Sabbath

[Jocund]

I've already addressed the "2 mile" scripture being in the same chapter as the law being "until heaven and earth disappear" and how doing and teaching law/commandments or not effects our place in heaven.... according to the Messiah. Heaven and earth do not disappear until Revelation 21:1.

IMHO... All you're doing is pulling idioms out of scripture to support lawlessness.


Mathew 24:11-12

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.


Revelation 22:14

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

You continually make the claim that not observing OT covenants is "lawlessness" and that every reference "law" in the NT is about OT law. The NT covenant is based on the Law of Christ. If someone does not follow OT commandments that does not make them lawless.

You put the Mosaic 10 commandments on a pedalstal but then overlook OT laws on circumcision which is an example that Paul directly addresses in the NT.

You are free to partake of traditions and other covenants in addition to the NT covenant, but it not obligated by the covenant of the NT.

 

[MalikB]

anyone under the law refusing to participate in pascha was worthy of death.

what do you say?
delete the jots and tittles you don't like, judge others by the ones you like?

You ignoring what I have repeated multiple times shows you have no truth in you.

 

[MalikB]

You continually make the claim that not observing OT covenants is "lawlessness" and that every reference "law" in the NT is about OT law. The NT covenant is based on the Law of Christ. If someone does not follow OT commandments that does not make them lawless.

You put the Mosaic 10 commandments on a pedalstal but then overlook OT laws on circumcision which is an example that Paul directly addresses in the NT.

You are free to partake of traditions and other covenants in addition to the NT covenant, but it not obligated by the covenant of the NT.

New covenant does not equal new law. The Messiah did not come here to teach that what his Father originally said was forever on this earth is no longer forever. There is nothing new under the sun... What was then, is now... and what will be "until heaven and earth disappear."

We all "overlook" laws... but there is a big difference between doing that intentionally and just being unaware. Like I've just stated about circumcision, I will study the topic more so that I have a more stable belief on whether or not this law was one that was made for all people at all times. As I've seen with Romans 14, Romans 7, Romans 2, Romans 3, Colossians 2, Galatians 2 and 3, etc., Paul's verses are constantly taken out of context and misinterpreted just like Peter warns about in 2 Peter 3:16-17.... So I'm not going just grab a couple surface level scriptures from Paul about circumcision and jump on the bandwagon.

Regardless of what I conclude about what Paul says about circumcision, in my eyes... him alone does not outrank a combination of all the scriptures from Mathew, Luke, John, Peter, James, Revelation and even Paul himself that I have been posting. Very few of those scriptures have been addressed, and many of them are very clear about the law/commandments still being in effect and playing a role in judgement. I've addressed scripture after scripture regarding the misinterpretations that people have presented from Paul, with very little that has been addressed regarding how I am misinterpreting all of these scriptures from all of these other authors. Everyone just ignores the other scriptures and points back to something Paul said that I already refuted. Who is really doing the "overlooking" here?

Again... New covenant, does not mean new law.... Just like new lease does automatically mean the "no dog" or "no drug" stipulations go away.

 

[DavidTree]

New covenant does not equal new law. The Messiah did not come here to teach that what his Father originally said was forever on this earth is no longer forever. There is nothing new under the sun... What was then, is now... and what will be "until heaven and earth disappear."

We all "overlook" laws... but there is a big difference between doing that intentionally and just unaware. Like I've just stated about circumcision, I will study the topic more so that I have a more stable belief on whether or not this law was one that was made for all people at all times. As I've seen with Romans 14, Romans 7, Romans 2, Romans 3, Colossians 2, Galatians 2 and 3, etc., Paul's verses are constantly taken out of context and misinterpreted just like Peter warns about in 2 Peter 3:16-17.... So I'm not going just grab a couple surface level scriptures from Paul about circumcision and jump on the bandwagon.

Regardless of what I conclude about what Paul says about circumcision, in my eyes... him alone does not outrank a combination of all the scriptures from Mathew, Luke, John, Peter, James, Revelation and even Paul himself that I have been posting. Very few of those scriptures have been addressed, and many of them are very clear about the law/commandments still being in effect and playing a role in judgement. I've addressed scripture after scripture regarding the misinterpretations that people have presented from Paul, with very little that has been addressed regarding how I am misinterpreting all of these scriptures from all of these other authors. Everyone just ignores the other scriptures and points back to something Paul said that I already refuted. Who is really doing the "overlooking" here?

Again... New covenant, does not mean new law.... Just like new lease does automatically mean the "no dog" or "no drug" stipulations go away.

