Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
every 1 ignores the one about not keeping time an of course the second commandment no likeness of anything in heaven on earth in the sea or in the ground is not keep,,,, cause if have a computer or tv then u r breaking it.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
Nope. Two questions. Two question marks.
Two question marks means nothing. You can ask 1000 questions in a single sentence and use one question mark.

The second one is a two part statement - the two parts go together.

The second sentence has two questions in it. Anyone can see three questions were asked.


Question 1. Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?

Question 2. and what shall be the sign of thy coming


Question 3. and of the end of the world?

The end of world does not happen at second coming but after the 1000 year reign and the short season of Satan and the GWTJ....only when that's completed will end of world happen so a new world can begin.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,883
4,345
113
mywebsite.us
Two question marks means nothing. You can ask 1000 questions in a single sentence and use one question mark.




The second sentence has two questions in it. Anyone can see three questions were asked.
This is where you do not understand the 'grammar of the language'...

The second question has two "points of focal intent"; nonetheless, it is still [only] one question.

Those two 'points' are intrinsically tied together grammatically.

They "go together" in the context of the idea being presented in the statement --- whether you agree with it or not - or like it or not - is beside the point.

The end of world does not happen at second coming but after the 1000 year reign and the short season of Satan and the GWTJ....only when that's completed will end of world happen so a new world can begin.
And, this is your next mistake.

Why in the world would you even imagine to shackle Jesus with the absolute mandate of answering the question(s) He was asked with exactly-and-precisely no-more-and-no-less what He was asked??? (As in - "do not even dare to depart from the exact-precision absolute-definition concept-and-intent of the question" - as if Jesus could not answer with what He Himself chose to say.)

It is important to understand what-exactly-was-asked - at least in general terms. However, to think that the answer had to be an exactingly-particular match in every-fine-detail of the question is simply not a good approach to arriving at a proper interpretation and understanding of the answer that was given.

In fact, Jesus answered the question(s) by telling them much more [information] than they even asked for.

His answer was not a "perfect match" to the question(s) He was asked.

They asked according to their limited understanding of future events.

Jesus answered with the unlimited understanding of future events.

And, it is vitally important to properly interpret what Jesus said - "in light of" what was asked - but, without His answer being "confined" by the particular nature of the asking of the question(s).
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
This is where you do not understand the 'grammar of the language'...

The second question has two "points of focal intent"; nonetheless, it is still [only] one question.

It is you doesn't understand grammar of the language as he was asked three questions within two sentences. I will quote from some Greek scholars and other Greek sources on this matter:


Barnes:

Matthew 24:3
He sat upon the Mount of Olives - See the notes at Mat_21:1. From that mount there was a magnificent view of the whole city.
The disciples came unto him privately - Not all of them, but Peter, James, John, and Andrew, Mar_13:3. The prediction that the temple would be destroyed Mat_24:2 had been made in the presence of all the apostles. A “part” now came privately to know more particularly when this would be.
When shall these things be? - There are three questions here:
1. When those things should take place
2. What should be the signs of his own coming
3. What should be the signs that the end of the world was near

Clarke:

Matthew 24:3
Tell us, when shall these things be? - There appear to be three questions asked here by the disciples.
1st. When shall these things be? viz. the destruction of the city, temple, and Jewish state.
2dly. What shall be the sign of thy coming? viz. to execute these judgments upon them, and to establish thy own Church: and
3dly. When shall this world end? When wilt thou come to judge the quick and the dead?

Scofield:

Matthew 24:3
Tell us

The beginning of the Olivet Discourse.

Comparing Matthew 24 with (Luk_21:20-24) answers the threefold question. The order is as follows: "when shall these things be?" -- that is, destruction of the temple and city. Answer: (Luk_21:20-24).

Second and third questions: "And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" Answer: (Mat_24:4-33).


PNT

Matthew 24:3


As he sat on the mount of Olives. Passing out of the city, over the valley of Jehoshaphat, he and his disciples climbed the mount and sat down on its crest overlooking the city and temple bathed in the sunset.

