Why are we christians in the habit of misapplying this text?
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S
you don't have to worry about that
you, are actually SUBTRACTING from what is written
for the rest of us, again, context is applicable and the key to understanding.
Who is Paul writing to? well the Corinthian church, the believers of which had all kinds of problems. Here, Paul is saying don't speculate. The word of God takes precedence over all your speculating...of course in this instance, folks did not have a New Testament, but they did have teachers anointed by the Spirit of God and taking sides, Peter vs Paul, was not in keeping with the word they had heard
Further, the gifts are given for the building up of the body (of Christ, ie believers) and not for personal gain or use
you, are actually SUBTRACTING from what is written
for the rest of us, again, context is applicable and the key to understanding.
Who is Paul writing to? well the Corinthian church, the believers of which had all kinds of problems. Here, Paul is saying don't speculate. The word of God takes precedence over all your speculating...of course in this instance, folks did not have a New Testament, but they did have teachers anointed by the Spirit of God and taking sides, Peter vs Paul, was not in keeping with the word they had heard
Further, the gifts are given for the building up of the body (of Christ, ie believers) and not for personal gain or use
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You just ignored everything that I said to you. Pay attention! As I said, we are not misapplying what Jesus said regarding John 16:13. By your claim, you would be saying that the word of God is only applicable to those who were present to hear it. According to you then, the letters to the seven churches in Revelation would only be applicable to John, because he's the only one who heard it. Yet the information was for the seven churches and to the entire church period.
What do you think the written word of God is? It is spoken word written down and is applicable to everyone past, present and future.
Therefore, when we read that Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bring to your remembrance everything I have told you, it is not only to those who heard it audibly, but those of us who are reading His word as well and which is the very reason it was written. Do we not also have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us? Is He not able then to bring to our remembrance anything that we have read that Jesus said from the word of God?
What do you think the written word of God is? It is spoken word written down and is applicable to everyone past, present and future.
Therefore, when we read that Jesus said the Holy Spirit will bring to your remembrance everything I have told you, it is not only to those who heard it audibly, but those of us who are reading His word as well and which is the very reason it was written. Do we not also have the Holy Spirit dwelling within us? Is He not able then to bring to our remembrance anything that we have read that Jesus said from the word of God?
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S
in case the above is not clear, ( post 62) here is the verse in question (even out of context you can see the purpose)
6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.
Paul is clearly saying do not go beyond what is written with respect to the Corinthians arguing over they want to 'follow'
See the 'then' in the second sentence...that refers to the sentence before it. THEN, reveals Paul's conclusion to the first sentence
I mean honestly...people need to quit putting weird spiritual meanings on the most benign of expressions
6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.
Paul is clearly saying do not go beyond what is written with respect to the Corinthians arguing over they want to 'follow'
See the 'then' in the second sentence...that refers to the sentence before it. THEN, reveals Paul's conclusion to the first sentence
I mean honestly...people need to quit putting weird spiritual meanings on the most benign of expressions
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amen
I think sometimes we forget yes the context does matter, however, the authorial intent was to those then in that time frame and we are supposed to apply it to us today and God confirms His word to ensure us we are on the right track. Every Prophecy in the word of God had a then application because Prophecy forth tells and foretells.
For example in Isaiah 7:14 the text says in Hebrew
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, the young woman who is unmarried and a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us].
Those in the day of Isaiah were expecting that virgin in their day to conceive and the word "Virgin " also was a maiden or young girl.
The context of that prophecy was not fulfilled in the day it was said but 600 years after it was said. in 600 years how many times do you think it was applied? The Birth of Jesus was so powerful brought that Prophecy 600 years ago to Completion without a doubt.
I think sometimes we forget yes the context does matter, however, the authorial intent was to those then in that time frame and we are supposed to apply it to us today and God confirms His word to ensure us we are on the right track. Every Prophecy in the word of God had a then application because Prophecy forth tells and foretells.
For example in Isaiah 7:14 the text says in Hebrew
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, the young woman who is unmarried and a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel [God with us].
Those in the day of Isaiah were expecting that virgin in their day to conceive and the word "Virgin " also was a maiden or young girl.
The context of that prophecy was not fulfilled in the day it was said but 600 years after it was said. in 600 years how many times do you think it was applied? The Birth of Jesus was so powerful brought that Prophecy 600 years ago to Completion without a doubt.
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I agree that in context Jesus was only speaking to the apostles but the question I have for you is did you stop reading there. Speaking for myself I find great comfort in the next two verses.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
Also have you never experienced the aid of the Holy Spirit when He brings a verse to mind at just the right time. I have many times. The Holy Spirit was sent to guides us into understanding the scriptures. With out him scripture would just be words on a page. That is why unbelievers do not understand the bible.
Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
Joh 14:28 You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
Also have you never experienced the aid of the Holy Spirit when He brings a verse to mind at just the right time. I have many times. The Holy Spirit was sent to guides us into understanding the scriptures. With out him scripture would just be words on a page. That is why unbelievers do not understand the bible.
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You need to read the preceding chapters to get the meaning. It helps to know that the NT is not in chronological order. For example, the gospels were the last to be written but appear first. Corinthians was the 5th epistle. So Paul could not have been referring to the whole of the NT because it did not exist as it is now.
Paul was referring to what had been written to the Corinthians.
I'll give you an example of what I mean. I had a serious question about Adam's sin. Why did God not just wipe out Adam and start again. I persisted in asking God because it bugged me. Why not kill off Adam and Eve and start afresh? I got this answer.
The Lord said that He had killed the race of Adam and started afresh. Lord Jesus tasted death for every man (Hebrews 2:9). When we believe, we are included in Christ's death (Colossians 3:3), so the race of Adam we were born into is dead to us. Through the resurrection of Christ, we are made to be new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17). Lord Jesus is called the "Last Adam". He obeyed God perfectly and so there is not need for another Adam. (1 Corinthians 15:45).
It's all there in the NT. I needed it to be strung together in a way that I could understand. That is revelation. If Christians had revelation, most of the queries on this chat channel would be unnecessary. Many problems would be resolved and Christians would be much more stable.
Paul did not pray "…16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints,…" to pad out his epistle to the Ephesians. He meant what he said because he saw the spiritual blessings it would bring.
Paul was referring to what had been written to the Corinthians.
I'll give you an example of what I mean. I had a serious question about Adam's sin. Why did God not just wipe out Adam and start again. I persisted in asking God because it bugged me. Why not kill off Adam and Eve and start afresh? I got this answer.
The Lord said that He had killed the race of Adam and started afresh. Lord Jesus tasted death for every man (Hebrews 2:9). When we believe, we are included in Christ's death (Colossians 3:3), so the race of Adam we were born into is dead to us. Through the resurrection of Christ, we are made to be new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17). Lord Jesus is called the "Last Adam". He obeyed God perfectly and so there is not need for another Adam. (1 Corinthians 15:45).
It's all there in the NT. I needed it to be strung together in a way that I could understand. That is revelation. If Christians had revelation, most of the queries on this chat channel would be unnecessary. Many problems would be resolved and Christians would be much more stable.
Paul did not pray "…16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints,…" to pad out his epistle to the Ephesians. He meant what he said because he saw the spiritual blessings it would bring.
From the context of Isaiah 7 the woman back then was already pregnant.
Footnotes
Footnotes
- Isaiah 7:14 This prophecy of the virgin is declared in Matt 1:22, 23 to be fulfilled in the birth of Jesus. There has been a great deal of discussion over the Hebrew word found here for virgin (almah) and the word that Matthew uses (parthenos). The latter refers unambiguously to a virgin, while the former (almah) has been said to refer to a young woman, in contrast to the Hebrew word bethulah, which is the equivalent of the Gr parthenos. It has also been noted that the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew OT, has parthenos here for almah, and that Matt 1:23 is taken from the Septuagint. Some have wondered why the Septuagint translators used the more specific word parthenos. It is fair to say that this question is the result of oversimplifying the vocabulary and misinterpreting the distinctions. The Hebrew words almah and bethulah can actually refer to the same kind of woman; almah is a youthful woman of marriageable age, one who has not yet had her first child, while bethulah is one who has not been touched in an intimate way. Furthermore, in the present context it would be unthinkable to infer that the woman might have had sexual relations outside of marriage. So the well-known translation of “young woman” for almah, while technically not incorrect, can be viewed as too ambiguous for the Hebrew word and the context. Parthenos was an appropriate choice in the Greek. Another word, kore (for “girl”) could have been used, but it has a wider range of meaning than the Heb almah (Mark uses a related word, korasion, to translate Jesus’ Aramaic word talitha). It should also be acknowledged from a theological perspective that when Matthew cites the verse with parthenos, he thereby authenticates it as inspired.
Isaiah 7
Easy-to-Read Version
Trouble With Aram
7 Ahaz was the son of Jotham, who was the son of Uzziah. Rezin was the king of Aram, Pekah son of Remaliah[a] was the king of Israel. When Ahaz was king of Judah, Rezin and Pekah went up to Jerusalem to attack it, but they were not able to defeat the city.
2 The family of David received a message that said, “The armies of Aram and Ephraim have joined together in one camp.” When King Ahaz heard this message, he and the people became frightened. They shook with fear like trees of the forest blowing in the wind.
