Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future
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I take it that you do not believe that the following person that Daniel 7 refers to...
... and described there as [having] "a mouth that spake very great things" (v.20) and who "shall speak great words against the most High" in the same way that the first beast of Rev13:5-7,1 does: "[there was given unto him] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies..."
[and let the reader note how Dan7:22 connects with Rev20:4a]...
... you do not see as being the same person (and referring to the same time-slot)?
IOW, you believe zero of what is written in Daniel speaks prophetically of a far-future person and time period, am I reading you right?
[Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by/through [dia] the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." i.e. His OT prophets and OT prophecies]
... and described there as [having] "a mouth that spake very great things" (v.20) and who "shall speak great words against the most High" in the same way that the first beast of Rev13:5-7,1 does: "[there was given unto him] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies..."
[and let the reader note how Dan7:22 connects with Rev20:4a]...
... you do not see as being the same person (and referring to the same time-slot)?
IOW, you believe zero of what is written in Daniel speaks prophetically of a far-future person and time period, am I reading you right?
[Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by/through [dia] the mouth of His holy prophets from the age." i.e. His OT prophets and OT prophecies]
The little horn "tr(ies) to change the set times and the laws*"
By tampering with Daniel, and inventing Futurism & Preterism,
the Jesuits are fulfilling this prophecy of the little horn.
Daniel is a set prophetic judgment on Israel, and by putting it into the future they literally
are trying to change God's judgment on Israel. As the judgment is a Legal judgment emanating from the Old Covenant,
they literally are trying to change God's appointed times and Laws.
Preterism, from what I understand, tries to roll Christ's penultimate and last Coming together,
again literally trying to change seasons and laws, as his penultimate coming was a legal
judgment emanating from the Law.
* Ezra 7:25-26 Laws of God and Law of God are used interchangeably
By tampering with Daniel, and inventing Futurism & Preterism,
the Jesuits are fulfilling this prophecy of the little horn.
Daniel is a set prophetic judgment on Israel, and by putting it into the future they literally
are trying to change God's judgment on Israel. As the judgment is a Legal judgment emanating from the Old Covenant,
they literally are trying to change God's appointed times and Laws.
Preterism, from what I understand, tries to roll Christ's penultimate and last Coming together,
again literally trying to change seasons and laws, as his penultimate coming was a legal
judgment emanating from the Law.
* Ezra 7:25-26 Laws of God and Law of God are used interchangeably
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Do you believe Revelation 20:4a "and judgment was given unto them" is past (perhaps fulfilled in 70ad-ish), or is future yet?
And I take it you do not see any parallel between this verse and that of Daniel 7:22? "and judgment was given unto the saints of the most High..."? (perhaps, a prophecy of yet-future events??) Or do you?
And I take it you do not see any parallel between this verse and that of Daniel 7:22? "and judgment was given unto the saints of the most High..."? (perhaps, a prophecy of yet-future events??) Or do you?
"Saints" OF ALL TIMES??
20:4b is about the resurrected saints who will have been "beheaded" or martyred/killed [die] during a very specific, limited, future time period (i.e. last half of the Trib yrs [roughly the last 3.5 yrs leading up to Christ's "RETURN" to the earth])... but 20:4a is not about those particular saints. I believe 20:4a speaks of the "still-living" ones (just as Dan7:22 does... and Dan7:22 speaking of the same time period, per v.25, i.e. the end of that time period... and just as Dan12:12 refers to, or close proximity ["BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"--corresponding with about 7-8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking of SAME])
20:4b is about the resurrected saints who will have been "beheaded" or martyred/killed [die] during a very specific, limited, future time period (i.e. last half of the Trib yrs [roughly the last 3.5 yrs leading up to Christ's "RETURN" to the earth])... but 20:4a is not about those particular saints. I believe 20:4a speaks of the "still-living" ones (just as Dan7:22 does... and Dan7:22 speaking of the same time period, per v.25, i.e. the end of that time period... and just as Dan12:12 refers to, or close proximity ["BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"--corresponding with about 7-8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking of SAME])
It's a slight detour, let's hope the thread stays focused.
from the independent:
Donald Trump told supporters in Oshkosh, Wisconsin on Monday that he formally recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moved the US Embassy there for the benefit of his evangelical Christian supporters.
"And we moved the capital of Israel to Jerusalem," he said. "That's for the evangelicals."
from the independent:
Donald Trump told supporters in Oshkosh, Wisconsin on Monday that he formally recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moved the US Embassy there for the benefit of his evangelical Christian supporters.
"And we moved the capital of Israel to Jerusalem," he said. "That's for the evangelicals."
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It's not a subject I am up on TDW. (And it may deserve a separate thread).
My understanding is that the end-time recipe in the American Theological Cookbook
has a heavy admixture of futurism, and that certain evangelicals promote the rebuilding of the Temple in order to
accelerate Christ's return, as they see the Temple as a pre-requisite for the AC, and the AC as an essential pre-requisite for Christ's return.
All of it total hokum, and very blasphemous in the extreme.
My understanding is that the end-time recipe in the American Theological Cookbook
has a heavy admixture of futurism, and that certain evangelicals promote the rebuilding of the Temple in order to
accelerate Christ's return, as they see the Temple as a pre-requisite for the AC, and the AC as an essential pre-requisite for Christ's return.
All of it total hokum, and very blasphemous in the extreme.
E
Dan 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Daniel was given a vision and couldn't understand it. Notice the 2300 days. Then the Angel Gabriel came to help Daniel, but he still didn't get it. "make this man to understand the vision."
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.
So Daniel is sick and can't understand it.... But then Gabriel comes back....
Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
This needs to be connected to the 2300 day vision in chapter 8.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
70 weeks out of the 2300 days were given to Israel to get things right.
Same starting point for both.
Dan 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Daniel was given a vision and couldn't understand it. Notice the 2300 days. Then the Angel Gabriel came to help Daniel, but he still didn't get it. "make this man to understand the vision."
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.
So Daniel is sick and can't understand it.... But then Gabriel comes back....
Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
This needs to be connected to the 2300 day vision in chapter 8.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
70 weeks out of the 2300 days were given to Israel to get things right.
Same starting point for both.
the 69th week ended when messiah was Introduced to the nation while riding on a donkey, as prophesied. remember Jesus always said, it is not my time yet,
also the time does not fit, the time fits perfectly when Jesus entered Jerusalem on the donkey, he even lamented over Jerusalem, saying if they only knew the time of his comming, but now it will be hidden from them
also. Sacrifice and burnt offering continued until 70 AD, the cross is not the abomination of desolation which caused sacrifice to cease (an unclean thing placed in the holy place, (even Jesus said when you see it standing in the holy place run)
finally. There was no 7 year covenant confirmed 3.5 years before the cross
I can goon and on and on about the problems with your time chart
E
Niether do I.
And we both cant be right.
so lets show some humility for a change and stick to discussing the word. Not attacking others of being stupid or lost.
I did not know we were discussing pre-trib. Where did you get this idea? I thought we were discussing Dan 9?
As for as pre-trib goes. There will be a rapture (catching up) of the church. To be a historist and claim this is never going to happen. well thats a trap of false belief (when it will happen is just a belief, and really does not matter)
And we both cant be right.
so lets show some humility for a change and stick to discussing the word. Not attacking others of being stupid or lost.
I did not know we were discussing pre-trib. Where did you get this idea? I thought we were discussing Dan 9?
As for as pre-trib goes. There will be a rapture (catching up) of the church. To be a historist and claim this is never going to happen. well thats a trap of false belief (when it will happen is just a belief, and really does not matter)