Tell us. The disciples, still thinking of what the Lord had said, ask three questions: (1) When shall these things be? That is, the overthrow of the temple. (2) What shall be the sign of the coming? And (3) of the end of the world? They supposed these events would be simultaneous--a mistake. To understand what follows we must keep in mind that he has three questions to answer, nor are the answers blended.


RWB

Matthew 24:3

As he sat (kathēmenou). Genitive absolute. Picture of Jesus sitting on the Mount of Olives looking down on Jerusalem and the temple which he had just left. After the climb up the mountain four of the disciples (Peter, James, John, Andrew) come to Jesus with the problem raised by his solemn words. They ask these questions about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, his own second coming (parousia, presence, common in the papyri for the visit of the emperor), and the end of the world. Did they think that they were all to take place simultaneously? There is no way to answer. At any rate Jesus treats all three in this great eschatological discourse, the most difficult problem in the Synoptic Gospels.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,883
4,345
113
mywebsite.us
It is you doesn't understand grammar of the language as he was asked three questions within two sentences. I will quote from some Greek scholars and other Greek sources on this matter
All are wrong.

Just because someone is a [well-known] 'scholar' does not automatically make them right.

One 'sign' tied to both 'thy coming' and 'the end of the world'.

I am not going to argue with you - believe what you will - we can disagree.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
AND the people(Romans) of the prince(Not capitalized = the Anti-Christ)
200.gif

The translated English word isn't capitalized?? That's your proof it's referring to a covenant with the anti-christ?

Daniel's 70th Week Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression ( Israel has yet to repent, thus this transgression is ongoing )
2. Make an end of sins ( Israel still live in their sins, they will have to stop Wilfull Sin before this can happen )
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel has not yet accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah )
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness ( When Israel finally repents this must usher in Everlasting Righteousness )
5. To seal up vision and prophecy ( When Israel repents this willseal up all prophetic events in history )
6. Anoint the most Holy ( Jesus is thus Anointed the King of kings and Lord of Lords when Israel repents )
Wow.

I'll try one more time...

----

Like Daniel, the visions of Ezekiel were while he was living in Babylonian captivity. Chapters 40-48 are known as Ezekiel's temple chapters, which scholars agree has never existed yet in the history of Israel. Meanwhile, chapters 38-39 are known as the Gog/Magog chapters which most also agree are still future.

I'm mentioning these four chapters to establish a future boundary.

If Ezekiel was given his visions while also in Babylonian captivity, then what we read from chapters 33 to 48 is prophecy of everything that's supposed to happen to the Jews - in order - AFTER they return to Jerusalem during the 2nd Temple Period. Notice how the list of prophecies match events recorded in the gospels and in history:


1. Ezekiel 33:28-29 - Jews will start sinning again when they return from Babylon.

(fulfilled prior to Christ's birth 457 - 3 BC; see books Nehemiah, Malachi)


2. Ezekiel 34 - Corrupt shepherds will mislead The Alighty's people but He will lit. "search out His sheep" and make a "COVENANT" with them.

(fulfilled: Christ vs Pharisees; the new covenant with many; the cross; pentecost 27 - 34 AD)


3. Ezekiel 35:5-15 - Israel's calamity will be begin, and Edomites will attack during this time when "[Israel's] iniquity is at an end", and then Edom will claim the land as theirs, but live through constant war there; never at peace.

(fulfilled: 70 AD destruction; many years later land has never seen peace since the "state of Israel" was established)


4. Ezekiel 36:1-7 - The Almighty will be angry at Edom for claiming the land as their property, and angry at every nation of the world for claiming his people as their human property.

(fulfilled: the Jewish diaspora; the scattering = Jacob's trouble = Great Tribulation of the Jews; Luke 21:24 & Matthew 24, Daniel 12).


5. Ezekiel 36:8-15 - The nations will mock their possessions and mistreat them while Jews are in foreign lands, until The Almighty Himself gathers them back home.

