Why did the Most High God create sin?

[FreeGrace2]

dont imagine how i read 1 Cor 15:45 anymore .

I don't know where you got the indea that I have imagined anything about how your read any verse.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. you will notice Jesus wasn't refereed to last man Adam in that verse because its the Spirit

Nope. This is from the "Free Bible Commentary" on line, by Dr Bob Utley regarding 1 Cor 15:45:

"This must refer to the resurrection of Jesus and the future resurrections through Him (cf. v. 57). It is not meant to deny a physical aspect to Jesus' post-resurrection appearances, but to contrast the first Adam, whose actions caused death, with the last Adam, whose actions caused life, eternal life, resurrection life! This is an example of the Adam-Christ typology (cf. Rom. 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15:21-22,45-49; Phil. 2:6-8)."

Let's look at the whole context-
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

The blue words refer to Adam. The red words refer to "the last Adam" or the "heavenly man".

I don't see how one can separate the "last Adam" from the "heavenly man".

Regarding the phrase "last Adam, a life-giving spirit", just consider what Jesus said in John 10:28- I give them eternal LIFE, and they shall never perish.

Jesus Himself gives eternal LIFE. So all the red words refer to Him. Jesus IS the last Adam.

 

[listenyoumust]

I don't know where you got the indea that I have imagined anything about how your read any verse.


Nope. This is from the "Free Bible Commentary" on line, by Dr Bob Utley regarding 1 Cor 15:45:

"This must refer to the resurrection of Jesus and the future resurrections through Him (cf. v. 57). It is not meant to deny a physical aspect to Jesus' post-resurrection appearances, but to contrast the first Adam, whose actions caused death, with the last Adam, whose actions caused life, eternal life, resurrection life! This is an example of the Adam-Christ typology (cf. Rom. 5:12-21; 1 Cor. 15:21-22,45-49; Phil. 2:6-8)."

Let's look at the whole context-
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.
48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

The blue words refer to Adam. The red words refer to "the last Adam" or the "heavenly man".

I don't see how one can separate the "last Adam" from the "heavenly man".

Regarding the phrase "last Adam, a life-giving spirit", just consider what Jesus said in John 10:28- I give them eternal LIFE, and they shall never perish.

Jesus Himself gives eternal LIFE. So all the red words refer to Him. Jesus IS the last Adam.

Thanks for taking time to reason my post and replying .i know these are foundational truths and shakes alot .. its well, you might have misunderstood, i never denied a physical aspect to Jesus' post-resurrection appearances.Jesus is 100% Flesh and 100% God.let me explain further, Jesus is whole,consisting of the Jesus the head, who is seated at the right hand of the father today after assension and Jesus, the body(the body of Christ which is the church) still present on earth.
yes Jesus is the last Adam, and also yes as Adam set precedence for man unto death ,likely not exactly JESUS set precedence for man unto eternal life , the church gets its body(flesh) on the day of the Lord which is the day Jesus returns instantly. what recognized translation are you reading from ?
i like that together we look at its whole context?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thanks for taking time to reason my post and replying .i know these are foundational truths and shakes alot .. its well, you might have misunderstood, i never denied a physical aspect to Jesus' post-resurrection appearances.Jesus is 100% Flesh and 100% God.let me explain further, Jesus is whole,consisting of the Jesus the head, who is seated at the right hand of the father today after assension and Jesus, the body(the body of Christ which is the church) still present on earth.
yes Jesus is the last Adam, and also yes as Adam set precedence for man unto death ,likely not exactly JESUS set precedence for man unto eternal life , the church gets its body(flesh) on the day of the Lord which is the day Jesus returns instantly. what recognized translation are you reading from ?
i like that together we look at its whole context?

I prefer the NIV, for its easy reading, as well as the ESV. However, I do check the many available translations on biblehub.com and compare how words are rendered.

And I make frequent use of lexicons. I've even gone to a local Christian university and visited the reference part of their library to get further scholarly info on certain words.

 

[listenyoumust]

NIV is good also, but a no for me for study . in selection of translation i would advise any friend to select based on closeness to original text .. isreal in the bible knew the essence of words , they are better for it .. selction based on your convenience will some times misinterpret leaving key words. well thats just my opnion

 

[FreeGrace2]

NIV is good also, but a no for me for study . in selection of translation i would advise any friend to select based on closeness to original text .. isreal in the bible knew the essence of words , they are better for it .. selction based on your convenience will some times misinterpret leaving key words. well thats just my opnion

That's why I check the 28 translations on biblehub.com and consult lexicons for usage and meanings.

But the NIV is under the category of "dynamic equivalent", which means translating the meaning of the idea, rather than a "formal equivalent" translation, that can be a bit stilted, like the NASB.

 

[listenyoumust]

that formal equivalent translation should not be taken likely .. God in his dealings with MAN was exact for a purpose always..

 

[Magenta]

Wow. Someone actually admitting they've been banned. But since I am speaking from "experience" , how could she add to her avatar when banned? I wasn't able to post or see anything.

No, she was not admitting she got banned. As you know, a banned person cannot post. However, when a person is banned, it says so UNDER their avatar, the same way as under your current avatar it says, "Well-known member"

 

[TheLearner]

read to here

 

[TheLearner]

"Formal Equivalence translation philosophy places a premium on word-for-word translation - preserving as much syntactical structure from the original languages as possible. These translations are less interpretive than 'dynamic' translations. Translations that are known to follow this general philosophy : KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, RSV, NRSV. "
https://evangelicalbible.com/translations/bible-translation-guide/

 

[NOV25]

He didn’t.
Only God is without (unable to) sin. All created beings are not God, they are less than God, less than perfection. Anything less than God, less than perfection is prone (able) to sin.
So the angels fell, sin entered the garden…

Perhaps the better question is, why did He even bother knowing this would happen. The answer to that question can be found in scripture, John 17 is a good place to start.

