Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?
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You really ought to ask him, although I would not call his contributions irrelevant comments, when he was simply pointing out that some were doing the very thing the OP had asked people not to do in their responses to her question. Such as you! Also, calling his participation in this thread "interrupting a conversation" is more evidence of your need of an attitude adjustment. I pray you get it.
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There are no private discussions and/or conversations on an open forum; it's
all available for public observation and comment. Everything you say on the
open forum can, and will be, used either for you or against you.
Don't be afraid to use the Start Conversation link. It's actually pretty good;
and you have the option to allow anyone in the conversation to invite others,
and you can lock the conversation (no responses will be allowed).
_
BonnieClaire said:
Is Jesus Almighty God?
Are you a Muslim? I am curious. How was Adam created? Was Jesus killed or not? Is it true that it is written in your book that Muslims will have 72 virgins wives in Paradise? And there will be a free sex market of men and women in Paradise?
Is Jesus Almighty God?
Are you a Muslim? I am curious. How was Adam created? Was Jesus killed or not? Is it true that it is written in your book that Muslims will have 72 virgins wives in Paradise? And there will be a free sex market of men and women in Paradise?
The topic appears to be about annihilationism. Which is another way of saying "those cast into the lake of fire fade away rather than exist eternally in torment"
Importantly, Hades is different than the Lake of Fire. Any of the lines describing the rich man in Lazarus' story being in torment is describing Hades, not the Lake of Fire. No one is in Hades forever.
False prophets and Satan are thrown into the Lake of Fire. The phrasing describing their torment as "everlasting" or "in perpetuity". Others that do not have their name in the book of life are also thrown in. The question comes to "where is the Lake of Fire?" If the Lake of Fire is in the earth, LoF and its inhabitants fade away in the transition to new earth and new heaven. This doesn't contradict the context of perpetuity and would be an interpretation that is consistent with scripture.
An interesting approach to truth. Scripture tells us that the law is written on our hearts and minds. Are you rejecting scripture? Or asking for something external to scripture to shape your interpretation of scripture?
Talmudic Jewish?
I take it you're quoting Revelation 20:10
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
There are only three persons who are described as being tormented day and night forever: the beast, false prophet, and the devil.
Generally speaking, rank and file unrepentant sinners aren't described being tormented day and night forever.
Jesus literally spoke more about Hell than He taught about heaven.
Also...
What happens to these after they die?
I'll post a few versions .... and notice the context is "eternal life" OR. "Wrath"..... so, this is speaking of an end result, after death, as well as currently, regarding the difference between the born again, and the unbelievers. (Christ rejectors)
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John 3:36 :
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”
It isn't clear enough to interpret as conscious torment, day and night, forever because it doesn't say that.
A passage like that has to be interpreted using a variety of scriptures, but here are a couple of my thoughts:
1. The wrath remains only on those who reject the Son. Then those who haven't heard the Son's gospel don't have God's wrath resting on them because they haven't had chance to reject the Son.
2. If accepting the Son means eternal life, then it's inferred that rejecting the Son means death through God's wrath. Meaning that those who reject the Son do not live forever.
So you are teaching that the Grave is the end, and that there is no eternal situation waiting for Christ rejectors?
Try this Thread.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...father-or-the-new-father.200491/#post-4612080
I came across this scripture as to why christians will believe in eternal punishemnt. but does that make it right completely ? lets read it first.
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Now theres a few things to take into account here. Here we have the heavens witnesseing eternal torment and tormenting people whilst theres allready tormented in the worst possible torment, being in agony from fire burning them. this doesnt feel right to me.
A person crying out from hell to heaven to be forgiven, and heavens hearing his call from hell only to then to torment them somemore.
My understanding is if eternal punishement is meant to be eternal forever and ever, heaven would not hear there call at all. and why would heaven allow there crys to be herd from hell. and even speak to people in hell from heaven if there going to be there forever.
The second thing to take into account is the heavens are saying, the rich mans brothers have the moses to listen to, to prevent them from going to hell where the rich man is, as we all know that moses is all about obeying the law. then we have to say if the rich mans brothers cant obey the law then there headed for where the rich man is. but yet alot christians say the law will not save you. there seems to be clear suggestion here if you obey the law you will remain saved.
This is a bit of a mess to be honest.
Abraham, Moses and the rich man are Jews, they are bound by the law. But the church, the body of Christ is not under the law but under grace. Christians are free from the law. Not free to break it but free to fulfill it for they don't desire to break it. Christ did not come to shove laws down our throats. He came to fulfill the law.
