How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
- Thread starter Aaron56
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
"
Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 29)
Please help support the mission of New Advent and get the full contents of this website as an instant download. Includes the Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers, Summa, Bible and more — all for only $19.99...
All things have been created for the service of man. The deceits, wickedness, and apostate power of Antichrist. This was prefigured at the deluge, as afterwards by the persecution of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which God permitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing; Isaiah 40:15 so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.
2. And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire. Fittingly, therefore, shall his name possess the number six hundred and sixty-six, since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels. For Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge came upon the earth, sweeping away the rebellious world, for the sake of that most infamous generation which lived in the times of Noah. And [Antichrist] also sums up every error of devised idols since the flood, together with the slaying of the prophets and the cutting off of the just. For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misaël, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man's coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception; for which things' sake a cataclysm of fire shall also come [upon the earth]."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103529.htm
The rest of the story. Wife says get off the computer now, God Bless all Daniel
Against Heresies (Book V, Chapter 29)
Please help support the mission of New Advent and get the full contents of this website as an instant download. Includes the Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers, Summa, Bible and more — all for only $19.99...
All things have been created for the service of man. The deceits, wickedness, and apostate power of Antichrist. This was prefigured at the deluge, as afterwards by the persecution of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
1. In the previous books I have set forth the causes for which God permitted these things to be made, and have pointed out that all such have been created for the benefit of that human nature which is saved, ripening for immortality that which is [possessed] of its own free will and its own power, and preparing and rendering it more adapted for eternal subjection to God. And therefore the creation is suited to [the wants of] man; for man was not made for its sake, but creation for the sake of man. Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing; Isaiah 40:15 so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.
2. And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire. Fittingly, therefore, shall his name possess the number six hundred and sixty-six, since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels. For Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge came upon the earth, sweeping away the rebellious world, for the sake of that most infamous generation which lived in the times of Noah. And [Antichrist] also sums up every error of devised idols since the flood, together with the slaying of the prophets and the cutting off of the just. For that image which was set up by Nebuchadnezzar had indeed a height of sixty cubits, while the breadth was six cubits; on account of which Ananias, Azarias, and Misaël, when they did not worship it, were cast into a furnace of fire, pointing out prophetically, by what happened to them, the wrath against the righteous which shall arise towards the [time of the] end. For that image, taken as a whole, was a prefiguring of this man's coming, decreeing that he should undoubtedly himself alone be worshipped by all men. Thus, then, the six hundred years of Noah, in whose time the deluge occurred because of the apostasy, and the number of the cubits of the image for which these just men were sent into the fiery furnace, do indicate the number of the name of that man in whom is concentrated the whole apostasy of six thousand years, and unrighteousness, and wickedness, and false prophecy, and deception; for which things' sake a cataclysm of fire shall also come [upon the earth]."
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103529.htm
The rest of the story. Wife says get off the computer now, God Bless all Daniel
-
1
- Show all
Backpeddling like mad and finding it very difficult to cover the treadmarks.
"Christ does not return to earth at the resurrection" According to scripture, he does.
The return we wait for is his visible appearance. Not a secret evactuation.
When he touches the clouds the whole earth will tremble as it did at Sinai.
2 Thes 1 (CSB)
4 Therefore, we ourselves boast about you among God’s churches—about your perseverance and faith in all
the persecutions and afflictions that you are enduring.
5 It is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment that you will be counted worthy of God’s kingdom,
for which you also are suffering,
6 since it is just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you
7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us. This will take place at the revelation
of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels,
8 when he takes vengeance with flaming fire on those who don’t know God and on those who don’t obey
the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the Lord’s presence and from his glorious strength
10 on that day when he comes to be glorified by his saints and to be marveled at by all those who have believed,
because our testimony among you was believed.
Col 3:4 (CSB)
4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
Titus 2:13 (CSB)
13 while we wait for the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Mark 13 (CSB)
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light;
25 the stars will be falling from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
27 He will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth
to the ends of heaven.
Luke 21 (CSB)
25 “Then there will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars; and there will be anguish on the earth among nations bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the waves.
