Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[Hakawaka]

Why are you trying to change the plain meaning of Scripture to fit your eschatology? Everyone here is claiming that all this has been fulfilled. But since the reign of the Antichrist is in the future, that totally refutes this idea.

Following the reign of the Antichrist will be the eternal reign of Christ, when everlasting righteousness will LITERALLY be established on earth. A righteous earth free from sin and evil. That is what this prophecy is all about. A righteous Jerusalem, a righteous Israel, and a righteous earth. An end of sins. An end of transgressions. An end to iniquity. Since none of this has happened let's move away from fantasy.

Problem is you are adding a gap the text doesn't have.

If we add a gap, a 2000 year gap the text loses all its meaning and prophecy is broken. Because then it wasn't 70 weeks of Daniel, it was way more than that.

Any false prophet could do that today, Jesus will return in 3 years, 3 years go by, well you know, its still three years its still going we are in the invisible gap.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He was killed in the middle of the 70th week.

Explanation given here:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

No he was not.

And I do not need to go to your web site. I have shown how that is impossible.

Even jesus himself said over and over his time was not yet. The prophet told us when messiah the prince would come.

Zechariah 9:9
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.

There is nothing in the OT that states messiah will come being baptized by john the baptist.

The sacrifice and burnt offering will be stopped by an abomination which causes desolation in the Holy Place.

that was not the cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, it is a full 70th week.

It says He confirmed it for a week.

And He did - right down to the end of the week - when Paul began to take the Gospel to the Gentiles - which is part of the promises in the Covenant.

when did Jesus confirm a covenant? for the many?

scripture please

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It has.


Correct!

The actual AoD, according to prophecy, occurred in 167 B.C. - and was [only] referred to (indirectly) by the prophecy concerning the desolation of 70 A.D.

False

Matthew 24:15
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

Jesus confirmed it was yet to be a future event.

and it would be SEEN by the people.

This has NEVER happened

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True. However, the words "no flesh" - in the context of the passage - do not necessitate that "all flesh" (in existence) is the "pool" of flesh from which "no flesh would be saved"...

The scope of the "pool" of flesh must be determined from the passage.

yep

Great tribulation
World wide
All flesh would die
For sake of elect, He will cut it shot.

NOTHING in the passage claims flesh = elect.

Thats twisting or adding something to the passage not there

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Am still hoping for an answer from the Daniel 'experts'

1) What does masah qodes qodes mean?

2) (To me it's abomination that I even have to ask this, but,)
Has it been fulfilled, or is part of the unfulfilled bit?

never heard of it. Looked it up in google and yahoo. does not come up

How about referencing where it is found in scripture

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope. Sorry. No such thing.

The AoD is not even [specifically] mentioned in Daniel 9 - need to go to Daniel 11-12 for that...

wrong

Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

Footnotes

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So the very sinful consequence of futurism that we now see is nominal Christians
lobbying for a temple in Jerusalem, in order to hasten Christ's return.
They believe by setting up for the fictional 7 year tribulation, they are invoking Christ's return.

What utter witchcraft.

if anyone is trying to hasten building a temple thinking it will hasten christ return. they are foolish I agree..

you could say there are fools in every belief system.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi TDW,

Revelation 20 seems to be about the resurrected Saints.

Daniel 7 is about the fate of apostate Israel, and obviously there comes a time where the Jews are regathered,
which is when they are brought into the Church, and they 'possess the kingdom'.

um daniel 7 is about how 4 gentile kingdoms will rule over jerusalem. The final kingdom to be destroyed by Jesus himself

Paul spoke of this "time of the gentiles" in romans 11

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did you agree when Trump designated Jerusalem the capital of Israel?
Is this at source an evangelical movement to allow the Temple to be rebuilt?
Wasn't the historic site of the Tabernacle Shiloh?

so Trump represents Christians?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

An antichrist is someone who:

denies the Godhead of Jesus
denies that he is the Messiah
denies that Jesus was resurrected from the dead

And John says there is a spiritual force behind it.
Like Paul did:

Ephesians 2:2 the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Yep

But the antichrist we speak of is a world leader in the last days. The future prince. Who will rule the world and be destroyed by Christ himself

He has many names. So lets look at context when we speak of who this person is.. It is not a bunch of antichrists. It is THE....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Problem is you are adding a gap the text doesn't have.

If we add a gap, a 2000 year gap the text loses all its meaning and prophecy is broken. Because then it wasn't 70 weeks of Daniel, it was way more than that.