Someone has to have the gospel preached to them and then a chance to reject it in order to fall under God's judgment. I believe this is what Jesus taught as well.
Romans 10:14-15
14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
1 Peter 4:6
6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Welcome to '2021.
Try to find a place in this world without an Internet and a Cell phone.
People in Mongolia, sitting in a tent, have internet and a cell.
Even in countries where the Gospel and the bible are forbidden have secrete services.
Probably what you have not considered is that God is going to get His word out, and man can't stop this.....
So, let me assure you that Hell is not a theological misunderstanding, even tho in these end times fake Pastors are trying to air condition it before they move in.
Hell is as real as Heaven.
Damnation lasts as long as Eternal life.
They are in fact the same thing, but the end result is a different location.
And youve just quoted your own law about the law lol, anyway ive allready made the decision i am not going to get into more long drawn out disputes about the law here anymore, hence the reason why i have stopped doing threads myslf about the law.
I have been doing a study about tormenting spirits lately and it would seem that the quiga board are legal and you can buy one with full instruction on how to use them.
there also seems to be a common pattern with them from many people saying the same thing, that since using them they have expeirienced being tormented all the time, and feeling intence anger in there body only after using them. thus saying they where never like that befor using them. On other studies alot of people have said theyve done everything they can to stop being tormented, turning there life over to Jesus, but still there tormented. its supprising how many forums there are on this matter. what sickens me, is how there allowed to be sold in a country whos faith is mostly christian. And just about anyone can buy them,
Notice Romans 1:20. ... "no Excuse"...
Also, what verse says that God is eternal, and your spirit is eternal? ???????
"God is "A" Spirit.
Man is created "in the image" of God.
Notice that God, who Created Adam, had no BODY. This is because God is "A" Spirit. And those that Worship God worship God in "Spirit, and in Truth".
Notice that?
So the living part of Adam, is the SPIRIT....... If you read Genesis, it says that Adam's body was created from DIRT< and then God breathed into Adam. This is the Spirit being put in the Body, that IS THE LIFE of the Body.
This is the same as you find when Jesus "breathed on the Apostles" and said "received the Spirit".
See that? That is God as Christ doing what Father God did with Adam.
When a person is born again, that is their SPIRIT, that has become "one with God"... SPIRITUALLY.
This is an eternal situation, as joining eternal God, can't be temporary.
Notice also...>"Eternal Life"........Jesus said....>"I give them Eternal LIFE, and they shall never perish".
The reason its called "eternal life" is because its not temporary, .. it never ends.
If you read John 3:36, you see that God's Wrath, remains ON the Christ Rejector.
So, God never dies, nor does His Wrath, or "damnation" that is ON every Christ rejector, while they are breathing.
See, the unbelievers are damned already, having no faith in Christ who is their rescue from Damnation. They are alive waiting to go to hell. As soon as they die, their spirit goes directly to hell.
Paul said....>"i desire to depart". for it is far better to Be with Christ.
See that? He is not talking about his body......>He is talking about his SPIRIT being immediately with Jesus.
"Absent from the body...(dead)....Present with the LORD"........instantly, =Spirit.
Damnation is the 2nd Death, that is not a death, its a eternal destination where the person ends up because they were never born twice.
Jesus said.....".you must be born AGAIN".......that is a 2nd Birthday, and that is a Spiritual Birth... "born again".....So, as the unbelievers are already existing in the "adamic nature" that is "death", .........God said ..."if you eat that apple you shall surely DIE">.... And that is the Spirit being separated from God, based on SIN.
So, that is the 1st Death....Its spiritual separation from God's Spirit.
The 2nd Death, is to die not having been born again......So, you end up in 2nd Death, which is eternal damnation, having died never been born again .
Every person is going to have 2 Births, or 2 Deaths.
Going to Hell, followed by the lake of Fire is the 2nd Death., whereas being born again, is the 2nd Birth.
Both of these situations, have a final ending.
Heaven, or Hell.
Here is how to see it. Why would God allow Christ rejectors to live in Heaven, with those who are born again, having Believed?
So, that will never happen.
This means that God has provided a PLACE for the eternal spirit in a Christ Rejector, to END UP., .........Just as Heaven, is the eternal place that is waiting for the born again to arrive.
All it says is that they don't have an excuse. Doesn't say anything about spending eternity in hell.
Romans 1:20 isn't a good verse to preach the immortality of the human spirit. The verse talks about God's "eternal power." There isn't a verse they says human spirits have eternal power is there?
