Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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It is okay to examine the detail and reason a conclusion about it; however, don't forget the "bigger picture"...My Theory is that there was [Never] a Gap Theory in the mind of God to begin with. Theoretically speaking here, by taking the [Very Words] of Christ, Matthew 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand...let's concentrate on this portion [stand in the holy place].
stand in the holy place. This just means as simple as having Gentile person standing in the Holy Place rather than a Jewish High Priest is an Abomination. The Romans who destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. were inside the Temple and Holy of Hollies. That classifies as an abomination because the Romans are Gentiles, not Levite High Priest.
Christ just said for this to be an abomination, it just had to STAND in the Holy Place.
That clearly would have happened during the Temple seize and then destruction.
Verses 16-20 comprise the instructions that the Jew-Christians were to follow according to the recognition of what is being illustrated in verse 15.
'When ye therefore shall see...'
[then]
'follow these instructions'
(And don't waste any time doing it.)
There was a three-year seige before the Romans took the city and destroyed the temple.
The Jew-Christians followed the instructions before/as the seige began.
What did they 'see' - before/as the seige began - three years before the temple was ever touched or destroyed - that they instantly recognized as being what was illustrated in verse 15?
hint:
( whoso readeth, let him understand: )
This is a commonly held erroneous idea.
Jesus is at the right hand of the Father - on the Father's throne. He will not sit on His own throne until His 1000-year reign on the earth.
Sure He can...
And, He is...
And, if you will just swallow your pride and calm down a bit, you may just begin to have a fraction of a chance/opportunity to approach having a better understanding of what the Bible really actually says in that passage...
Luke gives us a very good look at this portion of Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation.
Luke tells us this Abomination is 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
So like I was explaining to CV5, the Abomination [standing] in the Holy of Hollies is the Armies compassed around Jerusalem.
But he wants to twist my posts because he is in complete Denial of what Christ is saying in Matthew 24:15.
Plus, Luke does not even call it an abomination!
Oh, sorry - it would be helpful to add - after reading that web page, it will be helpful to look at this one:
http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html
(Also posted earlier in this thread.)
Actually, Luke verifies the original Hebrew/Aramaic from the Tanakh:
Luke 21:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Daniel 9:
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation.
כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽוֹת:
The KJV of Daniel has this all butchered from translation!
Luke 21:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Daniel 9:
26 And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will be cut off, and he will be no more, and the people of the coming monarch will destroy the city and the Sanctuary, and his end will come about by inundation, and until the end of the war, it will be cut off into desolation.
כווְאַֽחֲרֵ֚י הַשָּֽׁבֻעִים֙ שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית עַ֣ם נָגִ֚יד הַבָּא֙ וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶֽחֱרֶ֖צֶת שֹֽׁמֵמֽוֹת:
The KJV of Daniel has this all butchered from translation!
You're completely the product of your own times, and do not see, in any depth, the history of this argument. If John 14 or any other biblical discussion of the endtimes mentioned Pretrib at all, nobody in history saw it. There is zero Pretrib Theology in the Bible. To say it is "bizarre" not to see Christ's Coming in 2 stages is itself bizarre, since no theology of it existed to any significant extent in Christian history.
Sure there have been some peripheral, marginalized eccentric views through the history of the Christian Church. But Pretrib Theology never entered the mainstream of Christian thinking until John Darby. The only thing you'll be able to cite are these rare, out of the mainstream, belief systems, never fully accepted across the spectrum.
Your claims have no historic backing. Period.
The "critical" thing being that 'Jerusalem compassed with armies' is the "sign" that the Jew-Christians 'saw' - that they immediately understood was the prophetic moment that they needed to "get out of Dodge NOW"...
You've proven precisely nothing wrong about what I said. But thanks for the background on "day and hour"--I didn't know that. Yet, it says nothing about the points I made.
I made at least 3 points about "expectation" in the context of prophetic fulfillment. We are not to be concerned about times and seasons. But there are endtime events that we will become aware of when they happen. The point is, prophecy is designed to help us where we are, and not to prognosticate about the future.
There are several ways to look at the tension about the timing and expectation of future events. Relatively speaking, Christ's 2nd Coming is sequential to his 1st Coming, and thus appears "near." However, the space of God's patience renders this an indeterminate period of time.
On the other hand, we are to be alert to false teachers, and this has little to do with anticipating the timing of Christ's Coming. Alertness is to those things that distract, confuse, or misdirect us, and nothing about Christ's coming, except that avoiding errors helps us be ready for that event.
To be "ready" for Christ's Coming again has nothing to do with anticipating the timing of that event. Rather, it has to do with remaining morally ready, which is the requirement for every faithful believer. We are always to be faithful. And thus, we can always be ready for final judgment, having repented of our sins, and choosing to live in righteousness. Whether Christ returns in our lifetime or not is not the issue. We are ready for future judgment, whenever that happens, as long as today we are living in righteousness.
And, there is a reason for that...
I interpret the verse (15) differently than you; however, the final simple plain straight-forward result is this:
They are all three talking about 'Jerusalem compassed with armies' as/being the "sign" the Jew-Christians would 'see' and know to leave immediately...
Well, Matthew 24:4 and following (through chpt 25) is not about the events surrounding 70ad.
Luke 21:12-24a is about the events surrounding 70ad (and note that v.12 says "BUT BEFORE ALL THESE [*before all these* beginning of birth pangs just mentioned in vv.8-11]"... BEFORE ALL THOSE, the 70ad events of vv.12-24a must happen PRIOR TO those).
Matthew 24:4-8 then PICKS UP THE SCENE at [/speaking OF] the "beginning of birth pangs"... and then the passage describes what unfolds from there (with v.15[21] FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs... therefore is NOT describing the 70ad events, which [sequentially] PRECEDE THEM, see).
So... Matthew 24:15[21] is NOT describing the same events that Lk21:23,20-21 does... because of these SEQUENCE issues in the Olivet Discourse. They are TWO DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" events (occurring at wholly differing time-slots!) Many people overlook this fact.
BZZZZZZZZZZT
Nope - Sorry - Wrong Answer.
Matthew 24:15-20 (+21) is most definitely talking about the events circa 70 A.D.
Only one "SEE-then-FLEE" - circa 70 A.D.
No future "SEE-then-FLEE" is recorded in Bible End Times Prophecy.