26 People will faint from fear and expectation of the things that are coming on the world, because the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 But when these things begin to take place, stand up and lift your heads, because your redemption is near.”
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Hello brother and friend, how are you today?
Is there any difference??? Our Brethren who trusted the Gospel of our Lord were fed to lions (while fully alive), nailed to a cross to die slowly/increasing the suffering, ripped in two by horses, slowly skinned alive, beaten to death or worse and starved to death.
So in the Great Tribulation God actually has softened the suffering of the Saints by permitting the wicked one and his followers to behead those of us who REFUSE the mark of the beast.
Death by guillotine is, in my opinion, a very merciful way to go as compared to the previous mentioned.
What's your flavor?
Is there any difference??? Our Brethren who trusted the Gospel of our Lord were fed to lions (while fully alive), nailed to a cross to die slowly/increasing the suffering, ripped in two by horses, slowly skinned alive, beaten to death or worse and starved to death.
So in the Great Tribulation God actually has softened the suffering of the Saints by permitting the wicked one and his followers to behead those of us who REFUSE the mark of the beast.
Death by guillotine is, in my opinion, a very merciful way to go as compared to the previous mentioned.
What's your flavor?
-
1
- Show all
My understanding of what chapter 1 is conveying (2Th1) involves the following points (I've made in the past):
--in Scripture, wherever the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in the same contexts [close proximity], they refer to the SAME TIME PERIOD; so BOTH of these two chapters is the CONTEXT, and in which these same two phrases are used (referring to the SAME future TIME-PERIOD [i.e. the [7] TRIB YRS])
--chpt 2 is Paul explaining about "the day of the Lord" that the false conveyors purport "IS ALREADY HERE / IS PRESENT [perfect indicative]" and him telling WHY it's not so;
--chpt 1 uses the phrase "IN THAT DAY" ("among all those having believed, because 'the testimony of us to you' was believed IN THAT DAY"--this is not referring to the Thessalonians THEMSELVES and what THEY came to believe, prior to this writing)
--in Scripture, wherever the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in the same contexts [close proximity], they refer to the SAME TIME PERIOD; so BOTH of these two chapters is the CONTEXT, and in which these same two phrases are used (referring to the SAME future TIME-PERIOD [i.e. the [7] TRIB YRS])
--chpt 2 is Paul explaining about "the day of the Lord" that the false conveyors purport "IS ALREADY HERE / IS PRESENT [perfect indicative]" and him telling WHY it's not so;
--chpt 1 uses the phrase "IN THAT DAY" ("among all those having believed, because 'the testimony of us to you' was believed IN THAT DAY"--this is not referring to the Thessalonians THEMSELVES and what THEY came to believe, prior to this writing)
-
1
- Show all
The author of 1 Thessalonians is the SAME author of 2 Thessalonians - go figure....
Paul laid the ground work in 1 Thessalonians for the undisputed factual ORDER of our Lord's Coming and our being gathered together/up to Him - "by the word of the Lord"
2 Thessalonians 2 is not a redo/correction of 1 Thessalonians.
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thess 2
Interesting COINCIDENCE - that 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and 2 Thessalonians ch 2 are exactly mentioned in Revelation!!!!!
WOW - what a coincidence!
-
1
- Show all
It does teach that Church will be spared the satanic persecutions of great trib. The bible however not say the church will be removed before that tribulation period. Jesus described church being persecuted by enemy in Olivet discourse, and In Rev we again see church (the believers in Christ) being persecuted by and even overcome and killed matching what had told us.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Kinda hard to see AoD and flee to mountains if you are raptured up to heaven before this happens.
Pretrib simply isn't in the bible. Only posttrib is there.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
That's great tribulation and it is satan persecuting the church!
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Kinda hard to see AoD and flee to mountains if you are raptured up to heaven before this happens.
Pretrib simply isn't in the bible. Only posttrib is there.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
That's great tribulation and it is satan persecuting the church!
It's not how we would choose to gain victory. It goes against every inclination of our flesh but it is reality from Gods POV.
Rev 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony,
and they did not love their lives to the death.
I think that's why he forewarns us about this unique, short, time in human history.