Any false prophet could do that today, Jesus will return in 3 years, 3 years go by, well you know, its still three years its still going we are in the invisible gap.

actually the gap is easy to see

Dan 9
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;

Completed at the cross

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Occured almost 4 decades later

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The city and sanctuary will remain desolate for an indeterminate amount of time. As hesys said, there will be wars and rumors of wars. nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom. But the end (of desolations) is not yet

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

Here starts the begining of the 70th week. With an unknown gap in between.

But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

Here is the abomination of desolation. WHich ceases all sacrifice and burnt offering, because the holy place is rendered unclean. (the purpose of an Abomination (Idle or unclean thing) that makes desolate

Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

And here is great tribulation also knows as the time of Jacobs trouble or the time of Gods wrath. Which will be stopped by Jesus return.

 

[Hakawaka]

actually the gap is easy to see

Dan 9
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself;

Completed at the cross

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Occured almost 4 decades later

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The city and sanctuary will remain desolate for an indeterminate amount of time. As hesys said, there will be wars and rumors of wars. nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom. But the end (of desolations) is not yet

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

Here starts the begining of the 70th week. With an unknown gap in between.

But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

Here is the abomination of desolation. WHich ceases all sacrifice and burnt offering, because the holy place is rendered unclean. (the purpose of an Abomination (Idle or unclean thing) that makes desolate

Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

And here is great tribulation also knows as the time of Jacobs trouble or the time of Gods wrath. Which will be stopped by Jesus return.

I understand the way you see it, I appreciate the explanation and I believe this is one way to read the text, a viable one. But weren't sacrifices and burnt offerings ceased also once before AD 70 and then again at AD 70?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand the way you see it, I appreciate the explanation and I believe this is one way to read the text, a viable one. But weren't sacrifices and burnt offerings ceased also once before AD 70 and then again at AD 70?

the reason they ceased in 70 AD is the temple was destroyed. I could venture when Jesus died and the curtain was rent in two it ceased then too.

In dan 9. the reason the sacrifice will cease is because an abomination of desolation was placed in the Holy Place. We see an example of this when Antiocus epiphanies slaughtered a pid in the holy place rendering sacrifice and burnt offering impossible, until the holy place was rendered clean again.

Jesus also said we would see it standing in the holy place

The did not happen in the time period we are discussing.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Problem is you are adding a gap the text doesn't have.

God intended that there should be a gap between the first and second coming of Christ. That gap would be the Church Age, and we know that for a fact. We also know that the Great Tribulation will precede the second coming of Christ, and that the Abomination of Desolation will trigger that. At the same time we know that the one who will set up the Abomination will be none other than the Antichrist.

 

[Hakawaka]

the reason they ceased in 70 AD is the temple was destroyed. I could venture when Jesus died and the curtain was rent in two it ceased then too.

In dan 9. the reason the sacrifice will cease is because an abomination of desolation was placed in the Holy Place. We see an example of this when Antiocus epiphanies slaughtered a pid in the holy place rendering sacrifice and burnt offering impossible, until the holy place was rendered clean again.

Jesus also said we would see it standing in the holy place

The did not happen in the time period we are discussing.

I see. I remember reading about that in the book of Maccabees, I believed this was the abomination desolation, which it probably was, but this was before Jesus and Jesus spoke of it still future while on earth, which proves there are atleast 2 of these occurances.

Would you say that one in the book of Maccabees counts as an abomination as well?

 

[OldSage]

never heard of it. Looked it up in google and yahoo. does not come up

How about referencing where it is found in scripture

Sure. My apologies.
I thought the Hebrew would generate a bit of interest.
Daniel 9 - 24: 'anoint the Holy of Holies'

 

[OldSage]

What about John Hagee?

Well, I tried a couple of videos.....can't find his opinion on it.

 

[OldSage]

so Trump represents Christians?

I am not American.
I did hear Trump say he was a Christian, and that his mother gave him a Bible once.
Now he's gone I miss him a bit. He was colourful, and didn't seem hell-bent on starting a new war every few weeks.
But these are just worldly thoughts. I really know nothing about his track record.
He seemed to roll over and die suspiciously easily at the end.

I guess he was no Cyrus though, or else he would still be in power.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see. I remember reading about that in the book of Maccabees, I believed this was the abomination desolation, which it probably was, but this was before Jesus and Jesus spoke of it still future while on earth, which proves there are atleast 2 of these occurances.

Would you say that one in the book of Maccabees counts as an abomination as well?

Yes. I believed it was also prophecied in the book of Daniel also.

Dan 11: 29 “At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter. 30 For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage.
“So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 And]forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.

Remember, the hebrew word translation abomination literally means an idol or an unclean thing.

the term abomination which makes desolate or abomination of desolation is literally an idol or unclean thing place in a holy place rendering it unclean.