Paul's Conversion

[BillG]

Verse 4 makes the context of the scripture you reference clear. Man did nothing to warrant God providing man with a Savior. It is His mercy that saves us through our obedience to His command of water baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Which is only made possible by Jesus Christ our Savior.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

If we are required to do something to receive mercy then it's not mercy.
It is by his mercy we are saved.
This mercy is the forgiveness of sins through the death and resurrection of Jesus.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Wansvic]

Ok so what you are really saying if we are not baptised then we are not saved?
Therefore baptism saves?
If so then faith is not needed?

I didn't say that.

 

[Wansvic]

Post this verse please...I'm pretty sure it says that Ananias placed his hands upon Saul and Saul received the Holy Ghost. After that, Paul was baptized. Acts is a transitional book, not a doctrinal book.

See Acts 9:17-18 and Acts 22:16 below. These records speak to receiving the Holy Ghost and being baptized in water. Paul had control of whether to obey Ananias in submitting to water baptism. However, he had no control over receiving the Holy Ghost.

Acts 9:17-18
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Acts 22:15-16
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Another point is that Paul was still sharing the need for people to comply with God's mandate to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and receive the Holy Ghost 20 years after it was first presented on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-6)

 

[Kidron]

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

And yet Jesus never water baptized anyone.

So, that verse is entirely Spiritual, and the "fire"... is not "tongues of fire" as the Charismatics love to misquote their favorite verse.

 

[Wansvic]

So do you.
I have no problems telling belivers to be baptised.
If you had read one of my earlier posts I said it should be done straight away when someone places their faith in Jesus.

I don't believe baptism saves us.

Please look at what the word actually says:

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

 

[BillG]

Please look at what the word actually says:

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16

Just answer the question.

Do you need to be baptised to be saved.

I have said I don't believe you have to be baptised to be saved.

Please just answer my question.
Don't avoid.
If you keep doing so then you have no integrity or credibility.

I will repeat again for me.

Baptism does not save us our sins were forgiven and washed away on the cross.
Removed as far as the east is from the west and buried under the deepest ocean.

 

[BillG]

And yet Jesus never water baptized anyone.

So, that verse is entirely Spiritual, and the "fire"... is not "tongues of fire" as the Charismatics love to misquote their favorite verse.

Agree totally.

I am not a charismatic (though don't fully understand it) but I was told by one that because I did not speak in tongues it was evidence I was not saved.
Sad thing I went forward for prayer cause I was struggling and that was the response.
Then I was asked would I like to speak in tongues and was given a few words to constantly repeat.

I left as quickly as a bullet from a gun.

I carried that burden for numerous years believing I wasn't saved.

That this just as despicable as saying you must be baptised to be saved.

Those who lay such heavy burdens on fellow believers will answer for this before Jesus.

 

[Kidron]

According to the word that's when God remits one's personal sin.

Listen,

IN The devil's version of the bible, the Douay Rheims, the devil caused the translator to translate...."Born of water,", in John 3, as :

"Born AGAIN by water".

See that change? That is a Satanic mistranslation.

All approved Greek texts and all real bibles, in John 3 say...>>"born of water".....so that you know this is you being born of your Mother when her WATER BREAKS, and out comes the BABY"

See that? That is how you are born of water on EARTH.

Now, .....Jesus then says, you must have a 2nd Birthday......>"Born AGAIN".

See that? Thats your Spiritual birth, performed by GOD's Holy Spirit.

So, the Catholic Devil's bible says......>"Born AGAIN by water"..........and that is teaching that the WATER is the Spirit of God, which denies that God is the Holy Spirit.

Here is the reality.
We are born again, SPIRITUALLY, by the SPIRIT OF GOD........not by water, as the Devil's bible teaches.

So, when a person is teaching that WATER causes the Spiritual Birth, then they are substituting WATER for the Spirit of God, as redemption.
That is an extreme blasphemy.
Make sure you dont teach this blasphemy of "water saves" or "water causes the new birth".....Wansvic.

 

[SophieT]

it's a wonder we aren't told that all of Pharaoh's army were baptized in the Red Sea

I suppose some might say that is really bad humor, but these saved by water threads are enough already

 

[SophieT]

Agree totally.

I am not a charismatic (though don't fully understand it) but I was told by one that because I did not speak in tongues it was evidence I was not saved.
Sad thing I went forward for prayer cause I was struggling and that was the response.
Then I was asked would I like to speak in tongues and was given a few words to constantly repeat.

I left as quickly as a bullet from a gun.

I carried that burden for numerous years believing I wasn't saved.

That this just as despicable as saying you must be baptised to be saved.

