Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?

[Jackson123]

how do you get we do ot stop believing IN SIN

from we do not stop believing SIN IS SIN?

totally different concept.

And what is that mean?

 

[Jackson123]

Peter never stop believing in Jesus And Jesus never asked him to repent. Jesus restored him by asking him three times. Do you love me.. And even though Peter could not admit he AGAPE loved Jesus. Jesus still told him to go our and feed his sheep.

But he did deny Jesus

 

[Jackson123]

Peter never stop believing in Jesus And Jesus never asked him to repent. Jesus restored him by asking him three times. Do you love me.. And even though Peter could not admit he AGAPE loved Jesus. Jesus still told him to go our and feed his sheep.

Luke 22:61

“And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt

 

[SupahKent]

This is worrysome (by the way welcome to CC)

1. Jesus told those in Matt 7 he NEVER KNEW THEM. So my question is, How could they have been saved at any point in their life.
2. Not quite sure how this should be our backbone. How can we live in rest. If we are always worried God may reject us?
3. John said the most important thing for any believer is the fact we KNOW we have eternal life (he wrote a whole book about it) and because of this knowledge we have the power to continue to believe.

Paul lives his life in a way even the worst tribulations did not take him down. How did he do that? With the knowledge that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord. His eternal destiny and his knowledge that this life is short is what empower him. Because he too understood the fact. The hope of eternal life, which Gd, who can not lie, promised before time began. Is the basis of our faith. If we lose hope this is a fact, and only a possibility. We lose the power God has given us to work out the salvation God gave us,

This isn't talking to the born again.
See, this verse is talking about those who are not spiritually joined to Christ.

Notice that they performed Mark 16..... They performed Christian stuff., in Jesus Name...........But notice something very specific.

Jesus got rid of these commandment keepers, these self effort to be accepted by God = religious but LOST.

Why? He said this....."i never KNEW You".

See that? This means you can speak christianese, and rant on forums, and preach from a pulpit, and Jesus not KNOW You.

How to understand this "know you" is the key to understanding the verse..

Its very simple, but i have to explain what the NT means when it says....>"Know".
Its like this, SupahKent...........When 2 people "Know" each other, in the context of the NT, this is speaking of "2 becoming one flesh".
So if a man "knows" a woman, this means he has become "one flesh" with her......this is sexual intimacy.

You are aware that the born again are the : BRIDE of Christ.
This does not mean we are to become the Bride.....It means we HAVE become the Bride, and Jesus is coming back for His Bride.....the born again, the Church, the body of Christ.

So, marriage, is not just the wedding ceremony and the paperwork.
Marriage is the CONSUMAMATION, of the wedding.
It means, that you and your mate, have sex......as that is the joining, and the "Knowing"'.

See that?

So, in the Spiritual Realm ......for Christ to KNOW YOU< is because you have become His Bride.
He has now begin to live IN YOU.........."Christ IN YOU< the Hope of Glory".........So that is the "ONE with God, In Christ" =that is the same Spiritually, as to be joined physically to a person, which is to "KNOW them".....intimately.
See it?

So, when Jesus says.....>"Depart from me, i never KNEW YOU">.....this means that Christ never joined them.....He does not live in them.
They are not BORN AGAIN. They are not His BRIDE.
They are religious. They are trying to be like Christ. They keep commandments and do works in Christ's Name.
They live on Forums as religious heretics.
But that is all meaningless, because Christ does not ""KNOW THEM""....= They are not born again......Christ does not live in them.

So, if you are born again, that verse isn't talking to you.

I have to be honest here. At first, I was upset because I didn't know how to respond to this. I saw where you mentioned people being religious and ranting on forums at least twice. I felt as though this was a personal attack. In fact, I really just felt embarrassed and wanted to leave. But after reading through what you said a couple times, I realized my error. I had not known these verses were speaking to those who were not born again. I had assumed this had been directed toward those who made an attempt to know Christ through relationship with Him.

A long while ago, when I first started my relationship with Christ, I told Him that if I were going to do this thing, I wanted no part of me, that I would only accept His Word as truth. I mention this not so as to defend myself, but because I want my intentions to be clear. I have always stood for correction and I stand by it now. I am thankful for this perspective but also believe my statements weren't totally in error, either.

Being born again, as I understand it, is to be spiritually born of the Spirit, to be made new so as to know and understand the perfect will of God in order to serve Him. Being born again is also what enables us to know what His Spirit says to us. Please, correct me if I am wrong here, I will gladly accept the correction. With that being said, if in my own walk, I turn away from God after having an intimate relationship with Him, would I not fall into the category of Christ never knowing me? Or have I perceived my own walk as false? Please help me to understand this.