Brother, forgive me, i just noticed this - can you share (brief and sweet) what you are refuting Paul in - Thank You, God Bless

 

[MalikB]

Brother, forgive me, i just noticed this - can you share (brief and sweet) what you are refuting Paul in - Thank You, God Bless

Hey David. It wasn't really Paul himself that I have refuted (yet, lol), It has been peoples interpretations of his writings. Too much to put in one post, but I have responded to many verses from Paul that are often used in modern Christianity to say that God's law has been done away with. Romans 2, 3, 7, 14, Colossians 2, Galatians 2 and 3 are the passages I can think of that I have addressed the most times on this thread.

 

[gb9]

You ignoring what I have repeated multiple times shows you have no truth in you.

^ you mean posthuman is shredding your theology, and you cannot refute what he is saying.

tell the truth we all see it. so do you.

 

[MalikB]

^ you mean posthuman is shredding your theology, and you cannot refute what he is saying.

tell the truth we all see it. so do you.

No, you both are just in an echo chamber.

 

[DavidTree]

Hey David. It wasn't really Paul himself that I have refuted (yet, lol), It has been peoples interpretations of his writings. Too much to put in one post, but I have responded to many verses from Paul that are often used in modern Christianity to say that God's law has been done away with. Romans 2, 3, 7, 14, Colossians 2, Galatians 2 and 3 are the passages I can think of that I have addressed the most times on this thread.

Isn't the Law of the OT still in effect for lawbreakers (Jesus said to those Jews who did not believe Him - "I will not judge you, but Moses (OT Law) in whom you trust, he will be your judge." Including Paul's account in Romans.
But we who are in Christ are no longer under the OT Law as we are now protected from the Law by Grace and Faith in the Finished Work/JESUS on the Cross AND His Resurrection AND Ascension to the Right Hand of the Father.

 

[rayzor]

in response to MallkB well its not suppose to be Paul really it's suppose to be god speaking through Paul.Now we all know that there are translation differences and that the simple believe every word.Jeremiah 8:8 How do we say, we are wise,and the law of the lord is with us?Lo, Centainly in vain made he it;For the lying pen of the scribe has handle it falsely

 

[posthuman]

You ignoring what I have repeated multiple times shows you have no truth in you.

who do you love more? your ritual inactivity or your neighbor?

Jesus says give to anyone who asks you -- but if your boss asks you today, you will say no?
because it's today??
did Jesus ever say that?
nope.

you don't comprehend sabbath. you think it's carnal.

 

[Kidron]

1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born from God, and everyone who loves the parent also loves the child. 2 This is how we know that we love God’s children: we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult

"Love to keep His commandments" is not teaching that if you dont keep them, you go to hell.

"loving to keep commandments"........you notice this POINT< that John is making, = happens after you are Born' FROM GOD.

So, the new Birth, has happened, and not based on commandment keeping.
The "love of the word, and commandments" is the spiritual bi-product, of already being born again.

This is DISCIPLESHIP, which is the person doing this......"present your body a living sacrifice"........and you do that not to be saved or to stay saved...........you "take up your cross", because you are Born again, already.

 

[MalikB]

Isn't the Law of the OT still in effect for lawbreakers (Jesus said to those Jews who did not believe Him - "I will not judge you, but Moses (OT Law) in whom you trust, he will be your judge." Including Paul's account in Romans.
But we who are in Christ are no longer under the OT Law as we are now protected from the Law by Grace and Faith in the Finished Work/JESUS on the Cross AND His Resurrection AND Ascension to the Right Hand of the Father.

I know that that is the common belief that modern Christianity teaches, but I don't believe in that overall assessment of what the scriptures say.

I ultimately believe that the issue was never the law. The issue was mankind not following the law how it was always meant to be. In order for a new covenant (contract) to be created, the debt owed on the first one had to be paid. The Messiah's body "fulfilled" that covenant by paying the penalties for breaking the law (sin). This is why the earthly penalties from the first covenant (e.g. animal sacrifice) no longer apply. However, there is a difference between the penalties for breaking the law and the law itself. The Messiah did not tear down the speed limit sign and say that law no longer applies, he just paid one big speeding ticket for us.

Not only did the Messiah pay of the debt owed from the first covenant, he retaught us how the law was always meant to be so that we had a second chance under this renewed covenant.

 

[MalikB]

who do you love more? your ritual inactivity or your neighbor?

Jesus says give to anyone who asks you -- but if your boss asks you today, you will say no?
because it's today??
did Jesus ever say that?
nope.

you don't comprehend sabbath. you think it's carnal.

Which do you love more... God or your sin?


1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born from God, and everyone who loves the parent also loves the child. 2 This is how we know that we love God’s children: we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult

 

[DavidTree]

I know that that is the common belief that modern Christianity teaches, but I don't believe in that overall assessment of what the scriptures say.

