Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

1 Peter 3:20-21
“...God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”


I believe the water mentioned in 1 Peter 3:20-21 pertains to water baptism for the following reasons:

1.The water was the means God used to carry Noah and his family to safety. The sin of the world was washed away in the flood waters. The like figure or antitype is the NT water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

2. Notice verse 21 makes specific mention of the process having nothing to do with the removal of filth from the flesh. (This is a reference to bath water) Thus, the comment points to a spiritual transaction taking place.

3. The scripture mentions that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Our own behavior, and in this particular case getting baptized, is what prompts a good conscience. The result is to be free of guilt. God is the giver of the Holy Ghost and we have no control over that other than asking for Him to give it.

4. Lastly, the scripture specifies this is only made possible by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

There is no water baptism in the below story . . . not a drop. Peter and John were teaching at night . . . yet many men, not counting women and children believed and were added to the "number" that day. Where is the water, and why isn't it mentioned?

Acts 4:1-4 NLT - "While Peter and John were speaking to the people, they were confronted by the priests, the captain of the Temple guard, and some of the Sadducees. These leaders were very disturbed that Peter and John were teaching the people that through Jesus there is a resurrection of the dead. They arrested them and, since it was already evening, put them in jail until morning. 4 But many of the people who heard their message believed it, so the number of believers now totaled about 5,000 men, not counting women and children."

 

[JaumeJ]

A person imitating the actions of our Lord should not be warned nor chided .

 

[Wansvic]

Upon review I think my comments were somewhat confusing. The following post clarifies what I was trying to convey in the 1st post.

2. Notice in 1 Peter 3:21, Peter makes specific mention of the process having nothing to do with the removal of filth from the flesh. Peter is making a reference to getting into actual water but not for the same reason as one takes a bath in order to remove dirt from the surface of the body. He specifies that water is involved; however, a spiritual transaction is what takes place when a person is immersed in the waters of baptism in obedience to God’s command.

3. The scripture mentions that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Since God is the giver of the Holy Ghost of which we have no control, other than asking for it, makes it obvious this verse cannot pertain to the baptism of the Holy Ghost. What prompts a good conscience is one’s own behavior in obeying God’s command because we believe what He says is true.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Upon review I think my comments were somewhat confusing. The following post clarifies what I was trying to convey in the 1st post.

2. Notice in 1 Peter 3:21, Peter makes specific mention of the process having nothing to do with the removal of filth from the flesh. Peter is making a reference to getting into actual water but not for the same reason as one takes a bath in order to remove dirt from the surface of the body. He specifies that water is involved; however, a spiritual transaction is what takes place when a person is immersed in the waters of baptism in obedience to God’s command.

3. The scripture mentions that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Since God is the giver of the Holy Ghost of which we have no control, other than asking for it, makes it obvious this verse cannot pertain to the baptism of the Holy Ghost. What prompts a good conscience is one’s own behavior in obeying God’s command because we believe what He says is true.

Water is a symbol. That's it. The Bible cannot be understood until we recognize symbolism and Living Allegories. To be clear: A person can be fully saved by the Work of Christ even if there isn't a single . . . drop . . . of water to be found . . . anywhere. Water baptism is the same reflection as was physical circumcision . . . they point to the same . . . exact . . . thing.

 

[Wansvic]

A person imitating the actions of our Lord should not be warned nor chided .

I was somewhat confused at what you meant by your post.

Am I right that you are saying that a person that follows the example set by Jesus' own actions should not be opposed or scolded?

 

[Wansvic]

Water is a symbol. That's it. The Bible cannot be understood until we recognize symbolism and Living Allegories. To be clear: A person can be fully saved by the Work of Christ even if there isn't a single . . . drop . . . of water to be found . . . anywhere. Water baptism is the same reflection as was physical circumcision . . . they point to the same . . . exact . . . thing.

If you believe what I said about 1 Peter 3:20-21 is not accurate please show me where the scripture itself is contradicting what I said.

