Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[eternally-gratefull]

The word grace means . . . which is . . . (. . . "therefore ) Grace means NO works involved

The verse says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.
Your doctrine from this verse is Grace means no works involved. That is not what the verse clearly states.

Now if you "hold" that and go to another verse - you could really make things interesting . . . (Again, my view! - you are allowed yours)

People forget

we are saved by grace through faith, those saved by grace are gods workmanship created for good works,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nicodemus obviously came to saving faith after he was regenerated. I've supported my position with plenty of scripture, which you are free to reject. I'm satisfied with my position. I disagree to disagree with your views. Have a blessed day.

Nope

he was regenerated the moment he was saved,

you have nicodemus born again while still under the penalty of sin.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is life

the forgiveness of sin is called justification. Or declared righteous, which is by faith

there is no justification apart from faith, and their is no regeneration without justification

 

[JerryInBoston]

Nope

he was regenerated the moment he was saved,

you have nicodemus born again while still under the penalty of sin.

Regeneration/salvation are two distinct elements of one occurrence, just as repent and believe are two elements of one occurrence.

 

[SophieT]

Actually, John 15 is about fellowship, not salvation. It seems a lot of believers are confused about that. Before Jesus said to abide in Him and He chose the 11, He began ch 15 by assuring the 11 that they were already saved (clean). This proves that "abiding" is not about staying saved.

sometimes a picture really is worth 1000 words

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Regeneration/salvation are two distinct elements of one occurrence, just as repent and believe are two elements of one occurrence.

You still can not have regeneration occure before justification

a person can not be born again while still under the penalty of sin

 

[fredoheaven]

Romans 11:6

King James Version

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[JerryInBoston]

You still can not have regeneration occure before justification

a person can not be born again while still under the penalty of sin

Regeneration encompasses justification and sanctification.

 

[Chester]

Actually, John 15 is about fellowship, not salvation. It seems a lot of believers are confused about that. Before Jesus said to abide in Him and He chose the 11, He began ch 15 by assuring the 11 that they were already saved (clean). This proves that "abiding" is not about staying saved.

Since I do not come to Ch. 15 with a doctrinal statement to defend, I simply take John 15 for what it says.

By the way, vs. 3 does not say they were already saved. It says that "ye are clean." The word for "clean" is from the same root as "purgeth" in vs. 2.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The word grace means . . . which is . . . (. . . "therefore ) Grace means NO works involved

What does this mean? And please define what "grace" means.

The verse says we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.
Your doctrine from this verse is Grace means no works involved. That is not what the verse clearly states.

Where do you find "works" in Eph 2:8? Nowhere. And words "this is not of yourselves" shows that works aren't involved. And v.9 says "NOT of works". Very clear.

Now if you "hold" that and go to another verse - you could really make things interesting . . . (Again, my view! - you are allowed yours)

Since you seem to be promoting the notion that salvation involves works, show me a verse.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
So, can you use the Bible to refute my explanation of the verses I have provided?

OK, simple example:

You stated originally (somewhere a ways back) that we are saved by faith alone. (Now if you didn't say that let me know).

I showed from the the Bible that this is not so:
Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace through faith

that is not "by faith alone"

Apparently you are failing to understand the words "this is not from yourselves" and in v.9 "NOT of works" then.

but you turned around and used your own explanation to say that "by grace through faith" means "by faith alone'

Please explain what you think "grace" means then.

I have no interest in arguing with your "explanation"

This is typically employed when a poster has no answer and knows it.

- I want the Word of God alone and nothing else for doctrine.

So explain the word "grace". It's all through the Bible.

So I showed you from the Bible that we are saved "by grace through faith" and not by "faith alone"

Exactly. But it seems you have no understanding of the meaning of "grace".

 

[FreeGrace2]

Nicodemus obviously came to saving faith after he was regenerated.

Where do you get that idea from?

I've supported my position with plenty of scripture, which you are free to reject.

No, you haven't.

I'm satisfied with my position. I disagree to disagree with your views.

You make no sense.

However, I proved that both salvation and regeneration occur THROUGH FAITH, from Eph 2:5 and 8.

Faith precedes both salvation and regeneration.

You have not provided any verse that shows regeneration causes, leads to, or precedes faith.

If you are satisfied with a view that has no biblical support, whatever.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you provide any verse that says election is to salvation? No, there aren't any.

Nope. The purpose of this election is clearly stated in the purpose clause of "that we should be". And it's subjunctive mood, meaning it's something believers (us) OUGHT/SHOULD do.

nope, that is what we are, not what we should do

Huh? We ARE elected. TO service.

I said:
"No again. To be "holy and blameless" speaks of service to the King. In fact, Paul clarified in Eph 5 the issue of being holy and blameless."

dude you are no more holy and blameless in your life now by your works than anyone is, as Jesus said, only God is good.