Those who lay such heavy burdens on fellow believers will answer for this before Jesus.

awfully sorry this happened to you

the Pharisees still have their tribe active in religious circles

ONLY the blood of Christ saves....no water...no tongues (VERY abused gift) no nothing but Jesus blood shed for us

you would think that someone who insists on using the OT as a constant reference would know this by the fact that the blood of animals ran off the altar daily. but nope. gotta add other components

and then the Sabbath keepers and the SDA and mormons and the JW's....keeps the devils messengers quite busy

 

[Kidron]

Agree totally.

I am not a charismatic (though don't fully understand it) but I was told by one that because I did not speak in tongues it was evidence I was not saved.
.

Brother, the proof you are saved is that you are born again.
That's the only actual proof.
So, when you gave God your faith in Christ, because you knew that Christ is Savior and you felt that pull, that leading that heart drawing to come to JESUS....., God took your faith and gave you His very righteousness., that very instant.
Done deal.
The bumper sticker reads......>"if you take Christ, God takes you".
He promised.....and He will every time.
Philippians 1:6 says that God starts salvation in you and God finishes it for you.

And about those Charismatics....
They all teach that you can lose your salvation, so, thats the proof they are all "fallen from Grace'.
See, if you believe you can lose your salvation, then that is because you dont BELIEVE THAT CHRIST keeps you saved.
= "fallen from Grace".
Within this sect or cult, you can find...>"word of Faith" churches, and they are Charismatic, but most are not fallen from Grace.
They know that Salvation is Eternal Life, and that Eternal life is not temporary............ as Jesus who is Eternal Life in IN US.
So, where He is, we are.......and where He goes.........we go.

------------------------------------------------------------

Reader,
Let me show you a way to argue for the Cross and against a heretic who tries the....>"well as long as i keep my faith, I stay saved.""

Tell them that Faith is not the Savior. God is the Savior.
God saves THROUGH Faith......
Tell them not to have "faith in faith", but to only have Faith in Christ.
See that?

or, if they are this type heretic......."well, as long as you abide in Christ, then you are saved".... "but if dont abide, then you are lost"..

Tell them. "We are not saved by doing anything.....we are saved because JESUS ABIDES IN US>...>"Christ in you, the hope of Glory".

Then they will disagree, and say.....>"see this symbolic verse that says if we dont abide, .. then we are cast away as branches and burned".

You can ask them.....>"Why are you teaching a symbolic verse, as a literal verse".......and you can ask them......>"are you a branch or a person"? And you can ask them...>"who is it that gathers up the branches,...????
They will have no idea,.
See, they are not trying to be honest, they are only tying to cause a real believer to feel condemnation and begin fo fear that they can lose their salvaiton.
See, that is why these Devil led heretics exist on Forums......Its to try to change the Gospel of Grace into >works and water<, or its to try to ruin a believers faith, and get them caught up in....."what if ive lost my salvation".... = FEAR.
its really so very DEVILISH, what these people try to do... to other REAL Believers.

So, for the benefit of the new believer, or the young in faith who understands what Grace is, and how the Blood of Jesus makes you clean all the time, for eternity.........a good thing to know is this...

= If a born again Christian, went to hell, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, who are IN ALL THE BORN AGAIN, will be going to Hell also, as Christ told us that He would never leave us or forsake us, and that means...>"im always going to be IN YOU">....
Saint, you are always going to be "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".....always.
So, where we go, Jesus goes, and Saint,..... Christ wont be going to hell, and neither will you, if you are born again.

 

[SophieT]

And about those Charismatics....
They all teach that you can lose your salvation, so, thats the proof they are all "fallen from Grace'.

ummm...be careful here cause that is not true

I'm not Pentecostal or Charismatic, but they do not all teach that...some do...just as some teach you are not saved unless you are water baptized

not all who believe the gifts are still in operation believe the same

let's not paint with such a broad brush. it is not helpful and creates suspicion and division

 

[SophieT]

Within this sect or cult, you can find...>"word of Faith" churches, and they are Charismatic, but most are not fallen from Grace.
They know that Salvation is Eternal Life, and that Eternal life is not temporary............ as Jesus who is Eternal Life in IN US.
So, where He is, we are.......and where He goes.........we go.

so are you calling Charismatics a cult ?

 

[BillG]

Brother, the proof you are saved is that you are born again.
That's the only actual proof.
So, when you gave God your faith in Christ, because you knew that Christ is Savior and you felt that pull, that leading that heart drawing to come to JESUS....., God took your faith and gave you His very righteousness., that very instant.
Done deal.
The bumper sticker reads......>"if you take Christ, God takes you".
He promised.....and He will every time.
Philippians 1:6 says that God starts salvation in you and God finishes it for you.

And about those Charismatics....
They all teach that you can lose your salvation, so, thats the proof they are all "fallen from Grace'.
See, if you believe you can lose your salvation, then that is because you dont BELIEVE THAT CHRIST keeps you saved.
= "fallen from Grace".
Within this sect or cult, you can find...>"word of Faith" churches, and they are Charismatic, but most are not fallen from Grace.
They know that Salvation is Eternal Life, and that Eternal life is not temporary............ as Jesus who is Eternal Life in IN US.
So, where He is, we are.......and where He goes.........we go.