Dan 7:21
As I was watching, this horn waged war against the holy ones and was prevailing over them
Rev 14:12
This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Imagine if we found ourselves in that time but had never been warned it could happen.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
^ [ @DavidTree 's Post #186]
(I've mentioned...) Paul speaks, in 1Th5:1-3, of the ARRIVAL of "the day of the Lord" time period being:
--LIKE the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman...
--Jesus spoke of these (very things) in His Olivet Discourse (but in the PLURAL--SAME WORD though, that Paul uses here in 1Th5); so Paul is referring to the INITIAL ONE (of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will follow on from that point), namely, the FIRST ONE BEING "Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"
--"the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6... so the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" is Rev6:2 the rider of the white horse with A BOW ("bow" often meaning "DECEPTION," elsewhere in Scripture);
--the "SEALS" are a part of what Rev1:1 / 1:19c /4:1 refers to AS "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (i.e. WITHIN the "7-yr Trib"--so SEAL #1 to His Rev19 "RETURN" to the earth, is the "7 years" [not to mention all that follows 4:1, some of which describes what takes place UP IN HEAVEN around the throne, chpts 4-5, as Jesus Himself will "STAND to JUDGE" by beginning with His OPENING SEAL #1 at the START of the Trib [/7-yrs]);
--in 2Th2:1-3 Paul provides the SEQUENCE (how ONE ITEM[/event] relates time-wise / sequence-wise to the OTHER ITEM[/time-period]) and says ONE THING *FIRST*--"THE DEPARTURE *FIRST*"--the one PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED in the text in v.1 (before the OTHER THING[/time-period] can be present to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" IN HIS TIME [i.e. the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" ASPECT OF "the day of the Lord," aka the 7 TRIB YEARS, that ARRIVES at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"--not at the END of all those]);
--Paul REPEATS THAT SEQUENCE 3x in this 2Th2:3-9a passage, which SEQUENCE also *agrees* with the SEQUENCE he'd already covered in 1Th4-through-5; as well as (in the SAME WAY) ALL OTHER eschatological passages covering this Subject (like Matthew 24 does, like Revelation 4:1 thru chpt 19 does, like Daniel 9:27a/b/c[26b] does, etc...)
... Many folks fail to grasp what Paul is actually conveying in chpt 2... especially due to their not "defining" the phrase "the day of the Lord" (v.2) as scripture itself defines it (as shown above, IN BRIEF), but rather as some have defined it in a "made up" way, to mean something else... and then their failing to DISTINGUISH in that chapter (or the 2-chpt context even) things that are NOT the same, as though they ARE the same
(I've mentioned...) Paul speaks, in 1Th5:1-3, of the ARRIVAL of "the day of the Lord" time period being:
--LIKE the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman...
--Jesus spoke of these (very things) in His Olivet Discourse (but in the PLURAL--SAME WORD though, that Paul uses here in 1Th5); so Paul is referring to the INITIAL ONE (of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will follow on from that point), namely, the FIRST ONE BEING "Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]"
--"the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" are EQUIVALENT to the "SEALS" of Rev6... so the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" is Rev6:2 the rider of the white horse with A BOW ("bow" often meaning "DECEPTION," elsewhere in Scripture);
--the "SEALS" are a part of what Rev1:1 / 1:19c /4:1 refers to AS "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (i.e. WITHIN the "7-yr Trib"--so SEAL #1 to His Rev19 "RETURN" to the earth, is the "7 years" [not to mention all that follows 4:1, some of which describes what takes place UP IN HEAVEN around the throne, chpts 4-5, as Jesus Himself will "STAND to JUDGE" by beginning with His OPENING SEAL #1 at the START of the Trib [/7-yrs]);
--in 2Th2:1-3 Paul provides the SEQUENCE (how ONE ITEM[/event] relates time-wise / sequence-wise to the OTHER ITEM[/time-period]) and says ONE THING *FIRST*--"THE DEPARTURE *FIRST*"--the one PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED in the text in v.1 (before the OTHER THING[/time-period] can be present to unfold upon the earth, with its "man of sin" IN HIS TIME [i.e. the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" ASPECT OF "the day of the Lord," aka the 7 TRIB YEARS, that ARRIVES at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"--not at the END of all those]);
--Paul REPEATS THAT SEQUENCE 3x in this 2Th2:3-9a passage, which SEQUENCE also *agrees* with the SEQUENCE he'd already covered in 1Th4-through-5; as well as (in the SAME WAY) ALL OTHER eschatological passages covering this Subject (like Matthew 24 does, like Revelation 4:1 thru chpt 19 does, like Daniel 9:27a/b/c[26b] does, etc...)