 

[LaVura]

Yes, according to Jesus in Matthew 7:21 - 24 It is the will of God for us all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, and at the same time the Holy Spirit works in them to break that cycle of defeat. If Christians were properly taught what salvation really is, it would make a huge difference. I met a young man that I knew briefly. He was sitting on a bench in town, downcast and depressed. He'd lost his temper with a group of former friends who were mocking him.

I told him that all he had to do was confess his sin and he would be forgiven. He was shocked. He'd been going to a Pentecostal church for 18 months and never heard that. As the pastor of that church said, Pentecostalism is not strong on teaching.

Your friend was forgiven before he confessed, if confession is required we are trying to earn grace

confession is for our healing not for our maintaining salvation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you can be born again one moment and unborn again the next? I don't think so. Paul rebuked Peter for falling back into legalism. Peter was wrong, but he had not lost his salvation.

I never stated this my friend,

there is a difference between legalistic thinking and true legalism.

a christian can be beset by legalistic thinking

a legalist has never met God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And what is that mean?

It means I believe a lie is sin, I don’t stop believing a lie is sin just because in the heat of the moment I lie to protect myself

I can’t repent of lieing because I never stop believing it was a sin


i can confess it, but to say I must repent, that’s impossible. Unless I never believed it was a sin to begin with

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But he did deny Jesus

by his mouth, we have no proof he denied him in Hs heart

he denied him in fear, not out of unbelief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have to be honest here. At first, I was upset because I didn't know how to respond to this. I saw where you mentioned people being religious and ranting on forums at least twice. I felt as though this was a personal attack. In fact, I really just felt embarrassed and wanted to leave. But after reading through what you said a couple times, I realized my error. I had not known these verses were speaking to those who were not born again. I had assumed this had been directed toward those who made an attempt to know Christ through relationship with Him.

A long while ago, when I first started my relationship with Christ, I told Him that if I were going to do this thing, I wanted no part of me, that I would only accept His Word as truth. I mention this not so as to defend myself, but because I want my intentions to be clear. I have always stood for correction and I stand by it now. I am thankful for this perspective but also believe my statements weren't totally in error, either.

Being born again, as I understand it, is to be spiritually born of the Spirit, to be made new so as to know and understand the perfect will of God in order to serve Him. Being born again is also what enables us to know what His Spirit says to us. Please, correct me if I am wrong here, I will gladly accept the correction. With that being said, if in my own walk, I turn away from God after having an intimate relationship with Him, would I not fall into the category of Christ never knowing me? Or have I perceived my own walk as false? Please help me to understand this.

i want to understand you more and not assume I know what your asking, by turning away, do you mean as the prodigal son or as a non believer why Denys Christ

 

[LaVura]

Matthew 7, 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

 

[LaVura]

The will of God is to stop sinning or you will not enter the kingdom of heaven - according to Jesus. Stop sinning. It is the will of God.

 

[Flowers2]

You must be obedient to the word of God so God can use you in the Holy Spirit. This will help you be stronger in the Lord and get closer to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The will of God is to stop sinning or you will not enter the kingdom of heaven - according to Jesus. Stop sinning. It is the will of God.

Jesus said, why do you call me good. No one is good But God.

The pharisees missed Jesus meaning. Why did he say this? What did he want them to understand?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 7, 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Yep

GOD NEVER KNEW THEM

they never had salvation.

 

[SophieT]

The pharisees thought they loved God too. Jesus showed they did not even know who God was.
these people will find out one day

I think it was a power trip for them...illigitimate power at that

love becomes a 4 letter word in the mouths of some people

yes...and that is why they hated Jesus. stand up today and point out hypocrisy or those on a power trip and they will turn and hate you also

 

[Kidron]

I have to be honest here. At first, I was upset because I didn't know how to respond to this. I saw where you mentioned people being religious and ranting on forums at least twice. I felt as though this was a personal attack. In fact, I really just felt embarrassed and wanted to leave. But after reading through what you said a couple times, I realized my error. I had not known these verses were speaking to those who were not born again. I had assumed this had been directed toward those who made an attempt to know Christ through relationship with Him.
A long while ago, when I first started my relationship with Christ, I told Him that if I were going to do this thing, I wanted no part of me, that I would only accept His Word as truth. I mention this not so as to defend myself, but because I want my intentions to be clear. I have always stood for correction and I stand by it now. I am thankful for this perspective but also believe my statements weren't totally in error, either.
Being born again, as I understand it, is to be spiritually born of the Spirit, to be made new so as to know and understand the perfect will of God in order to serve Him. Being born again is also what enables us to know what His Spirit says to us. Please, correct me if I am wrong here, I will gladly accept the correction. With that being said, if in my own walk, I turn away from God after having an intimate relationship with Him, would I not fall into the category of Christ never knowing me? Or have I perceived my own walk as false? Please help me to understand this.