(being fulfilled: theft, humiliation, holocausts throughout the centuries = their Great Tribulation; Luke 21:24 & Matthew 24, Daniel 12)


6. Ezekiel 36:24-27 - The Almighty promises to gather His people out of the lands of their possession and will confirm the new covenant with ALL. They'll remain in the lands of their scattering until He does this Himself.

(unfulfilled)


7. Ezekiel 37 - Valley of dry bones; The resurrection of the whole house of Israel.

(unfulfilled: This is the long awaited resurrection event spoken by Paul in 1 Thessalonians)


8. Ezekiel 38-39 - Then Israel will return and live in safety in their land without any protective walls or barriers, until Gog & Magog thinks to invade them. But the Almighty will destroy them Himself in His fiery fury.

(unfulfilled: the current "state of Israel" continues to build walls/partitions and fight. Those in the land are not Israel, but Edom)


9. Ezekiel 40-48 - Ezekiel's temple, also known as The Millennium Temple, where The Almighty and the Messiah will dwell with mankind forever.

(unfulfilled)

----

A true prophet should always confirm or enhance another prophet's prophecies, never contradict each other, because it's all from the Almighty.

- Ezekiel's phrase "their iniquity is at an end" is directly tied to Israel's calamity that leads to their scattering. The NIV uses the phrase " the time their punishment reach[es] its climax". This is what "to make an end of sins" means in Daniel 9: for sin to reach its height. They can't get more sinful that to kill the Son of the Living God (Heb 6:6).

- Nowhere in this list of prophetic events does it detail the Jews going through yet another judgment that scatters them yet again after returning to the land and siding with an antichrist.

- Ezekiel's prophecy says The Almighty's people remain in their scattered lands until He comes to resurrect and gather all that are His.

- His prophecy says those who claim the the land as theirs - before The Almighty regathers His people - are "Edom" and will suffer constant war while living there. The people who currently claim the land have lived through 73 years of constant war.

- The only covenants in this list of prophetic events are between the Almighty and His people. Not one is mentioned between His people and an antichrist.

The first covenant mentioned is said to happen when the Almighty is searching for His lost sheep (which is LITERALLY what Messiah said during His ministry before establishing the New covenant with the few who were with Him). The second covenant mentioned is said to happen after the people have been resurrected, regathered and returned to the land. The "dead in Christ" haven't risen yet.

-----

To push the 70th seven into the future conflicts with Ezekiel's prophecy in multiple areas, but when we leave the 70th seven in the first century, fulfilled just after the 69th seven Daniel's vision and Ezekiel's vision harmonize.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
[quoting from my past posts]

LISTING the passage which LIKEN unto a resurrection Israel's coming up out of the graveyard of nations, where SCATTERED ['sow[n] unto the earth']:

note the passages I've listed before that *LIKEN* this UNTO a RESURRECTION ^ (re: Israel's "FUTURE"):

--Romans 11:15(25-29);

--Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23;

--Isaiah 26:16-21;

--Daniel 12:1-4,10;

--John 6:39 (distinct from v.40);

--Hosea 5:15-6:3 "after TWO days" and "IN the THIRD day"...
...which is "THE LAST" of these three (counting from His resurrection/ascension [32ad], per Hos5:15), or "THE LAST" of seven (if you count from creation/Genesis 1, i.e. the "sabbatismos" of Heb4:9 (see Ex31:13,17 "it [the sabbath/7th day] is A SIGN between Me and the children of Israel for ever"), aka the Millennial Day of REST, that is, the 7th Millennium, or "THE LAST")]

I believe it is a big mistake to view the phrase "The Last Day" to be referring to "a singular 24-hr day"

[end quoting from one old post]

____________

[quoting from another old post]

I've posted this before about the "days" (and/or "day") issues (the ones that are not "singular 24-hr days"):

Hosea 5:14-6:3 [re: Israel] -

14 For I am like a lion to Ephraim

and like a young lion to the house of Judah.

I, even I, will tear them to pieces

and then go away.

I will carry them off

where no one can rescue them.

15 Then I will return to My place

until they admit their guilt and seek My face;

in their affliction

they will earnestly [or, early] seek Me.”