... Many folks fail to grasp what Paul is actually conveying in chpt 2... especially due to their not "defining" the phrase "the day of the Lord" (v.2) as scripture itself defines it (as shown above, IN BRIEF), but rather as some have defined it in a "made up" way, to mean something else... and then their failing to DISTINGUISH in that chapter (or the 2-chpt context even) things that are NOT the same, as though they ARE the same
- (like 2:1 says, "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [where WE will GO "TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR" ('the coming/presence/parousia of OUR Lord Jesus Christ') and NO ONE ELSE IN ATTENDANCE THERE! ('so [IN THIS WAY] shall WE ever be WITH / UNIONed-with [G4862!] the Lord"--NO ONE ELSE! --NOT the "FIVE [wise] VIRGINS"!! NO! (He's NOT "MARRYING" THOSE!!)]... that/v.1 is NOT the SAME as v.8's [later occurrence] "the MANIFESTATION of His presence/parousia" (i.e AT Luke 12:36-37,38,40 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (as an "ALREADY-WED" Bridegroom!)... THEN the meal [G347]!!)
^ IOW, one of the primary shortcomings of the varying "rapture-timing viewpoints" (aside from the "pre-trib viewpoint" which has the least amount of problems IN THIS AREA) is the disregarding of CHRONOLOGY ISSUES as revealed in Scripture. No viewpoint I've heard in my 45 years of studying (and discussing) the Subject comes close to presenting a better case than does the "pre-trib" perspective, I've found...
[we are exhorted to be "CORRECTLY APPORTIONING the word of truth" (not lumping it all together into one big mish-mash of MUSH ); and to distinguish the things which differ... I find that many ppl simply lump words and phrase into the same mold, and come out with a completely different msg to what the TEXT ITSELF is actually conveying, thus coming to an incorrect interpretation...]
[we are exhorted to be "CORRECTLY APPORTIONING the word of truth" (not lumping it all together into one big mish-mash of MUSH
); and to distinguish the things which differ... I find that many ppl simply lump words and phrase into the same mold, and come out with a completely different msg to what the TEXT ITSELF is actually conveying, thus coming to an incorrect interpretation...]The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ including Matthew chapters 24 & 25 tell us, who believe, when He, our KING & Bridegroom is Coming back for His Bride/His Church/His Saints/His Elect/His Witnesses/His Martyrs/His Sheep
The Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ also know and have written concerning our being Gathered Together in Him.
The author of 1 Thessalonians is the SAME author of 2 Thessalonians - go figure....
Paul laid the ground work in 1 Thessalonians for the undisputed factual ORDER of our Lord's Coming and our being gathered together/up to Him - "by the word of the Lord"
2 Thessalonians 2 is not a redo/correction of 1 Thessalonians.
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thess 2
The Apostle John agrees with the Apostle Paul and our Lord and declares this TRUTH:
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1John 2:18
Interesting COINCIDENCE - that 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and 2 Thessalonians ch 2 I John 2:18 are exactly mentioned in Revelation!!!!!
Unbelievable? or BELIEVABLE - Who do you put your trust in?
The Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ also know and have written concerning our being Gathered Together in Him.
The author of 1 Thessalonians is the SAME author of 2 Thessalonians - go figure....
Paul laid the ground work in 1 Thessalonians for the undisputed factual ORDER of our Lord's Coming and our being gathered together/up to Him - "by the word of the Lord"
2 Thessalonians 2 is not a redo/correction of 1 Thessalonians.
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thess 2
The Apostle John agrees with the Apostle Paul and our Lord and declares this TRUTH:
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that Antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1John 2:18
Interesting COINCIDENCE - that 1 Thessalonians ch 4 and 2 Thessalonians ch 2 I John 2:18 are exactly mentioned in Revelation!!!!!
