Was Paul a Torah observant Jew?

[OldSage]

It's strange to think one has to even answer this.........

Not really. He would conform to the Law if it fulfilled his evangelic purpose, but in principle he was totally not a Torah observant Jew. Hence why he took a Nazirite vow (Acts 21)

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some

But maybe others have a different view.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Paul started out with his teaching including elements of the Law . . . bits and pieces of it, but later he began to teach that Christ ultimately separates us from all worldly laws. True Christians who understand Spiritual Circumcision, and have Turned to Christ for His Holy Operation of Faith, these Righteous Ones are no longer judged by any worldly law, but by the Laws of the Spirit of Life . . . the Indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

[iamsoandso]

It's just too open ended,,,the thing to notice is that if James,Paul and the others were still in Jerusalem in Acts 21 then the AoD had not yet polluted the Temple in their opinion and so they had not fled to the mountains yet...

 

[crossnote]

Saul was an observant Jew until he met Jesus, then he became all things to all men that he might win them for Christ...

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 (NASB) For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

 

[iamsoandso]

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24.htm Acts 24:15 when you see this flee....Acts 21(Disciples,Apostles ect. still there) weigh the two "our opinions/the Apostles/Disciples actions",,, it's not called the Acts of the Apostles for nothing.

 

[jb]

For those interested, you can find a short study Here on this topic...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Saul saw Yeshua and the Law as two things separated, but when Paul came to Christ he realized that Yeshua is the Law.

 

[Hakawaka]

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some

Sounds fake behavior to me. Pretending to be something you're really not. Paul rebuked Peter for basically doing the same thing in Galatians.

Oh Paul, why you always do this to us.

 

[crossnote]

Saul saw Yeshua and the Law as two things separated, but when Paul came to Christ he realized that Yeshua is the Law.

Do you mean Paul saw Jesus as the fulfillment of the law?
Otherwise how do you explain…

John 1:16-17 KJV
[16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[ResidentAlien]

It's strange to think one has to even answer this.........

Not really. He would conform to the Law if it fulfilled his evangelic purpose, but in principle he was totally not a Torah observant Jew. Hence why he took a Nazirite vow (Acts 21)

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some

But maybe others have a different view.

Can't say as I do. I think your spot on.

 

[Runningman]

Sounds fake behavior to me. Pretending to be something you're really not. Paul rebuked Peter for basically doing the same thing in Galatians.

Oh Paul, why you always do this to us.

I don't think Paul meant that he is openly deceiving anyone, but rather his tactic to evangelism was to meet people where they were. I think this is a wise decision.

 

[Hakawaka]

I don't think Paul meant that he is openly deceiving anyone, but rather his tactic to evangelism was to meet people where they were. I think this is a wise decision.

Probably true. My mind was instantly drawn to Galatians when I read it though.

 

[Blik]

It's strange to think one has to even answer this.........

Not really. He would conform to the Law if it fulfilled his evangelic purpose, but in principle he was totally not a Torah observant Jew. Hence why he took a Nazirite vow (Acts 21)

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some

But maybe others have a different view.

Paul, like us and as Paul stated, is under the law of Christ. It is the true law, for the true law was never to cut skin. That was only a symbol of the spirit of the law that is the true law. That was never to never eat any food from animals who ate garbage, the true law was to never feed the mind garbage. Christ explained the difference when Christ spoke to the people in the sermon on the mount. Christ said "you have been told" and then he gave the law in stone. Christ repeated that law, telling how that law was under the new covenant where the law was given in our hearts.

The key to understanding this verse is to carefully read "but I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law".

 

[Ahwatukee]

It's strange to think one has to even answer this.........

Not really. He would conform to the Law if it fulfilled his evangelic purpose, but in principle he was totally not a Torah observant Jew. Hence why he took a Nazirite vow (Acts 21)

1 Corinthians 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some

But maybe others have a different view.

Yeah, I disagree with this completely, as Paul was Pharisee himself, zealous for the law and the traditions:

"If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness in the law, faultless.

But whatever was gain to me I count as loss for the sake of Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Not really. He would conform to the Law if it fulfilled his evangelic purpose, but in principle he was totally not a Torah observant Jew.

Paul was in principle a totally Torah observant Jew. And at the same time he fully understood how the New Covenant had replaced the Old Covenant. Christ was also a Hebrew of the Hebrews and a Torah observant Jew, who knew the true meaning of the Old Covenant. Until the crucifixion of Christ the Torah was to be observed strictly. Not according to the Pharisees but according to Christ, who asked them "Is it lawful to heal on Sabbath days?" And they had no answer.

 

[Yahshua]

If Paul lived today he would have his doctorate in the Law. He lived and breathe the law...he just lacked the truth of the Messiah to complete his knowledge prior to the Holy Spirit. It's why he spoke the way he did. VERY VERY scholarly. But this is why Peter said anyone not established in the foundational teachings can twist Paul's words and teachings.