6:1 Come, let us [Israel] return to the LORD.

For He has torn us [Israel] to pieces,

but He will heal us [Israel];

He has wounded us [Israel],

but He will bind up our [Israel's] wounds.

2 After two days He will revive [H2421] us [Israel]; [see H2421 in Ezekiel 37 also, vv.3,5,6,9,10,14]

on/in the third day He will raise [H6965] us [Israel] up, [see H6965 in Isaiah 26 also, v.19]

that we [Israel] may live [H2421 (ditto the above note)] in His presence.

3 So let us [Israel] know—

let us [Israel] press on to know the LORD.

As surely as the sun rises,

He will appear;

He will come to us [Israel] like the rain,

like the spring showers that water the earth [/as the latter rain unto the earth].

____________

[then... quoting Gaebelein's Commentary on Hosea 5]

"And like the lion after his attack withdraws to his den, so the Lord would withdraw from them, leave them and return to His place, waiting till their repentance comes and they seek Him early in their affliction.

"The last verse of this chapter has a wider meaning than the past judgment which came upon the house of Israel. The Lord of glory came to earth and visited His people. He came with the message and offer of the kingdom to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not. After they had rejected Him, delivered Him into the hands of the Gentiles to be crucified, He returned to His place. There He is now at the right hand of God, waiting for that day, when the remnant of Israel will repent and seek His face Acts 3:19-26. [I mentioned Acts 3:21's reference to FUTURE events (i.e. the "UNTIL") in my Post #71 of this thread--EDIT: different thread]. That will be in their coming great affliction, in the time of Jacob’s trouble.

"Hosea 6:1-3. The division of the chapter at this point is unfortunate. The three verses of chapter 6 must not be detached from the previous chapter. Here we have the future repentance of the remnant of Israel, that is during the great tribulation. Believingly they will acknowledge His righteous judgment and express their faith and hope in His mercy and the promised blessings and restoration. They express what their great prophet Moses so beautifully stated in His prophetic song, that great vision given to him, ere he went to the mountain to die. “See now that I, even I, am He and there is no god with Me; I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand” Deuteronomy 32:39. After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight (literally, before His face).” They have been dead spiritually and nationally, but when the two days of their blindness and dispersion are over, there is coming for them the third day of life and [what is *LIKENED UNTO a] resurrection."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on Hosea 5 (taken from Bible Hub)

[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; bracketed insertions mine]

[end quoting old posts]
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,075
1,279
113
All are wrong.

Just because someone is a [well-known] 'scholar' does not automatically make them right.

One 'sign' tied to both 'thy coming' and 'the end of the world'.

I am not going to argue with you - believe what you will - we can disagree.

Yeah, I don't always agree with the scholars BUT I usually do because of their education and training. I couldn't find one who said there were two questions :)
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
“When ye….therefore….shall see…”
They would see that abomination. Not someone thousands of years later.
The verses after that keep saying “you”.
Jesus is talking to them, not someone thousands of years after them.
Man, you are so far lost as per understanding you need to start over. The LAST SIGN is this

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I hope you aren't sitting there telling me this GREAT ASTEROID hit the earth 2000 years ago which made the Sun and Moon go dark if you are then you are too far gone to reach, if not, then I just proved you wrong, you have zero clues on prophecy brother.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
still sounds like a human invention. What are your sources? What book did you read? I had your game of traditions of men in mind. Also your special personal revelations claims in mind too. My paint brush was too wide. My spelling is murder today, eye problems again.

For information of other readers since my memory is weak today.
https://jewsforjesus.org/publications/newsletter/newsletter-sep-2000/the-feast-of-trumpets/
https://www.gotquestions.org/Feast-of-Trumpets.html
https://www.oneforisrael.org/holidays/the-feast-of-trumpets/
https://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5827-era
You need to preach the Gospel and stop trying to teach Prophecy. You clearly are lost when it comes to Prophetic understandings brother.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
He said neither.

The quandry is resolved in the greek.