 

[Wansvic]

Water is a symbol. That's it. The Bible cannot be understood until we recognize symbolism and Living Allegories. To be clear: A person can be fully saved by the Work of Christ even if there isn't a single . . . drop . . . of water to be found . . . anywhere. Water baptism is the same reflection as was physical circumcision . . . they point to the same . . . exact . . . thing.

Since you brought it up, you may be interested to know that God told Abraham that an uncircumcised child would be cut off for breaking God's covenant.

Gen 17:13-14
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If you believe what I said about 1 Peter 3:20-21 is not accurate please show me where the scripture itself is contradicting what I said.

I have no interest in debating, for this, by default, implies arguing with a person who has no intention of knowing the Truth, but is more interested in being right whether they're right or not. I'm not like that . . . at . . . all. Instead, I prefer mature discussion with folks whose minds are wide open, which is a Work of the Spirit, and eager to both listen and teach. Both listening and teaching have their place . . . who's with me on this?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Since you brought it up, you may be interested to know that God told Abraham that an uncircumcised child would be cut off for breaking God's covenant.

That's right. Now . . . tell me why. I'm listening and willing to change my mind if you give me solid, rational, and reasonable reasons t o do so.

 

[Wansvic]

There is no water baptism in the below story . . . not a drop. Peter and John were teaching at night . . . yet many men, not counting women and children believed and were added to the "number" that day. Where is the water, and why isn't it mentioned?

Acts 4:1-4 NLT - "While Peter and John were speaking to the people, they were confronted by the priests, the captain of the Temple guard, and some of the Sadducees. These leaders were very disturbed that Peter and John were teaching the people that through Jesus there is a resurrection of the dead. They arrested them and, since it was already evening, put them in jail until morning. 4 But many of the people who heard their message believed it, so the number of believers now totaled about 5,000 men, not counting women and children."

This scripture speaks to the fact that the resurrection of the dead is a reality and it is only made possible through the Lord Jesus. It makes no specific reference to anything other than that.

The translation you share (NLT) implies 5,000 men (not including women and children) where added to the NT church at that moment. The scripture does not say that. It says that that number of men believed the message they heard. So to say this scripture proves water baptism is not part of the message is untrue. We do know they did not get baptized in water at that time.

Also, I have never disputed that fact that a person must believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Without that belief the NT rebirth would not even be possible. Man did nothing to deserve God opening a way of salvation through Jesus' sacrifice. It is up to all mankind whether they accept the command to repent, and get water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus in accordance with the word of God.

Acts 4:1-4
And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
KJV

 

[Wansvic]

I have no interest in debating, for this, by default, implies arguing with a person who has no intention of knowing the Truth, but is more interested in being right whether they're right or not. I'm not like that . . . at . . . all. Instead, I prefer mature discussion with folks whose minds are wide open, which is a Work of the Spirit, and eager to both listen and teach. Both listening and teaching have their place . . . who's with me on this?

First of all I have not been arguing with you. I have been presenting scripture that contradicts what you currently believe. Mature discussion includes accepting correction. However, accepting something as true because of another person's interpretation is not using wisdom. Are you familiar with 2 Timothy 3:16? If not, it says that All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is man's way of confirming if their understanding of doctrine is correct. Only after evaluating every scripture pertaining to a given subject is it possible to see the truth.

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV

 

[Wansvic]

That's right. Now . . . tell me why. I'm listening and willing to change my mind if you give me solid, rational, and reasonable reasons t o do so.

Do you not see that obeying God resulted in being accepted. Refusal to obey resulted in being cut off from God. It states that disobedience to the command was in fact breaking one's covenant with God.

Gen 17:12
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The translation you share (NLT) implies 5,000 men (not including women and children) where added to the NT church at that moment. The scripture does not say that.

What are you talking about? You literally could not be any more backward. Here is the NLT:

"so the number of believers now totaled about 5,000 men"

and here is your KJV:

"and the number of the men was about five thousand"

It's the KJV translation that makes it seem like 5000 were added that day.

A person cannot make this stuff up. Unbelievable.

This is a no-win situation and I have no desire to go round and round like this. There are people that need help and I'm sitting here having the most ridiculous conversations . . . ever.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Do you not see that obeying God resulted in being accepted. Refusal to obey resulted in being cut off from God. It states that disobedience to the command was in fact breaking one's covenant with God.

