Do Animals Enter Condemnation or Paradise?
- Thread starter posthuman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
it's evil. we all know it, instinctively, and the scripture backs it up ((Proverbs 12:10 for example))
why would it matter if they weren't also living souls with the spirit of life?
it wouldn't matter. it would be like mowing the grass or pulling a weed from a garden.
but it does matter, and the creation itself teaches us that. killing animals for no reason is evil - it's murderous.
killing to eat, or to protect yourself and your loved ones, isn't the same thing as killing just in order to kill.
the sacrifices for sin in the OT are meant to provoke sorrow. an innocent life is being substituted for the life of the one who sins.
that's supposed to provoke repentance. it's not an 'easy ticket out of culpability' like some people describe it.
no vegan would ever describe it as an easy-out. they would describe it as murder: does the atheist have more wisdom than we do?
we know that without even being told. why?
why would it matter if they weren't also living souls with the spirit of life?
it wouldn't matter. it would be like mowing the grass or pulling a weed from a garden.
but it does matter, and the creation itself teaches us that. killing animals for no reason is evil - it's murderous.
killing to eat, or to protect yourself and your loved ones, isn't the same thing as killing just in order to kill.
the sacrifices for sin in the OT are meant to provoke sorrow. an innocent life is being substituted for the life of the one who sins.
that's supposed to provoke repentance. it's not an 'easy ticket out of culpability' like some people describe it.
no vegan would ever describe it as an easy-out. they would describe it as murder: does the atheist have more wisdom than we do?
we know that without even being told. why?
I don’t think the Bible explains that one , though we’re looking forward to a new earth and he did create the animals to fill the earth in the beginning so I think there are going to be indications like this one speaking of how animals will behave in the everlasting earth to come we see animal behavior completely changed back to the beginning when they didn’t kill each other
“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.”
Isaiah 11:6-7
everything to come in christs promises is heartening back to the beginning before sin
“And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.”
Genesis 1:30 KJV
lions didn’t hunt gazelle they ate herbs . Also it occurs that Hod holds animals to account for killing just as man
It seems animals are equated into this at least
“And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.”
Genesis 9:5-6 KJV
so if they are held to account for killing a man , it seems as if they can sin at least in a vague reference we also know they have spirit
“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”
Ecclesiastes 3:21 KJV
anything with the breath of life and blood came out from the source of life Gods spirit. And he created thier bodies like he did ours
it seems to me that there’s a lot we don’t know about the subject but it’s also clear animals are very important to God he knows when even a sparrow falls , he also saved a population of animals through the ark just as he did a small population of Men while many more men drowned outside
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
…The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.”
Isaiah 65:17, 25 KJV
it stands to reckon that those sacrifices under the law for sin would inherit the new earth and also whatever beings the lord has chosen to be with forever
“The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.”
Isaiah 11:6-7
everything to come in christs promises is heartening back to the beginning before sin
“And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.”
Genesis 1:30 KJV
lions didn’t hunt gazelle they ate herbs . Also it occurs that Hod holds animals to account for killing just as man
It seems animals are equated into this at least
“And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.”
Genesis 9:5-6 KJV
so if they are held to account for killing a man , it seems as if they can sin at least in a vague reference we also know they have spirit
“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”
Ecclesiastes 3:21 KJV
anything with the breath of life and blood came out from the source of life Gods spirit. And he created thier bodies like he did ours
it seems to me that there’s a lot we don’t know about the subject but it’s also clear animals are very important to God he knows when even a sparrow falls , he also saved a population of animals through the ark just as he did a small population of Men while many more men drowned outside
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
…The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.”
Isaiah 65:17, 25 KJV
it stands to reckon that those sacrifices under the law for sin would inherit the new earth and also whatever beings the lord has chosen to be with forever
-
1
- Show all
i think it gives us enough that we can figure it out -- Paul in Romans 8:18-25 seems to have 'sorted out' these things just from what was written; that sin having come into the world through Adam, and the ground being cursed for his sake, didn't just affect Adam & the difficulty in keeping weeds out of his garden, but all of creation.
is it weird that we got to page 15 before anyone mentioned Him knowing when a sparrow falls?
thanks
is it weird that we got to page 15 before anyone mentioned Him knowing when a sparrow falls?
thanks
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Paul in Romans 8:18-25 seems to have 'sorted out' these things just from what was written; that sin having come into the world through Adam, and the ground being cursed for his sake, didn't just affect Adam & the difficulty in keeping weeds out of his garden, but all of creation.”
yes absolutely Adam was given dominion over all the earth is why it affected all the earth over the beasts also so yes agreed there
what I was saying is I don’t think the Bible explains the question of whether animals sin or are saved for eternal
Life that’s all I meant by that I think it gives indications of what becomes of them as the couple I shared but I don’t think it actually ever answers the question clearly but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t , it just means I have never found it I’ve actually wondered about it before being an animal lover
but you are dead on when Adam ( all mankind) was given dominion on earth that’s what caused all creation to need to be reconciled to our former relationship with God because sin had darkened our minds and hearts and taken our Godly judgement and we filled the earth with the evil in it following satans Will and eventually sin seperated even israel the chosen flesh from God this is what sin does
“But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”
Isaiah 59:2 KJV
yes absolutely Adam was given dominion over all the earth is why it affected all the earth over the beasts also so yes agreed there
what I was saying is I don’t think the Bible explains the question of whether animals sin or are saved for eternal
Life that’s all I meant by that I think it gives indications of what becomes of them as the couple I shared but I don’t think it actually ever answers the question clearly but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t , it just means I have never found it I’ve actually wondered about it before being an animal lover
but you are dead on when Adam ( all mankind) was given dominion on earth that’s what caused all creation to need to be reconciled to our former relationship with God because sin had darkened our minds and hearts and taken our Godly judgement and we filled the earth with the evil in it following satans Will and eventually sin seperated even israel the chosen flesh from God this is what sin does
“But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”
Isaiah 59:2 KJV
-
2
- Show all
and what sin did the other animals have?
so can they be separated from Him; does He hide His face from the innocent?
Balaam's donkey, God said, will live ((Numbers 22:33))
all He did was open her mouth - and she spoke, intelligently, with memory, with logic, with emotion, with awareness and with wisdom
so can they be separated from Him; does He hide His face from the innocent?
Balaam's donkey, God said, will live ((Numbers 22:33))
all He did was open her mouth - and she spoke, intelligently, with memory, with logic, with emotion, with awareness and with wisdom
-
2
-
1
- Show all
bro you missed what I was saying o began that post saying I don’t think the Bible explains whether animals sin and are condemned or saved .
I’m saying sin seperated mankind from God and that seperated all creation from him because we were given the earth and God doesn’t take back his gifts that’s the reason Jesus had to become a man because the earth was given to us and all in it our sin mans , caused it all everything else just followed the course of mankind
“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
Psalm 115:16 KJV
so Christ became a man and took dominion and is reconciling creation
I’m saying sin seperated mankind from God and that seperated all creation from him because we were given the earth and God doesn’t take back his gifts that’s the reason Jesus had to become a man because the earth was given to us and all in it our sin mans , caused it all everything else just followed the course of mankind
“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
Psalm 115:16 KJV
so Christ became a man and took dominion and is reconciling creation
-
1
- Show all