The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[DavidTree]

""your view then must have 2 resurrections, one before the Trib and the one in Rev 20:5""

They lived and reigned with Christ.
No resurrection. Even those raptured alive did the same thing, they lived and reigned with Christ.

Oh, you mean that those you say (not the bible) are resurrected way after the descending on white horses, way after his appearing in the sky...in rev 20?

That's weird because the 1st resurrection has those in Christ that are in graves resurrected BEFORE your supposed first resurrection...psssst, they are resurrected SIMULTANEOUSLY AT HOS COMING...not the next day as you have reframed it

Your deal is way way off.

You are basically saying that the supposed "resurrection" of rev 20, is AFTER the legit 1st resurrection
Where they rise into the sky at the rapture AT HIS APPEARING...WHICH IS BEFORE THAT SCENE IN REV 20

But with Jesus gathering saints in rev 14....?
How many verses do you now need to reframe, to make your Rev 20 work?

Go ahead and show me now that you are painted in a corner.

I just gave you 2witnesses against your impossible rev 20 "1st resurrection"

what you are reading in rev 20, is in no way a time frame.
It is merely saying who they are...not WHEN they were resurrected.They are part of the 1st resurrection.

It is impossible for that to be what you are MAKING it into..
Vividly depicted in my 2 examples

The Saints are resurrected at His Coming = Revelation chapter 20 becuase chapter 19 is when HE Comes with the Saints who have died in Him just like it says in 1 Thessalonians 4

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

 

[DavidTree]

Absolutely!

​

[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.​

In Rev. 19, we see Christ riding a white horse. But this white horse is being ridden by a "he" with a small "h." No capital "H"? Who is this guy? The absence of a capital "H" in the KJB indicates that it is not Him—not the King of kings! Watch out! . . .and don’t be deceived!

Dear Sister, the first seal that is opened with the release of the White Horseman with crown and bow is not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Our Lord is not, nor ever has been kept under a seal. Our LORD is from Eternity and the One who opens the seals to reveal to us, His Saints, things which must take place.

First comes the many antichrists and then the final Antichrist before our LORD's Return.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:5

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2 Thess 2

Falling away and then the man of sin comes before the LORD's Return.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, 1 Timothy 4:1

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us;
but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Dear Sister, the first seal that is opened with the release of the White Horseman with crown and bow is not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Right.

And this is why none of the seals have yet been opened.

They will begin to be opened at some point in the future, starting with seal #1 (the antichrist / man of sin... the "whose coming / advent / arrival / presence / parousia" of him, per 2Th2:9a, i.e. seal #1).

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Dear Sister, the first seal that is opened with the release of the White Horseman with crown and bow is not the Lord Jesus Christ.

The first seal (horse) is the Antichrist impersonating Jesus Christ. He’s the dragon (Satan) and he comes before Jesus. Satan comes at the 6th Trump. Jesus comes at the 7th Trump. We also need to know that the seals are not in chronological order.

 

[DavidTree]

The first seal (horse) is the Antichrist impersonating Jesus Christ. He’s the dragon (Satan) and he comes before Jesus. Satan comes at the 6th Trump. Jesus comes at the 7th Trump. We also need to know that the seals are not in chronological order.

Brother Absolutely, thought you were referring the First Seal to being the Lord Jesus Christ.
i also had this presented to me before by another brother - and i was just checking in with you.

The seals do seem to lend themselves chronologically - i would say that Revelation Itself seems to repeat Itself in cycles.

First thing the Lord told His Bride: And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

The Apostle John also bears witness:
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

 

[Absolutely]

Yes at Jesus baptism you mean ?

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the Father is still in heaven ,

The son is still on earth revealing the unknown God in the flesh to man so they can see and know and believe in him

the holy spirit is Gods presence with and in the son on earth .

They are one and we are called to be filled with the same spirit and become one with the lord in heaven who says he will also come live with us by the same process.

The father is still in heaven

Jesus the son was God showing himself to Mankind, and is now glorified as the king and high priest in heavens kingdom.

and the Holy Ghost is his spirit coming to make a home in us and with us while we walk through the world , until in the end when we approach or bodies death and he takes us home to the fathers house in heaven .

All I’m saying is God is one whether it’s the spirit or the son or father he is one and the same. So the father remains in heaven Jesus was manifest for a time in earth and the holy spirit is given even today through faith to believers.

if he’s in earth it doesn’t mean he’s not in heaven or if he goes into hell to overcome it doesn’t mean he’s not still on earth and heaven he transcends our limited thinking is all I mean to be saying

This seems off

 

[Absolutely]

Brother Absolutely, thought you were referring the First Seal to being the Lord Jesus Christ.
i also had this presented to me before by another brother - and i was just checking in with you.

The seals do seem to lend themselves chronologically - i would say that Revelation Itself seems to repeat Itself in cycles.

First thing the Lord told His Bride: And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

The Apostle John also bears witness:
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

no
I said she belives both are the ac

 

[DavidTree]

Right.

And this is why none of the seals have yet been opened.

They will begin to be opened at some point in the future, starting with seal #1 (the antichrist / man of sin... the "whose coming / advent / arrival / presence / parousia" of him, per 2Th2:9a, i.e. seal #1).

Still addicted to adding to God's words to fit your desire............

Nowhere, not once in Revelation or any other place in Scripture does Christ Return before the Antichrist.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:18-19

The Witness of the Apostle John agrees with the LORD in Matthew 24 and the Apostle Paul in 1&2 Thessalonians and 1 Timothy 4:1

Evey person who speaks of a pre-trib rapture is a false witness and speaks against the words of Christ and the His Holy Apostles.