Then why did Paul tell us that we were chosen to be holy and blameless in 1:4 and that God wants to present the church holy and blameless?

you will be seen as holy and blameless on judgment day ONLY because you were justified,

It appears that you have no understanding of sanctification during our life on earth then.

i love how you claim eternal security.

I love what Jesus taught.

Yet all you speak about is works, and you think people who reject Christ have been saved also.

What post can you cite where "all I speak about is works"? When I speak of works, I point out that works are NOT a part of getting saved, but works done in the Spirit are rewarded. All of which is biblical.

As to your second question, please be a bit more honest. My claim is that whoever HAS believed in Christ possesses eternal life from John 5:24 and shall never perish from John 10:28.

you need to go back to the beginning my friend

The beginning of what?

Since you are in disagreement then address my points and show HOW they are in error.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Regeneration can not come until justification occures my friend

Prove it from actual Scripture.

you can not be born again in sin.

God saves believers. All of humanity is sinful. Your statement is totally unbiblical.

john 3: 16 says Jesus died for the whole world. so that anyone who believes in him will not die,

And the wole world is sinful. Read Rom 3.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Regeneration encompasses justification and sanctification.

No, regeneration is the result of justification, sanctification is ongoing and is a result of regeneration

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, John 15 is about fellowship, not salvation. It seems a lot of believers are confused about that. Before Jesus said to abide in Him and He chose the 11, He began ch 15 by assuring the 11 that they were already saved (clean). This proves that "abiding" is not about staying saved.

sometimes a picture really is worth 1000 words

This is gonna need some explanation. I have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

Are you confused about the concept of fellowship, like so many believers today?

 

[FreeGrace2]

a person can not be born again while still under the penalty of sin

Every human being is born under the penalty of sin. Condemned is the biblical word.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Every human is born an unbeliever. Condemned.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

FreeGrace2 said:
Can you provide any verse that says election is to salvation? No, there aren't any.

Nope. The purpose of this election is clearly stated in the purpose clause of "that we should be". And it's subjunctive mood, meaning it's something believers (us) OUGHT/SHOULD do.

Huh? We ARE elected. TO service.

I said:
"No again. To be "holy and blameless" speaks of service to the King. In fact, Paul clarified in Eph 5 the issue of being holy and blameless."

Then why did Paul tell us that we were chosen to be holy and blameless in 1:4 and that God wants to present the church holy and blameless?


It appears that you have no understanding of sanctification during our life on earth then.


I love what Jesus taught.


What post can you cite where "all I speak about is works"? When I speak of works, I point out that works are NOT a part of getting saved, but works done in the Spirit are rewarded. All of which is biblical.

As to your second question, please be a bit more honest. My claim is that whoever HAS believed in Christ possesses eternal life from John 5:24 and shall never perish from John 10:28.


The beginning of what?

Since you are in disagreement then address my points and show HOW they are in error.

You make up your own stuff

thats why no one can discuss things with you

you ask for proof, when it is given to you you reject it a d twist it to fit Your own belief.

your NOT holy based on how good you are, so beng chosen or elect to be holy is NOT SERVICE

You are NOT without blame based on your service, apart from grace, if God demanded you pay your own sin debt, yu would be guilty as charged,l so that is NOT about service.

twist it however you want, YOUR WRONG!

it seems everyone sees this but you

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Actually, John 15 is about fellowship, not salvation. It seems a lot of believers are confused about that. Before Jesus said to abide in Him and He chose the 11, He began ch 15 by assuring the 11 that they were already saved (clean). This proves that "abiding" is not about staying saved.

Since I do not come to Ch. 15 with a doctrinal statement to defend, I simply take John 15 for what it says.

Your judgment of my statement is unjustified. I don't come to John 15 with anything to defend. I simply explain the meaning of "abiding".

Would you care to try to explain what Jesus meant by "abiding"?

By the way, vs. 3 does not say they were already saved.

I didn't say "we". I said ALL of who Jesus was talking to. Do you know who they were? The 11. Jesus was affirming their security.

It says that "ye are clean." The word for "clean" is from the same root as "purgeth" in vs. 2.

Jesus said that to the 11.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prove it from actual Scripture.


God saves believers. All of humanity is sinful. Your statement is totally unbiblical.


And the wole world is sinful. Read Rom 3.

I did already

the penalty (wage) of sin is death (see gods warning to Adam and Romans 5)

the gift of God is life

the gift of God is justification

we are justified by faith (Romans 3, 4)

hence sanctification can not occure before justification, and justification can not occur before faith.

Whether you see it or not is beside the point, I proved it with scripture.