That's about eternal life.
John 3:36 implies that Christ rejectors do not live forever. If they don't live forever then they're dead atleast until the 2nd resurrection, at which point they will die again.
Revelation 20:14
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Matthew 10:28
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
In your view, the second death is not a death at all, surprise! The Bible means exactly what it says. The second death is annihilation.
The Bible never refers to the fruit from the tree in the garden as an apple. This might seem like not a big deal, but do try to be accurate with all diligence.
Adam and Eve did die after eating the fruit. They both lost their immortality.
Which verse says the second death is not a death, but instead eternal damnation?
I agree. No problems there.
The body and soul are destroyed in hell. That's the first death.
The second death happens after the resurrection of the damned. They get destroyed in the lake of fire.
.
People penned up in the fiery section of Hades may or may not be fully
aware of all they've lost. Many are doubtless aware of at least their loss of
immortality; but I'm not so sure they know about the bulk of their loss
because not even that many Christians are aware of all they've gained by
their association with Christ.
We today are living in what's sometimes called the church age; which is an
era that began with the day of Pentecost per Acts 2:1-2 wherein Christ has
been busy assembling the "my church" he spoke of in Matt 16:18.
The "my church" is very fortunate because it is a joint-heir (a.k.a. heir in
common) with God's son in his Father's estate. (Eph 1:11 and Rom 8:16
17)
A joint-heir is different than a regular heir. Regular heirs are apportioned an
individual percentage of their benefactor's estate. But joint-heirs inherit, not
a percentage, but the entire estate, as community property, i.e. whatever
the Father bequeathed His son, He bequeathed everyone associated with His
son.
For example: supposing a benefactor's estate totals 60 acres of land, 18
gold bars, plus a hedge fund worth 200,000 US Dollars; and he left it all to
six heirs in common. In that situation; the heirs are corporately one
beneficiary instead of six; viz: all six inherit all the land, all the gold, and the
entire fund as if each one were the only heir.
The extent of the Father's estate is astonishing. It encompasses not only all
that is in Heaven, but also whatever pertains to the new cosmos spoken of
in Isa 66:17, 2Pet 3:13, and Rev 21:1; and I don't know what else.
• John 3:35 . .The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his
hand.
• John 16:15 . . All things that the Father has are mine
• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come
It's a good thing that God's son has been appointed chief executive officer of
his Father's estate because I don't think anybody else among men could
ever be relied upon to manage it properly.
Point being: folks in today's era who fail to be accepted into the "my church"
will end up as miserable paupers in the afterlife, whereas those associated
with God's son will be wealthy and privileged beyond imagination.
_
People penned up in the fiery section of Hades may or may not be fully
aware of all they've lost. Many are doubtless aware of at least their loss of
immortality; but I'm not so sure they know about the bulk of their loss
because not even that many Christians are aware of all they've gained by
their association with Christ.
We today are living in what's sometimes called the church age; which is an
era that began with the day of Pentecost per Acts 2:1-2 wherein Christ has
been busy assembling the "my church" he spoke of in Matt 16:18.
The "my church" is very fortunate because it is a joint-heir (a.k.a. heir in
common) with God's son in his Father's estate. (Eph 1:11 and Rom 8:16
17)
A joint-heir is different than a regular heir. Regular heirs are apportioned an
individual percentage of their benefactor's estate. But joint-heirs inherit, not
a percentage, but the entire estate, as community property, i.e. whatever
the Father bequeathed His son, He bequeathed everyone associated with His
son.
For example: supposing a benefactor's estate totals 60 acres of land, 18
gold bars, plus a hedge fund worth 200,000 US Dollars; and he left it all to
six heirs in common. In that situation; the heirs are corporately one
beneficiary instead of six; viz: all six inherit all the land, all the gold, and the
entire fund as if each one were the only heir.
The extent of the Father's estate is astonishing. It encompasses not only all
that is in Heaven, but also whatever pertains to the new cosmos spoken of
in Isa 66:17, 2Pet 3:13, and Rev 21:1; and I don't know what else.
• John 3:35 . .The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into his
hand.
• John 16:15 . . All things that the Father has are mine
• Heb 2:5 . . It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come
It's a good thing that God's son has been appointed chief executive officer of
his Father's estate because I don't think anybody else among men could
ever be relied upon to manage it properly.
Point being: folks in today's era who fail to be accepted into the "my church"
will end up as miserable paupers in the afterlife, whereas those associated
with God's son will be wealthy and privileged beyond imagination.
_