Saved by Water
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Regeneration occurs at the same moment as faith in Christ.
Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.
Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.
Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.
You have it backwards.
OK, so you agre that you have it backwards. Good.
By the time saved people come before the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ) and unsaved people come before the Great White Throne judgment, NO ONE will be judged on whether they are saved. So your comment is unbiblical.
Both the Bema and GWT judgments are about WORKS. But not for salvation.
Matt 10:15 - Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matt 11:22 - But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
Matt 11:24 - But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
The issue of salvation is determined the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation. John 5:24, one of the verse that you seem not to believe.
There is no common sense when a person doesn't believe what the Bible very plainly states. As you have done.
I'm not the sleepy one here. I've shown verses that refute your idea that salvation is determined at "the judgment".
Are you even aware that there are 2 separate judgments?
Then you don't believe all the promises of eternal life in the Bible, huh.
Jesus said those who believe HAVE (possess) eternal life in John 5:24.
Then in John 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish.
So, from what you've just said, you don't believe what Jesus said.
Salvation isn't applied after our physical death. It is applied WHEN we believe in Christ for salvation.
You have it backwards.
OK, so you agre that you have it backwards. Good.
By the time saved people come before the Bema (Judgment Seat of Christ) and unsaved people come before the Great White Throne judgment, NO ONE will be judged on whether they are saved. So your comment is unbiblical.
Both the Bema and GWT judgments are about WORKS. But not for salvation.
Matt 10:15 - Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Matt 11:22 - But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.
Matt 11:24 - But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
The issue of salvation is determined the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation. John 5:24, one of the verse that you seem not to believe.
There is no common sense when a person doesn't believe what the Bible very plainly states. As you have done.
I'm not the sleepy one here. I've shown verses that refute your idea that salvation is determined at "the judgment".
Are you even aware that there are 2 separate judgments?
FreeGrace2 said:
Water saves no one.
r the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Please ask the Egyptian army how their water baptism worked out for them. Oh, and the Israelites went through the Red Sea on DRY ground. They were baptized all right. The word means an "identification". The Israelites were certainly identified with Moses, as their leader, the cloud, as their spiritual leader, and identified with God's provision of deliverance FROM the literal waters of the Red Sea.
Do you understand the difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism? Mark 1:8 shows the difference.
Oh, and please ask the entire human race in Noah's day about water baptism and how that worked out for them. Noah and his family were saved FROM THE LITERAL WATER of the flood.
OK, so you also don't believe 1 Cor 10:1-5 either. Wow.
The quote you made from 1 Pet 3:21 refers to Holy Spirit baptism, not water baptism. Literal water is a ritual, as a symbol for the believer's identification with Christ.
Water saves no one.
r the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
Please ask the Egyptian army how their water baptism worked out for them. Oh, and the Israelites went through the Red Sea on DRY ground. They were baptized all right. The word means an "identification". The Israelites were certainly identified with Moses, as their leader, the cloud, as their spiritual leader, and identified with God's provision of deliverance FROM the literal waters of the Red Sea.
Do you understand the difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism? Mark 1:8 shows the difference.
Oh, and please ask the entire human race in Noah's day about water baptism and how that worked out for them. Noah and his family were saved FROM THE LITERAL WATER of the flood.
OK, so you also don't believe 1 Cor 10:1-5 either. Wow.
The quote you made from 1 Pet 3:21 refers to Holy Spirit baptism, not water baptism. Literal water is a ritual, as a symbol for the believer's identification with Christ.
FYI, there was a lot of prayer behind that posting. I took a trip yesterday and had little to do but pray in the spirit. That always pays off. Glory to God.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Jude 1:20 KJV
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, ...
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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S
I did read all of your post and do think the metaphor with the water and the ark makes sense
however, are you of the same mind as Blik and convinced that if you are not water baptized, you are actually not even saved?
the intent of the threads by Blik are not to convince people that water baptism is something a Christian should attain to, but rather an attempt to convince everyone that if you are not water baptized, then you are NOT saved
is that also your belief? or do you believe, as most, that you are saved even if you are not water baptized, but you should be water baptized as it symbolized death and resurrection with Christ
which of the two is your belief
thanks
one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporairly washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
however, are you of the same mind as Blik and convinced that if you are not water baptized, you are actually not even saved?
the intent of the threads by Blik are not to convince people that water baptism is something a Christian should attain to, but rather an attempt to convince everyone that if you are not water baptized, then you are NOT saved
is that also your belief? or do you believe, as most, that you are saved even if you are not water baptized, but you should be water baptized as it symbolized death and resurrection with Christ
which of the two is your belief
thanks
one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporairly washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
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Yes indeed = discussions here: The Previous 12 baptisms & Today's ONE Baptism
S
Specifically, the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. The water of the flood killed the rest of the population of the earth. The ark saved 8 of the population.
one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporarily washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
you must be having a slow day if want to quibble over the words from and in.