Acts 22:3
“I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but raised in this city. I was educated at the feet of Gamaliel in strict conformity to the law of our fathers. I am just as zealous for God as any of you here today.


The Jews were constantly accusing Paul of teaching against the law, to which he would say he indeed wasn't doing that. Fast forward to today and now it's the gentiles for the most part claiming the same thing about him. Almost everything he wrote references a passage in "OT" scripture, and not just once but in multiple places throughout his letters.

This is why it's important to study the law in order to make sure we're not committing the same mistake as the Jews of the 1st century when reading his letters.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If Paul lived today he would have his doctorate in the Law. He lived and breathe the law...he just lacked the truth of the Messiah to complete his knowledge prior to the Holy Spirit. It's why he spoke the way he did. VERY VERY scholarly. But this is why Peter said anyone not established in the foundational teachings can twist Paul's words and teachings.


Acts 22:3
“I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but raised in this city. I was educated at the feet of Gamaliel in strict conformity to the law of our fathers. I am just as zealous for God as any of you here today.


The Jews were constantly accusing Paul of teaching against the law, to which he would say he indeed wasn't doing that. Fast forward to today and now it's the gentiles for the most part claiming the same thing about him. Almost everything he wrote references a passage in "OT" scripture, and not just once but in multiple places throughout his letters.

This is why it's important to study the law in order to make sure we're not committing the same mistake as the Jews of the 1st century when reading his letters.

Hi Yahshua,

I guarantee you, that no Christian is keeping the law, nor are we to do so. We are under a different covenant, saved by grace through faith and not by the works of the law. We follow Christ and are led by the Spirit. Jesus fulfilled the law, meeting it righteous requirements on behalf of every believer, something that we could never do. When one puts himself under the law, he is bound to keep the whole law. Once you break it in one place, you've broken the whole law.

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus is the end of the Law for those who believe.

 

[crossnote]

If Paul lived today he would have his doctorate in the Law. He lived and breathe the law...he just lacked the truth of the Messiah to complete his knowledge prior to the Holy Spirit. It's why he spoke the way he did. VERY VERY scholarly. But this is why Peter said anyone not established in the foundational teachings can twist Paul's words and teachings.

Yes Paul knew the law inside and out. He also knew He was dead to the law and that his righteousness was not found in the law but faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Galatians 2:19-20 (KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Philippians 3:8-9 (KJV) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Blik]

Hi Yahshua,

I guarantee you, that no Christian is keeping the law, nor are we to do so. We are under a different covenant, saved by grace through faith and not by the works of the law. We follow Christ and are led by the Spirit. Jesus fulfilled the law, meeting it righteous requirements on behalf of every believer, something that we could never do. When one puts himself under the law, he is bound to keep the whole law. Once you break it in one place, you've broken the whole law.

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus is the end of the Law for those who believe.

I disagree with you that because we are saved by grace, not law, we are not asked to keep the law. Keeping the law never results in our salvation, but a saved person who has been freed of sin through grace is asked not to go back to that sin.

The fact is that we, being made of flesh, sin even though we do not want to sin as Paul tells us, but that fact has no bearing at all on that we are asked to repent of all sin.

Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 John 2:3 By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

 

[Yahshua]

Hi Yahshua,

I guarantee you, that no Christian is keeping the law, nor are we to do so. We are under a different covenant, saved by grace through faith and not by the works of the law. We follow Christ and are led by the Spirit. Jesus fulfilled the law, meeting it righteous requirements on behalf of every believer, something that we could never do. When one puts himself under the law, he is bound to keep the whole law. Once you break it in one place, you've broken the whole law.

"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus is the end of the Law for those who believe.

Yes Paul knew the law inside and out. He also knew He was dead to the law and that his righteousness was not found in the law but faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Galatians 2:19-20 (KJV) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Philippians 3:8-9 (KJV) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Trust me you guys, I have no desire to (re)enter into a debate on the law. You've been here as long as I have (if not longer) so you remember how heated things got here. Also, I personally believe there's no more time for such convincing anyhow what with the next stage of this grand drama around the corner. So "whoever's ____ let them be ___ still" is my motto at this present moment lol (I dunno...maybe it'll change).

However, in answering this thread's question, I must insist that not once did Paul speak/teach against the law or fail to observe it. The Jews (primarily the pharisees) would accuse him of such, but it was untrue per his words and the elders'.

Now if Paul said he wasn't...and if the elders said Paul wasn't...and if Peter said Paul's words can be twisted...then clearly we - approx. 2000 years removed - must be extra careful to make sure we're not claiming the same thing about Paul as the Jews of the 1st century did.