the pullig donw of stronghold.

I will simply pray that you may realize that any time there is an argument against taking the scriptures at face value, that such an argument cannot be valid...

Because the scriptures are meant to be taken at face value.

Brother, sorry for interrupting. I agree that the scriptures are meant to be taken at face value. But How and in which mind set we are taking this also matter. Cause if we take with the face value with no good intention than it is not Godly.
example- From Corinthian's 11 people say that mans are head = mans are manager and females are keeper/servant or else (especially in Asia). But if man are head then man have to serve as servant like Jesus. So head is same as servant. So we need to see the nature of God.)

 

[SophieT]

I actually have quite a low opinion of myself.

I believe that my flesh is utterly sinful.

My only hope for the obedience that I proclaim, therefore, is that I walk according to the Spirit by letting Jesus live His life in me and through me (Galatians 2:20).

this is interesting

not long ago you thought you were headed for perfection, which is normally referred to as sinlessness, but you told us that sinlessness is not your goal...so there is that bit of confusing info

so, now it seems you are creating a false dichotomy between flesh and spirit..

however scripture does not really make the distinction that you are making

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. I Thess. 5:23

you are really contorting scripture with your reference to Galatians above. your spirit is not somehow operating apart from what you do with your body

we are supposed to walk after the Holy Spirit, but we do so, right now, with the body in which our spirit dwells...along with the Holy Spirit

the way you are describing what you seem to believe sounds like the beginnings of Gnosticism...the gnostics believed they could sin with the body but the spirit was somehow not infected with that

you will not believe that, but I think most people here can see that and I am not appealing to others...I am stating what is a fact and have quoted a verse to show that you cannot separate yourself into a sinful part and a sinless part

I know you will not see that. you have a curious interpretation that is not in agreement with scripture

Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross and God sees that sinless sacrifice if we believe in Him....we are a tripartite being and God does not ignore one part at the expense of another

so, your utterly sinful flesh is supposed to have been redeemed. Paul writes to saints...not sinners. please consult the NT for that

 

[SophieT]

Use the quote feature and show any of my posts where I have pointed the finger and judged the heart of any individual here.

use the search feature and you will find quite a few. when a person calls your attention to your insults and personal attacks, you spin it or deny it outright. most call what you do arrogance

it seems you view yourself as a teacher, as if we didn't know , who is beyond the need for any type of correction, let alone being told you are judging falsely

classic

 

[Dino246]

use the search feature and you will find quite a few. when a person calls your attention to it, you spin it or deny it outright. most call what you do arrogance

it seems you view yourself as a teacher, as if we didn't know , who is beyond the need for any type of correction, let alone being told you are judging falsely

classic

I pointed out a handful of cases, with quotations. After some back-and-forth (see page 14), here is his response:

Okay, guilty as charged.

It's underneath the blood, anyway.

It's not an apology, and I wouldn't consider it 'repentance' but at least he acknowledged it. Whether he changes his practice remains to be seen.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

To you both, children are not mentioned in the context.

Matthew 19:13-15. Children in the faith....
Where is the mention of marriage context within 1 Corinthians 11:1-16? Or is the entire bible the context?
Also 1 Corinthians 11:16 If anyone is inclined to dispute this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God. (I put the BSB lest the KJV english is not obvious )

 

[Dino246]

Matthew 19:13-15. Children in the faith....
Where is the mention of marriage context within 1 Corinthians 11:1-16? Or is the entire bible the context?
Also 1 Corinthians 11:16 If anyone is inclined to dispute this, we have no other practice, nor do the churches of God. (I put the BSB lest the KJV english is not obvious )

Again...

ESV
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

HCSB
But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ.

KJV
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

MOUNCE
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is · Christ, and the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is · God.

NASB
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

NIV
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

NKJV
But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

NLT
But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

NRSV
But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the husband is the head of his wife, and God is the head of Christ.

The majority of English translations show either directly or indirectly that the marriage relationship is in view, by using wife/husband or a singular/specific article for the female.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your attempt to put patterns in the natural world on the same level with biblical principles is just ridiculous. There is nothing in the natural world that establishes or restricts the role of pastors; that is entirely within the biblical realm. There is very little even within Scripture that prescribes the role, but here you are claiming that the Bible says things that it simply doesn't.

When you want to discuss Scripture, let me know; I'm not interested in discussing your inventions, speculations, or opinions.

So, you are saying that it is your position that a pastor can do his or her job without preaching and/or teaching.

I would say to this that I think that you have lost touch with reality.

 

[justbyfaith]

You claim the principles are timeless, and completely overlook the plain text of verse 11.

Did you already forget your own assertion, "The scriptures are meant to be taken at face value"?

Explain how verse 11 refutes my position on this matter.

 

[justbyfaith]

not long ago you thought you were headed for perfection, which is normally referred to as sinlessness, but you told us that sinlessness is not your goal...so there is that bit of confusing info

so, now it seems you are creating a false dichotomy between flesh and spirit..

however scripture does not really make the distinction that you are making

there is a true dichotomy between flesh and spirit (Galatians 5:16).

you are really contorting scripture with your reference to Galatians above. your spirit is not somehow operating apart from what you do with your body

See Galatians 5:16. And Galatians 2:20 is of course referring to the whole of our behaviour; not just what is happening in our spirit.

we are supposed to walk after the Holy Spirit, but we do so, right now, with the body in which our spirit dwells...along with the Holy Spirit

the way you are describing what you seem to believe sounds like the beginnings of Gnosticism...the gnostics believed they could sin with the body but the spirit was somehow not infected with that

No, I do not believe with the gnostics that we are not sinning with our spirit when we sin with the flesh. If we sin with the flesh we are sinning also with the spirit.

you will not believe that, but I think most people here can see that and I am not appealing to others...I am stating what is a fact and have quoted a verse to show that you cannot separate yourself into a sinful part and a sinless part

I know you will not see that. you have a curious interpretation that is not in agreement with scripture

I am saying that in me (that is, in my flesh) there dwells no good thing (Romans 7:18)...and that if I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (not my spirit; but the Spirit of God dwelling in me), that the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in me (Romans 8:4).

so, your utterly sinful flesh is supposed to have been redeemed. Paul writes to saints...not sinners. please consult the NT for that

The redemption of the body has to do with the fact that the element of sin is rendered dead within the body (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14)..

For the flesh is irredeemable...it is utterly sinful to the day of our death. Therefore the only redemption that is offered to the flesh is in its crucifixion.

 

[justbyfaith]

use the search feature and you will find quite a few. when a person calls your attention to your insults and personal attacks, you spin it or deny it outright. most call what you do arrogance

it seems you view yourself as a teacher, as if we didn't know , who is beyond the need for any type of correction, let alone being told you are judging falsely

classic

I have admitted to having made judgments about certain people. And you are certainly not making a judgment concerning me, in the post that I am now responding to...

My sins are underneath the blood.