@Wansvic & @peldom10 & @KelbyofGod & @whoeverelse
of course this notion is absurd -- and that's exactly why i said it.
because it is edifying for us to confess why it is absurd:
because it takes something other than a person's body getting wet to wash sins away.
now you guys tell me about infant baptism, OK?
is it any different than just spraying down the wicked with a hose & expecting salvation results?
of course this notion is absurd -- and that's exactly why i said it.
because it is edifying for us to confess why it is absurd:
because it takes something other than a person's body getting wet to wash sins away.
now you guys tell me about infant baptism, OK?
is it any different than just spraying down the wicked with a hose & expecting salvation results?
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the error that water washes away sin, is actually very serious. it adds a work people must do in order to make up for something that apparently Jesus did not do. those who insist water washes away sin, and seem to go to great lengths in scripture manipulation to do so, are presenting a FALSE gospel. it is not the gospel presented in scripture and simply erroneous
sadly, those who practice this error, indicate they do not believe that Jesus did enough. the actual gospel as found in scripture, tells us that ONLY the blood of Christ saves a person from sin. baptism symbolizes our new life in Christ...it does not take any sin away and does not save us. we should be baptized as indicated in scripture, but you are not 'unsaved' if you have trusted in Christ if for some reason you are not water baptized.
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 3:15
so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
and many many more verses, chapters and entire books devoted to this fact that only Christ saves and nothing we can do adds to our salvation. salvation is by faith in Christ and in HIS work for us, which is a completed work and needs nothing added to it
sadly, those who practice this error, indicate they do not believe that Jesus did enough. the actual gospel as found in scripture, tells us that ONLY the blood of Christ saves a person from sin. baptism symbolizes our new life in Christ...it does not take any sin away and does not save us. we should be baptized as indicated in scripture, but you are not 'unsaved' if you have trusted in Christ if for some reason you are not water baptized.
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
John 3:15
so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
and many many more verses, chapters and entire books devoted to this fact that only Christ saves and nothing we can do adds to our salvation. salvation is by faith in Christ and in HIS work for us, which is a completed work and needs nothing added to it
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Specifically, the ark saved Noah and family FROM the water. The water of the flood killed the rest of the population of the earth. The ark saved 8 of the population.
Christ says the one believing in Him has passed from judgement into life
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
(John 5:24)
there is no mention of H2O in this verse -- mind you, i am not arguing against baptism at all. but we need to understand that it is belief in Him that saves us from judgement, not water. we are washed by His word ((Ephesians 5:26, John 15:3))
rituals are shadows: the water in baptism is representative of His word, which judges the lost and washes the saved.
our faith is in a Person, not a sacrament.
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John 5:24 mentions His word and belief and God here declares that those things together produce eternal life & salvation from judgement.
not H2O, but Christ.
if the Bible taught H2O baptism saved we should evangelize not with the gospel and the scripture but by walking around with squirt guns & buckets.
that is not the case.
Christ baptized no one with H2O. He did that on purpose; He is omniscient God. He baptizes with fire and with spirit.
not H2O, but Christ.
if the Bible taught H2O baptism saved we should evangelize not with the gospel and the scripture but by walking around with squirt guns & buckets.
that is not the case.
Christ baptized no one with H2O. He did that on purpose; He is omniscient God. He baptizes with fire and with spirit.
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what I said below:
one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporarily washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
you must be having a slow day if want to quibble over the words from and in.
one other thing though.....water did not save Noah and his family....the ark saved them in the water...Christ is the ark (metaphor)...the water would surely have seen them all drowned without the ark., there is a difference there. water may have temporarily washed the earth clean, but it also KILLED all on the earth
you must be having a slow day if want to quibble over the words from and in.
Water is dangerous. It kills people and animals. Why some believers get the notion that water baptism saves is sad.
It is the baptism with the Holy Spirit that saves us. That baptism occurs the moment one believes in the Lord Jesus for salvation.
And 1 Pet 3:21 makes that point.
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You supply John 5:24 as evidence that water baptism is not required. When in fact it speaks to the very truth that it is.
Believing in Jesus is not just recognizing who he is. Belief requires accepting everything that he said while here on earth, as well as the commandments he gave to his apostles through the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1:1-2
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Notice what the apostles taught after receiving the Holy Ghost, and remember as the scripture above shows the commandment came directly from Jesus through the Holy Ghost. All who believed were commanded to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
What you seem to fail to realize is that to reject what God's word states is to in fact reject Jesus who is the word manifested in the flesh.
"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48
Believing in Jesus is not just recognizing who he is. Belief requires accepting everything that he said while here on earth, as well as the commandments he gave to his apostles through the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1:1-2
The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Notice what the apostles taught after receiving the Holy Ghost, and remember as the scripture above shows the commandment came directly from Jesus through the Holy Ghost. All who believed were commanded to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sin. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
What you seem to fail to realize is that to reject what God's word states is to in fact reject Jesus who is the word manifested in the flesh.
"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48
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