The reason im very direct is because God has to break through.
"break" through.
See it? To have a BREAK.....through.......that is force, and impact.
Something that is the barrier has to be torn down., broken through.

All deception is a stronghold in the mind, that you have to cut down, break through, or it just gets stronger.
Truth BREAKS deception.
I can't do this for the person, but God can,..... and the way..... is for me to oppose the stronghold and the resistance, by not massaging it.
Its like a tree that is cut down in your yard.
The roots are still there, so, you have to, by force, rip them out, or they remain.
Religious strongholds are the same...they are a root in the mind, and you can't get them out unless you force Light into them.
That is Truth breaking through.

See, the person is not the issue.
Its the stronghold.....its the mental barrier that is usually a blend of self righteousness and the devil causing spiritual blindness in the person's mind.

Gospel Truth, is hidden until the revelation of the Truth burst's forth.
You have to have that........>"OH< i see that now'... moment, ........as that is the revelation happening in place of the stronghold.
That is LIGHT invading Darkness.
When you get that, then the Truth has removed the deception.
"breakthrough".

Its not human nature to understand that we, the born again, have been "made righteous".
You can't see faith, you just have to have it.
You can't see the shed blood of Jesus, so you just have to BELIEVE IT.
We dont feel it. We can't even really comprehend it, because, this is something spiritual that has happened that is beyond comprehension.
You can't feel your Spirit. But you can feel your feelings, and feelings are not related to Truth, they are only related to emotion.

So, we read that we are "One with God""',... SPIRITUALLY......yet we see ourselves as this person that has issues here and there, and it seems to be a contradiction.
But its not, because its our SPIRIT that is the "made righteous", .. not our mind or our thoughts or our body.
We are told to renew our minds......or.... to get out of the "how do i feel about this", and "what is my opinion"...and into the .....>"God said it so it has to be true".....mind.
Thats real faith.
When we understand that this is where we have to exist in our RIGHT MIND< then we have started our Real Faith.
And that is the moment that a believer first begins to comprehend "the GRACE of God".

 

[SophieT]

The will of God is to stop sinning or you will not enter the kingdom of heaven - according to Jesus. Stop sinning. It is the will of God.

LaVura...you state you are not Christian

understand that the only way to spend eternity in the presence of God is through the blood of Christ. God sent His only Son what whoever believes in Him, might have eternal life.

works do not save a person and there is not one sinless person who has ever lived, now or in the future

Jesus came to save those who are lost...we are all lost until we accept Him as God's answer to our sin problem

It is not correct to say that Jesus said stop sinning so you can enter heaven. Those who are 'born again' by the power of God through His Spirit, are the ones that are acceptable to God

 

[SophieT]

I'm curious, have you ever read Matthew 7:22-23? This should, if not already, be the scariest part of scripture in all of God's Word for us who believe: that there is the possibility that Messiah will reject you. This needs to be the backbone of our faith. This should encourage us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

These two verses are speaking of people who are under the belief that they are in a righteous relationship with Christ and are living to the best of their abilities through Him. Some will prophesy, some will cast out devils and others will believe they are doing the will of the Father because of their works. They are convinced that they are in good standing with Christ. What of their salvation? What of their rebirth? Christ will reject them because he never knew them. They are lawless and lack intimacy with God.

Yet, these people also thought that salvation, once obtained, cannot be taken away. However, they failed to understand that salvation is a process that comes to completion upon Christ returning and gathering together what is His. It isn't something that is immediate because you decide to follow Him. They also decided to follow Him and look what will become of their existence. It occurs when He returns for those who belong to Him.

If it were as people think, that salvation is immediate and permanent upon accepting Christ as their Savior, that they could continue on living as they please without consequence. Obviously, this is not so. God cannot lie.

This is very important to keep in mind. It should cause you to examine yourself on every possible level so that you may be found with your lamp full and on watch.

Supah ~ you state this on your bio:

Being saved is a process, not an immediate action.

How do you see that? It is my understanding that salvation is immediate, that is being born again (through the blood of Christ into God's family and having our sins forgiven) and after that, we are sanctified...which is a process that continues as long as we are alive on this earth

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it was a power trip for them...illigitimate power at that

love becomes a 4 letter word in the mouths of some people

yes...and that is why they hated Jesus. stand up today and point out hypocrisy or those on a power trip and they will turn and hate you also

They hate because they know inside it is right. Which makes them angry because in order to admit it. They would have to admit they are wrong.

A few pharisees did. So there is hope