Unbelievable? or BELIEVABLE - Who do you put your trust in?
-
1
- Show all
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Context of the word Tribulation and the word is used outside of the Great tribulation also. Many do not know what Jesus answered in the Olivet Discourse. I asked earlier in this thread No one I have seen answered.
I will ask again. In Matthew chapters 24- 25 what did Jesus answer?
I just said that...
...and that Paul says "the day of the Lord" ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (the very ones JESUS SPOKE OF!, and NOT as being at the END point, see)... Parallel to / EQUIVALENT of SEAL #1 at the START of the 7 years (not ARRIVING AT, or even toward, its END).
But believe as you wish, DavidTree.
...and that Paul says "the day of the Lord" ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (the very ones JESUS SPOKE OF!, and NOT as being at the END point, see)... Parallel to / EQUIVALENT of SEAL #1 at the START of the 7 years (not ARRIVING AT, or even toward, its END).
But believe as you wish, DavidTree.
Our Lord Jesus Christ said the SAME thing as the Apostles and Prophets.
You can safely and with Great Confidence put your trust in His Word.
Matthew 24:21 is TRUE
Are you saying He is not capable of keeping us through this time unto His Second Coming?
His Second Coming is clear in Scripture - He Returns and the dead in Christ Rise First = After that we who are alive and remain at His Coming are caught up (Raptured) to meet Him in the clouds. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.… Matt 24:30 -31
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” Acts 1: 10-12
You can safely and with Great Confidence put your trust in His Word.
Matthew 24:21 is TRUE
Are you saying He is not capable of keeping us through this time unto His Second Coming?
His Second Coming is clear in Scripture - He Returns and the dead in Christ Rise First = After that we who are alive and remain at His Coming are caught up (Raptured) to meet Him in the clouds. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.… Matt 24:30 -31
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” Acts 1: 10-12
No - you added this - "ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" (the very ones JESUS SPOKE OF!, and NOT as being at the END point, see).. "
You keep making the error of "adding to and taking away" from Scripture which is really really BAD to do, brother.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6
How is that you do not see 'every word of God as flawless' and you seek to help Him out............
You keep making the error of "adding to and taking away" from Scripture which is really really BAD to do, brother.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6
How is that you do not see 'every word of God as flawless' and you seek to help Him out............
-
1
- Show all
are you saying HE is not capable of taking us UP as He was?
I did not see you answer my question before you asked me your's
Many do not know what Jesus answered in the Olivet Discourse. I asked earlier in this thread No one I have seen answered.
I will ask again. In Matthew chapters 24- 25 what did Jesus answer?
What a awseome God we serve - our Lord Jesus Christ, Himself, has answered your question.
His Second Coming is clear in Scripture - He Returns and the dead in Christ Rise First = After that we who are alive and remain at His Coming are caught up (Raptured) to meet Him in the clouds. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.… Matt 24:30 -31
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” Acts 1: 10-12
God's Protection for you is in this:
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30
Protection if we believe His Word.
Confusion if we add or take away from His Word.
Amen
i love and appreciate you - we are family
His Second Coming is clear in Scripture - He Returns and the dead in Christ Rise First = After that we who are alive and remain at His Coming are caught up (Raptured) to meet Him in the clouds. 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.… Matt 24:30 -31
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.
They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” Acts 1: 10-12
God's Protection for you is in this:
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30
Protection if we believe His Word.
Confusion if we add or take away from His Word.
Amen
i love and appreciate you - we are family
I'm pointing out the parallel passages (the very same thing YOU are doing--why is it WRONG for me to do so, but FINE for YOU??)
Are you trying to suggest that Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 (in the "BEGINNING of birth PANGS" section) occurs at the same POINT IN TIME AS Matt24:29-31??
Tell me how you're understanding that, please.
Are you trying to suggest that Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 (in the "BEGINNING of birth PANGS" section) occurs at the same POINT IN TIME AS Matt24:29-31??
Tell me how you're understanding that, please.
-
1
- Show all