Gen 17:12
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

This is not even close to answering why a Jew would be cut off for not recognizing circumcision. This is my last response to you, for communication is fruitless and pointless.

Take care.

 

[Wansvic]

What are you talking about? You literally could not be any more backward. Here is the NLT:

"so the number of believers now totaled about 5,000 men"

and here is your KJV:

"and the number of the men was about five thousand"

It's the KJV translation that makes it seem like 5000 were added that day.

A person cannot make this stuff up. Unbelievable.

This is a no-win situation and I have no desire to go round and round like this. There are people that need help and I'm sitting here having the most ridiculous conversations . . . ever.

Clearly you have a problem understanding the written word.

You posted the following scripture: What I pointed out is the part highlighted in blue.
Acts 4:1-4 NLT - "While Peter and John were speaking to the people, they were confronted by the priests, the captain of the Temple guard, and some of the Sadducees. These leaders were very disturbed that Peter and John were teaching the people that through Jesus there is a resurrection of the dead. They arrested them and, since it was already evening, put them in jail until morning. 4 But many of the people who heard their message believed it, so the number of believers now totaled about 5,000 men, not counting women and children."

The KJV indicates that 5,000 men heard and believed Peter's message. Period. I might add it says nothing about women and children either.
Acts 4:1-4
And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,
2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead.
3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide.
4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

 

[Wansvic]

This is not even close to answering why a Jew would be cut off for not recognizing circumcision. This is my last response to you, for communication is fruitless and pointless.

Take care.

The scripture says the person that is NOT CIRCUMCIZED is no longer in covenant with God. They have been cut off due to disobedience.

 

[Wansvic]

This is not even close to answering why a Jew would be cut off for not recognizing circumcision. This is my last response to you, for communication is fruitless and pointless.

Take care.

I find it amazing that people refuse to just accept what God's word says. Period.

 

[Gideon300]

1 Peter 3:20-21
“...God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”


I believe the water mentioned in 1 Peter 3:20-21 pertains to water baptism for the following reasons:

1.The water was the means God used to carry Noah and his family to safety. The sin of the world was washed away in the flood waters. The like figure or antitype is the NT water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)

2. Notice verse 21 makes specific mention of the process having nothing to do with the removal of filth from the flesh. (This is a reference to bath water) Thus, the comment points to a spiritual transaction taking place.

3. The scripture mentions that baptism is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Our own behavior, and in this particular case getting baptized, is what prompts a good conscience. The result is to be free of guilt. God is the giver of the Holy Ghost and we have no control over that other than asking for Him to give it.

4. Lastly, the scripture specifies this is only made possible by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The KJV is not an especially good translation. Literally, "by water" should read "through water". Noah's flood was a flood of death. It was the ark that saved Noah and his family. Baptism by immersion is an acknowledgement of our co-death with Christ. What do you do with a dead person? You bury them. So we are buried with Christ, which is the final seal of death.

Why does it matter? Once a person is buried, all hope is gone. And that is a good thing. God judges mankind to be worth only of death. By being baptised, we are accepting God's judgement. The good news is that we are resurrected. So going down in the water symbolises death and burial, rising up again represents our resurrection.

The sin of the world was not washed away by Noah's flood. About the first thing Noah did was plant a vineyard, make wine and get drunk. What perished in the flood was the human race that rebelled against God. I believe that only Noah's family was free of the contamination of the "Sons of God" who wrongly married the daughters of men. I don't know who those "sons of God" were, but God was not at all happy about it.

The only thing that can remove sin is the blood of Christ. He bore all the sin of all mankind in His body, on the cross. He died the death that we should have suffered. Only His blood was clean and pure enough to remove sin. Water has no such power.

It is good and right to be baptised. However, it has nothing to do with being born again. It also has nothing to do with forgiveness.

Hebrews 9:13-15

"For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God! Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant."

 

[JaumeJ]

The KJV is a fine translation if you English includes the language employed therein. By and through can be used interchangeably in the context it is used in that particular text. By water and through water may be understood, as we all understand it.