Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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“Could the words It's Impossible be Interpreted as If It were possible”
I suppose someone could interpret impossible as meaning possible
but I wasn’t actually trying to argue the same argument as happens so often I was just offering a thought to the op that once people are convinced scripture doesn’t really help a lot because they will find some way to reject it like interpreting impossible as meaning possible
I suppose someone could interpret impossible as meaning possible
but I wasn’t actually trying to argue the same argument as happens so often I was just offering a thought to the op that once people are convinced scripture doesn’t really help a lot because they will find some way to reject it like interpreting impossible as meaning possible
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“Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”
Hebrews 6:17-20 KJV
it’s the fact that whatever he said is certain by the oath “ by myself I have sworn “ that’s the hope that anchors us Gods word is immutable and sure he cannot be wrong or lie “
so if we believe his word we have an anchor knowing it is certain , Jesus then is the forerunner for us and intercessor for us who are coming after by the word and will of God that cannot fail
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not so much really .
I fear it will be misinterpreted it isn’t that we’re saved and then lost because we sin once , we can know what it means if we let in the doctrine of Christ
it’s his word we can’t abandon and his word is beautiful for all who receive it in hope when we see things like “ we all have to stand before the lord and answer for every deed good or bad “
we can no longer measure that by Moses word , we need desperately to hear this type of thing from the eternal judge who is trying so hard to save us that he gave his own precious blood so if we hear and believe this from the judge and don’t fall away from his word
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Luke 6:36-37 KJV
we often talk about grace and mercy the lord has given us , Jesus was teaching us to be the same way to others who don’t deserve mercy , forgiveness and no ckndemnation .
that’s where this becomes important and true not that we’re sinless perfect people but we who received mercy need to hear about giving mercy so when we stand before the lord we have mercy aplenty
I fear it will be misinterpreted it isn’t that we’re saved and then lost because we sin once , we can know what it means if we let in the doctrine of Christ
it’s his word we can’t abandon and his word is beautiful for all who receive it in hope when we see things like “ we all have to stand before the lord and answer for every deed good or bad “
we can no longer measure that by Moses word , we need desperately to hear this type of thing from the eternal judge who is trying so hard to save us that he gave his own precious blood so if we hear and believe this from the judge and don’t fall away from his word
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
Luke 6:36-37 KJV
we often talk about grace and mercy the lord has given us , Jesus was teaching us to be the same way to others who don’t deserve mercy , forgiveness and no ckndemnation .
that’s where this becomes important and true not that we’re sinless perfect people but we who received mercy need to hear about giving mercy so when we stand before the lord we have mercy aplenty
No, you misunderstood. Of course faith is necessary to come into salvation.
Those who insist salvation is not eternal are saying salvation is conditioned on our works, and God's whim. That he might choose to strip it from us if we don't labor and stress in fear we may do something to cause God to take it back.
Personally, I don't believe such arguments are professed by those in Christ. I think they assume the argument just to watch the church make an effort to change their mind.
Christians aren't afraid of losing what Jesus sealed within them for all time.
Those who insist salvation is not eternal are saying salvation is conditioned on our works, and God's whim. That he might choose to strip it from us if we don't labor and stress in fear we may do something to cause God to take it back.
Personally, I don't believe such arguments are professed by those in Christ. I think they assume the argument just to watch the church make an effort to change their mind.
Christians aren't afraid of losing what Jesus sealed within them for all time.
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The problem with the typical OSAS interpretation of I John 2:19 is not so much taking those who "went out" as those who were never in Christ to begin with. In fact, I tend to agree on that point.
The problem is that they take a simple statement by John about some people from his time and setting and then say that is true of all people in all settings.
In no way does I John 2:19 come even close to saying that anyone who leaves a church was never really a believer to begin with.
The problem is that they take a simple statement by John about some people from his time and setting and then say that is true of all people in all settings.
In no way does I John 2:19 come even close to saying that anyone who leaves a church was never really a believer to begin with.
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A major error is to define "eternal life" primarily as "living forever". Eternal life is first all a relationship with Jesus (John 17:3). And if a person does not have a relationship with Jesus then they do not have "eternal life." We must use the Biblical concept of "eternal life" and not our own definition. Thus to say that you can't lose "eternal life" because it would not then be "eternal" makes no sense at all. Eternal life will always be a relationship with Jesus that will last forever. But if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life, and thus you do not have "eternal life."
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yea I think it’s about what it says rather than that
“Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
1 John 2:18-19 KJV
A lot of
Pretenders but the devil is a deceiver and infiltrator he works within the church trying to destroy it spreading lies
They were allus dogs and sows
2Peter 2-20
For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ they are again entangled in them and overpowered the last state has become worse than the first
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
These words would have suited Judas Iscariot perfectly. Peter echoes Jesu's word it would have been better he had never been born.
Judas was never saved.
2Peter 2-20
For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ they are again entangled in them and overpowered the last state has become worse than the first
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
These words would have suited Judas Iscariot perfectly. Peter echoes Jesu's word it would have been better he had never been born.
Judas was never saved.
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He did use another word, endure. The one who endures to the end will be saved.
The saved will endure.
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Of course our salvation depends on our works. If you say otherwise, you're picking what scriptures you want to believe and ignoring the rest. Salvation by faith alone is a different gospel, a demonic one.
"But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."—James 2:18-19
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."—Revelation 20:12
"But someone will say, 'You have faith and I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."—James 2:18-19
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."—Revelation 20:12
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Your problem is John tells us exactly who they are. He tells them they were people who were part of the church. Who now are people who deny Christ. And the father who sent them (he called them antichrist)
nw if we did not have this problem today. I could agree with you. But we do have this problem today. You yourself claim this, by saying they lose salvation. Thats why of course you do not like 1 John. and want to claim this only applies to them. Not us.
nw if we did not have this problem today. I could agree with you. But we do have this problem today. You yourself claim this, by saying they lose salvation. Thats why of course you do not like 1 John. and want to claim this only applies to them. Not us.