Also, Matthew 24:15-20 / Mark 13:14-18 / Luke 21:20-23a - unmistakably - was fulfilled circa 70 A.D.
These guys are arguing something not even worth speaking about. They are Preterists. o_O:sleep:
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
The translated English word isn't capitalized?? That's your proof it's referring to a covenant with the anti-christ?
That is me explaining ONE of many reasons why the name is not a Messianic reference. You wish t see another in Daniel where the word is Capitalized?

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;(capitalized) but he shall be broken without hand.

The above is the Anti-Christ who magnifies himself in his own heart. standing up (going to war) with Jesus who here is called the Prince of princes.

But you want e to believe that one chapter over, we get THIS:

Dan. 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah(capitalized) be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (NOT CAPITALIZED) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So, the gist is you do not understand what it states, that's a fact. Anyone who can't understand this really can't understand any prophecy, PERIOD. This is simple stuff, by a man called to prophesy over 35 years. I got news for you, you are not doing Jesus' work on this. Do you really think Satan could whisper lies to Pret, whom Jesus had to rebuke, but not you?

Wow.

I'll try one more time...
Don't bother, I just destroyed your erroneous thesus.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
[quoting from my past posts]

LISTING the passage which LIKEN unto a resurrection Israel's coming up out of the graveyard of nations, where SCATTERED ['sow[n] unto the earth'][...]
Thank you for sharing these passages. I cut your post for space so I can show how these prophecies fit Ezekiel's below.
If Ezekiel was given his visions while also in Babylonian captivity, then what we read from chapters 33 to 48 is a prophecy of everything that's supposed to happen to the Jews - in order - AFTER they return to Jerusalem during the 2nd Temple Period. Notice how the list of prophecies match events recorded in the gospels and in history:

1. Ezekiel 33:28-29 - Jews will start sinning again when they return from Babylon.

(fulfilled prior to Christ's birth 457 - 3 BC; see books Nehemiah, Malachi)


2. Ezekiel 34 - Corrupt shepherds will mislead The Almighty's people but He will lit. "search out His sheep" and make a "COVENANT" with them.

(fulfilled: Christ vs Pharisees; the new covenant with many; the cross; Pentecost 27 - 34 AD)


----Hosea's "Two Days" Begins (2000yrs)----

3. Ezekiel 35:5-15 - Israel's calamity will begin, and Edomites will attack during this time when "[Israel's] iniquity is at an end", and then Edom will claim the land as theirs, but live through constant war there; never at peace.

(fulfilled: starting with 70 AD destruction)

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time (Dan 12:1 partial)

For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him. (Hos 5:14)


4. Ezekiel 36:1-7 - The Almighty will be angry at Edom for claiming the land as their property, and angry at every nation of the world for claiming his people as their human property.

(fulfilled: the Jewish diaspora; the scattering = Jacob's trouble = Great Tribulation of the Jews; Luke 21:24 & Matthew 24, Daniel 12).


5. Ezekiel 36:8-15 - The nations will mock their possessions and mistreat them while Jews are in foreign lands until The Almighty Himself gathers them back home.

(being fulfilled: theft, humiliation, holocausts throughout the centuries = their Great Tribulation; Luke 21:24 & Matthew 24, Daniel 12)

Lord, in trouble have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them. Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. (Isa 26:16-18)

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offense, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early. (Hos 5:14)

After two days will he revive us... (Hos 6:2 part)


6. Ezekiel 36:24-27 - The Almighty promises to gather His people out of the lands of their possession and will confirm the new covenant with ALL. They'll remain in the lands of their scattering until He does this Himself.

(unfulfilled)

...and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1 remaining)


----Hosea's "Two Days" Ends. "Third Day" Begins (millennium reign)----


7. Ezekiel 37 - Valley of dry bones; The resurrection of the whole house of Israel.

(unfulfilled)

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (Rom 11:15)

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (Isa 26:19)

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. (Dan 12:2-3)

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:39-40)

...in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (Hos 6:2-3)


8. Ezekiel 38-39 - Then Israel will return and live in safety in their land without any protective walls or barriers until Gog & Magog thinks to invade them. But the Almighty will destroy them Himself in His fiery fury.