I ultimately believe that the issue was never the law. The issue was mankind not following the law how it was always meant to be. In order for a new covenant (contract) to be created, the debt owed on the first one had to be paid. The Messiah's body "fulfilled" that covenant by paying the penalties for breaking the law (sin). This is why the earthly penalties from the first covenant (e.g. animal sacrifice) no longer apply. However, there is a difference between the penalties for breaking the law and the law itself. The Messiah did not tear down the speed limit sign and say that law no longer applies, he just paid one big speeding ticket for us.

Not only did the Messiah pay of the debt owed from the first covenant, he retaught us how the law was always meant to be so that we had a second chance under this renewed covenant.

Dear Brother, First = Love and Peace in Christ to you

No one was able to keep the Law, except ONE = the Lord Jesus Christ...........VICTORY..........HALLELUJAH Praise be to GOD - Amen

You agree, He did that for us - Amen
What Christ did not do was place us back under the Law, that no man past, present or future is able to keep, to the Satisfaction of the Father.

Dear Brother, you are not an Apostle and cannot override what the Lord and the Apostles wrote down for us to follow.

In His Love - Follow Grace and the Holy Spirit for He will guide you into all Truth - "Thy Word is TRUTH" - Amen

 

[MalikB]

"Love to keep His commandments" is not teaching that if you dont keep them, you go to hell.

"loving to keep commandments"........you notice this POINT< that John is making, = happens after you are Born' FROM GOD.

So, the new Birth, has happened, and not based on commandment keeping.
The "love of the word, and commandments" is the spiritual bi-product, of already being born again.

This is DISCIPLESHIP, which is the person doing this......"present your body a living sacrifice"........and you do that not to be saved or to stay saved...........you "take up your cross", because you are Born again, already.

No body is going to be perfect. I've never said that failing to be perfect in keeping the law/commandments automatically grants you a ticket to hell. I have said time and time again that we will all fall short and require grace for salvation. However, our works represent our faith... playing a role in how we are judged.


Romans 2:6-11


6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.

13 For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified.


Matthew 5:18-19


18 because I tell all of you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. 19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven


James 2:21-22

21 Our ancestor Abraham was justified by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar, wasn’t he? 22 You see that his faith worked together with what he did, and by his actions his faith was made complete


Revelation 22:14

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[MalikB]

Dear Brother, First = Love and Peace in Christ to you

No one was able to keep the Law, except ONE = the Lord Jesus Christ...........VICTORY..........HALLELUJAH Praise be to GOD - Amen

You agree, He did that for us - Amen
What Christ did not do was place us back under the Law, that no man past, present or future is able to keep, to the Satisfaction of the Father.

Dear Brother, you are not an Apostle and cannot override what the Lord and the Apostles wrote down for us to follow.

In His Love - Follow Grace and the Holy Spirit for He will guide you into all Truth - "Thy Word is TRUTH" - Amen

Peace to you. I don't claim to be an apostle. I just prioritize what the scriptures say over the traditions of the church. If you disagree with something I said we can exchange passages and our beliefs on those passages one at a time.. and let the scriptures have the final say.

 

[DavidTree]

Peace to you. I don't claim to be an apostle. I just prioritize what the scriptures say over the traditions of the church. If you disagree with something I said we can exchange passages and our beliefs on those passages one at a time.. and let the scriptures have the final say.

Yes, agree, i have to work now so maybe later - thank you

 

[DavidTree]

SOLA SCRIPTURA where idols are crushed to dust, where religion dies, where men are made ALIVE and
where God is Glorified.

 

[MalikB]

in response to MallkB well its not suppose to be Paul really it's suppose to be god speaking through Paul.Now we all know that there are translation differences and that the simple believe every word.Jeremiah 8:8 How do we say, we are wise,and the law of the lord is with us?Lo, Centainly in vain made he it;For the lying pen of the scribe has handle it falsely

In the bottom right corner of the post there is a "reply" button if you want to reply directly to a post.

The bible (yes Paul too) is not "the word of God. What God says (his words) is the word of God. Like you said, there are many translations... there are bibles in the East that have scriptures we don't have in the west.... Some older bibles had the Apocrypha, etc.

Maybe this wasn't what you were trying to say, but the bible is not infallible. Even the bible itself says that it can be changed...



Revelation 22:18-19


18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book. 19 If anyone takes away any words from the book of this prophecy, God will take away his portion of the tree of life and the holy city that are described in this book.

The fact that there are penalties associated with making changes to scripture, shows that it can be done.

 

[posthuman]

Which do you love more... God or your sin?


1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born from God, and everyone who loves the parent also loves the child. 2 This is how we know that we love God’s children: we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult

i will work for anyone who asks today, but you will not.
i will consider myself their servant for the sake of the Lord.
you will consider ritual inactivity more important than love for your neighbor.

which one pleases God? that's the question.

you say we are under the law,
the gospel says we are not.

what pleases God?
truth or lies? carnality or spirituality?

the scripture says do let anyone judge you over a sabbath day
you say, judge everyone over sabbath day

what is truth?