 

[FreeGrace2]

"Formal Equivalence translation philosophy places a premium on word-for-word translation - preserving as much syntactical structure from the original languages as possible. These translations are less interpretive than 'dynamic' translations. Translations that are known to follow this general philosophy : KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, RSV, NRSV. "
https://evangelicalbible.com/translations/bible-translation-guide/

True. However, I know that my 1978 NIV is nearly exactly like the ESV that is used in the pulpit.

The only differences are word order or words with equivalent meanings. I have never seen any ESV verse that gives a different reading than my NIV.

The "dynamic equivalent" of the NIV only means that the meaning is preserved but language used that is more easily read.

I used to favor the NASB, but the word order is somewhat awkward, just like the Greek word order. In fact, Greek word order isn't even important, since the words contain much more inflexion than the English.

I once pointed out to my pastor that my NIV is nearly equal to the ESV and he feigned a stomach punch.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

God pronounced creation as "good" at every step until Eve
was made, at which point He pronounced it "very good."

Nice one ! Man is incomplete without woman as woman is incomplete without man. I find that before transgression and the curse a certain equality between them and only after under the curse is subjection included

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems as if this also is a result of transgression and because of the curse that there was subjection at all and as we step into the blessing of Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as before sin they were both called adam as if they were one , in Christ they are called the children of God in Christ who is one

 

[randyk]

Nice one ! Man is incomplete without woman as woman is incomplete without man. I find that before transgression and the curse a certain equality between them and only after under the curse is subjection included

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems as if this also is a result of transgression and because of the curse that there was subjection at all and as we step into the blessing of Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just as before sin they were both called adam as if they were one , in Christ they are called the children of God in Christ who is one

Yes, as difficult as it is for Christians to state this in a feminist environment, it is nevertheless true. Female submission to *husbands* appears to be a consequence of the Fall, and in particular, Eve's role in the Fall. However, I believe that in the Kingdom of God there will be absolute equality, and probably no gender at all. There will be no more need for procreation, since the full number of God's people will have been reached.

Though women inside a marriage do have to play a secondary role in relation to the family, this does not mean that women, as Christians, are in the least inferior to men. As James said, let the exalted humble themselves, and the humble exalt themselves, for purposes of equality. The mountains and hills shall be brought low, and the valleys shall be raised. And all flesh will *equally* see the salvation of God!

James 1.9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower.

 

[Icedaisey]

Amen.

The question of the ages. Isaiah 45 may provide a bit of insight.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[TheLearner]

sometimes I feel like

Proverbs 21:9 ESV / 612 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.
Proverbs 21:19 ESV / 403 helpful votes
It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman.
Proverbs 27:15 ESV / 340 helpful votes
A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike;
Proverbs 25:24 ESV / 310 helpful votes
It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.
Proverbs 19:13 ESV / 238 helpful votes
A foolish son is ruin to his father, and a wife's quarreling is a continual dripping of rain.

 

[TheLearner]

Yes, as difficult as it is for Christians to state this in a feminist environment, it is nevertheless true. Female submission to *husbands* appears to be a consequence of the Fall, and in particular, Eve's role in the Fall. However, I believe that in the Kingdom of God there will be absolute equality, and probably no gender at all. There will be no more need for procreation, since the full number of God's people will have been reached.

Though women inside a marriage do have to play a secondary role in relation to the family, this does not mean that women, as Christians, are in the least inferior to men. As James said, let the exalted humble themselves, and the humble exalt themselves, for purposes of equality. The mountains and hills shall be brought low, and the valleys shall be raised. And all flesh will *equally* see the salvation of God!

James 1.9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower.

I once made that mistake at Madonna University playing Calvin in a debate.

 

[TheLearner]

The question of the ages. Isaiah 45 may provide a bit of insight.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

That verse was already quoted and answered. the evil is stuff like the plagues of Egypt.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The question of the ages. Isaiah 45 may provide a bit of insight.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God created mankind

The question of the ages. Isaiah 45 may provide a bit of insight.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I think if we take time to see the order what happened it makes good sense. God created all things and then created mankind and gave them dominion over all He created.

he then gave them a word of life or death if they transgressed.

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭

you can see this part God was grieved because he had created mankind and given them dominion over the earth

“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Before man was created God had seperated good and evil

“And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then man was made in Gods image and all things were very good. The issue of evil came because of the deception

“And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;

the tree of life also in the midst of the garden,

and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man was commanded not to eat ofnthe knowledge of good and evil but our transgression then started thkngs off course

“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods will is forever life and good and blessing , but mans will became corrupted in the beginning and we constantly provoke him through continual transgression which becomes a conduit for his all Consuming wrath.

had man not transgressed evil would still be contained in Eden and not part of the world.

 

[Icedaisey]

If God created the new end and the earth, how was earth corrupted before God? How was there anything before the creator of all things?

Or are you implying earth was corrupted with God as witness? (Before, in front of, God?)

"Before man was created God had seperated good and evil." How did evil come to exist?

 

[peldom10]

I prefer the NIV, for its easy reading, as well as the ESV. However, I do check the many available translations on biblehub.com and compare how words are rendered.

And I make frequent use of lexicons. I've even gone to a local Christian university and visited the reference part of their library to get further scholarly info on certain words.

Have to asked why the new age religion bibles have been produced since the 1960's.
The answer is telling.