(unfulfilled)

Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. (Isa 26:20-21)


9. Ezekiel 40-48 - Ezekiel's temple, also known as The Millennium Temple, where The Almighty and the Messiah will dwell with mankind forever.

(unfulfilled)

----

True prophets should always confirm or enhance other prophecies, never contradict each other, because it's all from the Almighty. Notice how the general order of the other prophecies fits the same order given in Ezekiel. We merely need to overlay them line upon line. The events of Revelation can be overlayed in Ezekiel's prophecy the same way.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
That is me explaining ONE of many reasons why the name is not a Messianic reference. You wish t see another in Daniel where the word is Capitalized?

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes;(capitalized) but he shall be broken without hand.

The above is the Anti-Christ who magnifies himself in his own heart. standing up (going to war) with Jesus who here is called the Prince of princes.

But you want e to believe that one chapter over, we get THIS:

Dan. 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah(capitalized) be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince (NOT CAPITALIZED) that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So, the gist is you do not understand what it states, that's a fact. Anyone who can't understand this really can't understand any prophecy, PERIOD. This is simple stuff, by a man called to prophesy over 35 years. I got news for you, you are not doing Jesus' work on this. Do you really think Satan could whisper lies to Pret, whom Jesus had to rebuke, but not you?


Don't bother, I just destroyed your erroneous thesus.
You hang your 35yr scholarship on capitalized translated words. So if I wanna know who's being referred to, just look for the capitalization, right? Satan can't possibly influence translations, right? Ok, thanks you win. I can't possibly argue against this anymore.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,883
4,345
113
mywebsite.us
Thanks, Gary! Your reply pointed out an error I made. I don't necessarily like getting into the weeds concerning these details when I find a member who agrees with the overall point (i.e. that - as you say on your page - the '70 sevens' prophecy is 100% past history) since so few of us believe it already, but thanks.

What I meant to type in that post was...

- "7x7" = 49yrs - Decree to Rebuilding of City ...

- "62 x 7" = 434 yrs - Rebuilding of City to Messiah...

- "AFTER 62 x 7" = AFTER 434 yrs = WITHIN THE LAST 7 YEARS (range 27AD to 34AD) = Messiah's "cut off".

[^^ Math. "after 2" = 3........"after 99" = 100........"after 434 yrs" = the following year(s).]

I read through your explanation and studied your timeline, and if you'll allow me, the only element I have a slightly different understanding of is the 52 years.

Could you share where you're getting 52 years? The following is my understanding:

Decree > 49yrs > Rebuilt and Restored Jerusalem > 434yrs > The Messiah's Appearance ("after 434yrs") > The Messiah cut off in the midst of final 7yrs ("after 434 yrs")


Daniel 9:25
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks[...]


..."Unto", as in "appearance" of the Messiah.

457 BC - Ezra first leaves Babylon to go to Jerusalem on the 1st day of the 1st month (Ezra 7:1-28)

457 BC + 49 + 434 + 1 (no zero yr) = 27 AD (Messiah appears as Lamb of God on 1st day of 1st month; ministry begins)

We can confirm this in an exchange between The Messiah and the Pharisees...


John 2:20
Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?


History records the 2nd temple renovations beginning in 20BC.

20 BC + 46 + 1 (no zero year) = 27AD


Daniel 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


The prophecy says, "After 434 years" Messiah is cut off...

...and if that happened 1, 5, 10, 20 years "after 434 years", such would still satisfy this passage because it simply says "after..." But then the next verse gets more specific with the final 'seven' remaining so that we know the Messiah was cut off in that timeframe.
Please bear with me brother until I can find/make the time to write a "worthy" reply...
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
You hang your 35yr scholarship on capitalized translated words. So if I wanna know who's being referred to, just look for the capitalization, right? Satan can't possibly influence translations, right? Ok, thanks you win. I can't possibly argue against this anymore.
As I stated, ONE OF MANY, I have destroyed you on this case you are WRONG.