 

[Absolutely]

The Saints are resurrected at His Coming = Revelation chapter 20 becuase chapter 19 is when HE Comes with the Saints who have died in Him just like it says in 1 Thessalonians 4

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

You then have the saints in rev 20 not meeting the lord in the air.

You have them resurrected a day AFTER Jesus comes, defeats and the ac .

THEN YOU HAVE A SECOND 1st resurrection.

Your and most everyone elses error is you did not look at the setting and time frame.

You and others just assumed it was some 1st resurrection.

It was not...nor can it be.

 

[DavidTree]

no
I said she belives both are the ac

Did she not clarify in her post #864 ???

 

[Absolutely]

Right.

And this is why none of the seals have yet been opened.

They will begin to be opened at some point in the future, starting with seal #1 (the antichrist / man of sin... the "whose coming / advent / arrival / presence / parousia" of him, per 2Th2:9a, i.e. seal #1).

yep

 

[Absolutely]

Did she not clarify in her post #864 ???

she said the " little h " in he,can not be Jesus
Which is not true

 

[DavidTree]

You then have the saints in rev 20 not meeting the lord in the air.

You have them resurrected a day AFTER Jesus comes, defeats and the ac .

THEN YOU HAVE A SECOND 1st resurrection.

Your and most everyone elses error is you did not look at the setting and time frame.

You and others just assumed it was some 1st resurrection.

It was not...nor can it be.

Not at all, when we get to chapter 19 we see that the Fifth Seal has been completed and now His Wife is ready and They are now ready for the Second Coming of Christ as foretold in 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 John 2, and the Gospels.

As in the days of Noah they were married and given in marriage......" You and TDW and CV5 need to open your hearts, mind and soul to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

 

[DavidTree]

she said the " little h " in he,can not be Jesus
Which is not true

Ask her again - is she not referring to the little 'h' in the First Seal.

 

[Absolutely]

Still addicted to adding to God's words to fit your desire............

Nowhere, not once in Revelation or any other place in Scripture does Christ Return before the Antichrist.

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:18-19

The Witness of the Apostle John agrees with the LORD in Matthew 24 and the Apostle Paul in 1&2 Thessalonians and 1 Timothy 4:1

Evey person who speaks of a pre-trib rapture is a false witness and speaks against the words of Christ and the His Holy Apostles.

Before the flood.

He returns before the flood, or we can say while lot and noah were in peacetime and commerce, no judgement....before the gt....for the bride.

Once you recognize purpose, the bride, it is a game changer.

All the postribber power points are indirect, while the bride/ groom dynamic is heavens obcession.
Directly connected.

Omitting the bride and groom.

No understanding of purpose at that point.

 

[Absolutely]

Not at all, when we get to chapter 19 we see that the Fifth Seal has been completed and now His Wife is ready and They are now ready for the Second Coming of Christ as foretold in 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 John 2, and the Gospels.

As in the days of Noah they were married and given in marriage......" You and TDW and CV5 need to open your hearts, mind and soul to the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

so you intentionally ignore the setting of rev20, that it is A DAY Is SO AFTER the second coming.

Vividly portrayed.

But go ahead and pursue the non meeting in the air of the dead in Christ.

See where error has taken you?

You must declare there is no meeting in the air of those resurrected in 1 thes 4.

Yet another point for the bible

The word of God

 

[DavidTree]

Before the flood.

He returns before the flood, or we can say while lot and noah were in peacetime and commerce, no judgement....before the gt....for the bride.

Once you recognize purpose, the bride, it is a game changer.

All the postribber power points are indirect, while the bride/ groom dynamic is heavens obcession.
Directly connected.

Omitting the bride and groom.

No understanding of purpose at that point.

Put this to REST ALREADY = I have ALWAYS agreed wit Scripture = His Saints/His Bride are not appointed to God's wrath = NEVER.

CHRIST Comes Pre-Wrath for His Saints

and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

1.) Wait for His Coming
2.) the Resurrection
3.) Delivered from His Wrath

 

[DavidTree]

so you intentionally ignore the setting of rev20, that it is A DAY Is SO AFTER the second coming.

Vividly portrayed.

But go ahead and pursue the non meeting in the air of the dead in Christ.

See where error has taken you?

You must declare there is no meeting in the air of those resurrected in 1 thes 4.

Yet another point for the bible

The word of God

Chapter 20 does not say that.

Chapter 20 confirms 1&2 Thessalonians, 1 John 2:18-19 and the Gospels

WAKE UP - Revelation is not giving Day by Day Hour by Hour details.

Jesus replied: "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Revelation is coded and disguised and only discernable through the Holy Spirit and Scripture and is limited as by His Design.

 

[Absolutely]

The Saints are resurrected at His Coming = Revelation chapter 20 becuase chapter 19 is when HE Comes with the Saints who have died in Him just like it says in 1 Thessalonians 4

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,
even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Lol

You are making a fool of yourself.

You have the dead in christ raised A DAY AFTER THE SECOND COMING

SATAN HAS ALREADY BEEN DEFEATED, it is the next day or so...THEN YOU SAY THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE RAISED...
JUST COMPLETELY LUDICROUS.
You need to read it. I took the time to post it
You and a lot of others never connected the dots

REV 19:
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
CH 20;
1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Absolutely]

Chapter 20 does not say that.

Chapter 20 confirms 1&2 Thessalonians, 1 John 2:18-19 and the Gospels

WAKE UP - Revelation is not giving Day by Day Hour by Hour details.

Jesus replied: "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority.

Revelation is coded and disguised and only discernable through the Holy Spirit and Scripture and is limited as by His Design.

so you are sticking to the threory that the dead in christ are raised a day after the second coming?

No meeting in the air.

Got it.