------------------------------------------------------------

Reader,
Let me show you a way to argue for the Cross and against a heretic who tries the....>"well as long as i keep my faith, I stay saved.""

Tell them that Faith is not the Savior. God is the Savior.
God saves THROUGH Faith......
Tell them not to have "faith in faith", but to only have Faith in Christ.
See that?

or, if they are this type heretic......."well, as long as you abide in Christ, then you are saved".... "but if dont abide, then you are lost"..

Tell them. "We are not saved by doing anything.....we are saved because JESUS ABIDES IN US>...>"Christ in you, the hope of Glory".

Then they will disagree, and say.....>"see this symbolic verse that says if we dont abide, .. then we are cast away as branches and burned".

You can ask them.....>"Why are you teaching a symbolic verse, as a literal verse".......and you can ask them......>"are you a branch or a person"? And you can ask them...>"who is it that gathers up the branches,...????
They will have no idea, and neither does the New Testament..
See, they are not trying to be honest, they are only tying to cause a real believer to feel condemnation and begin fo fear that they can lose their salvaiton.
See, that is why these Devil led heretics exist on Forums......Its to try to change the Gospel of Grace into >works and water<, or its to try to ruin a believers faith, and get them caught up in....."what if ive lost my salvation".... = FEAR.
its really so very DEVILISH, what these people try to do... to other REAL Believers.

So, for the benefit of the new believer, or the young in faith who understands what Grace is, and how the Blood of Jesus makes you clean all the time, for eternity.........a good thing to know is this...

= f a born again Christian, went to hell, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, who are IN ALL THE BORN AGAIN, will be going to Hell also, as Christ told us that He would never leave us or forsake us, and that means...>"im always going to be IN YOU">....
Saint, you are always going to be "the Temple of the Holy Spirit".....always.
So, where we go, Jesus goes, and Saint,..... Christ wont be going to hell, and neither will you, if you are born again.

I learned the truth the hard way.
Praise Jesus though he broke those chains that bound me from so called Christians.

That is why I will always fight these Pharisees tooth and nail.
Shame on them and they bring shame on Jesus and I will never ever let those who I know who have had these millstones placed on their neck keep carrying it.

We must all fight against the heresy taught and release genuine belivers to be free in Jesus.

 

[BillG]

so are you calling Charismatics a cult ?

I don't think he was saying that.
He said most are not fallen from grace.

I suppose we need to realise there will be some bad apples in the pot.
Yet Paul says their works that they built on the foundation of Jesus (teaching) will be tested, yet they will be saved if all burned up.

 

[SophieT]

I don't think he was saying that.
He said most are not fallen from grace.

I suppose we need to realise there will be some bad apples in the pot.
Yet Paul says their works that they built on the foundation of Jesus (teaching) will be tested, yet they will be saved if all burned up.

ok, but I would like to 'hear' his response please

he did pretty much paint all Charismatics as being the same in post 71:

And about those Charismatics....
They all teach that you can lose your salvation, so, thats the proof they are all "fallen from Grace'.
See, if you believe you can lose your salvation, then that is because you dont BELIEVE THAT CHRIST keeps you saved.
= "fallen from Grace".
Within this sect or cult, you can find...>"word of Faith" churches, and they are Charismatic, but most are not fallen from Grace.
They know that Salvation is Eternal Life, and that Eternal life is not temporary............ as Jesus who is Eternal Life in IN US.
So, where He is, we are.......and where He goes.........we go.

so I would like him to answer. thanks

 

[SophieT]

guess we'll see

maybe later

 

[awelight]

The OP is obsessed with water. He will not be happy on judgment day. Good luck. Many have tried to show him.. Maybe you can get through with the help of God

I hate to be sarcastic towards anyone but this needs to be said.

Wansvic is so hung-up on water, I wonder if he thinks Pharaoh's chariot army was baptized when the red sea collapsed upon them. Maybe the Earth was baptized in the Great Flood.

Sorry just could not help myself.

 

[awelight]

it's a wonder we aren't told that all of Pharaoh's army were baptized in the Red Sea

I suppose some might say that is really bad humor, but these saved by water threads are enough already

I posted something quite similar to your post a few minutes later. Didn't know you had said this before I posted. Funny coincidence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Verse 4 makes the context of the scripture you reference clear. Man did nothing to warrant God providing man with a Savior. It is His mercy that saves us through our obedience to His command of water baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Which is only made possible by Jesus Christ our Savior.

Titus 3:4-7
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

My God

It’s Gods mercy not our obedience if it’s our obedience it’s not Mercy it’s a reward