3 Then the Lord told Isaiah, “You and your son Shear Jashub[c] should go out and talk to Ahaz. Go to the place where the water flows into the Upper Pool,[d] on the street that leads up to Laundryman’s Field.
4 “Tell Ahaz, ‘Be careful, but be calm. Don’t be afraid. Don’t let those two men, Rezin and Remaliah’s son,[e] frighten you! They are like two burning sticks. They might be hot now, but soon they will be nothing but smoke. Rezin, Aram, and Remaliah’s son became angry 5 and made plans against you. They said, 6 “Let’s go fight against Judah and divide it among ourselves. Then we will make Tabeel’s son the new king of Judah.”’”
7 But the Lord God says, “Their plan will not succeed. It will not happen 8 because Aram depends on its capital Damascus, and Damascus is led by its weak king Rezin. And don’t worry about Ephraim. Within 65 years it will be crushed, no longer a nation. 9 Ephraim depends on its capital Samaria, and Samaria is led by Remaliah’s son. So you have no reason to fear. Believe this, or you will not survive.”
Immanuel—God Is With Us
10 Then the Lord spoke to Ahaz again 11 and said, “Ask for a sign from the Lord your God to prove to yourself that this is true. You can ask for any sign you want. The sign can come from a place as deep as Sheol[f] or as high as the skies.[g]”
12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask for a sign as proof. I will not test the Lord.”
13 Then Isaiah said, “Family of David, listen very carefully! Is it not enough that you would test the patience of humans? Will you now test the patience of my God? 14 But the Lord will still show you this sign:
The young woman is pregnant[h]
and will give birth to a son.
She will name him Immanuel.
15 He will eat milk curds and honey[j]
as he learns to choose good and refuse evil.
16 But before he is old enough to make that choice,
the land of the two kings you fear will be empty.
17 “But the Lord will bring troubled times to you. These troubles will be worse than anything that has happened since the time Israel separated from Judah. This will happen to your people and to your father’s family when God brings the king of Assyria to fight against you.
18 “At that time the Lord will call for the ‘Fly’ that is now near the streams of Egypt, and he will call for the ‘Bee’ that is now in the country of Assyria. Those enemies will come to your country. 19 They will settle in the deep valleys and in the caves, by the thorn bushes and watering holes. 20 The Lord will use Assyria to punish Judah. Assyria will be hired and used like a razor to shave off Judah’s beard and to remove the hair from his head and body.[k]
21 “At that time someone might keep only one young cow and two sheep alive. 22 But there will be enough milk for them to eat milk curds. In fact, everyone left in the country will eat milk curds and honey. 23 There are now fields that have 1000 grapevines, and each grapevine is worth 1000 pieces of silver. But those fields will be covered with weeds and thorns. 24 That land will be wild and used only as a hunting ground where people go with bows and arrows. 25 People once worked the soil and grew food on these hills, but at that time they will not go there, because the fields will be covered with weeds and thorns. It will be a place where cattle graze and sheep wander.”
Easy-to-Read Version
Trouble With Aram
7 Ahaz was the son of Jotham, who was the son of Uzziah. Rezin was the king of Aram, Pekah son of Remaliah[a] was the king of Israel. When Ahaz was king of Judah, Rezin and Pekah went up to Jerusalem to attack it, but they were not able to defeat the city.
2 The family of David received a message that said, “The armies of Aram and Ephraim have joined together in one camp.” When King Ahaz heard this message, he and the people became frightened. They shook with fear like trees of the forest blowing in the wind.
3 Then the Lord told Isaiah, “You and your son Shear Jashub[c] should go out and talk to Ahaz. Go to the place where the water flows into the Upper Pool,[d] on the street that leads up to Laundryman’s Field.
4 “Tell Ahaz, ‘Be careful, but be calm. Don’t be afraid. Don’t let those two men, Rezin and Remaliah’s son,[e] frighten you! They are like two burning sticks. They might be hot now, but soon they will be nothing but smoke. Rezin, Aram, and Remaliah’s son became angry 5 and made plans against you. They said, 6 “Let’s go fight against Judah and divide it among ourselves. Then we will make Tabeel’s son the new king of Judah.”’”
7 But the Lord God says, “Their plan will not succeed. It will not happen 8 because Aram depends on its capital Damascus, and Damascus is led by its weak king Rezin. And don’t worry about Ephraim. Within 65 years it will be crushed, no longer a nation. 9 Ephraim depends on its capital Samaria, and Samaria is led by Remaliah’s son. So you have no reason to fear. Believe this, or you will not survive.”
Immanuel—God Is With Us
10 Then the Lord spoke to Ahaz again 11 and said, “Ask for a sign from the Lord your God to prove to yourself that this is true. You can ask for any sign you want. The sign can come from a place as deep as Sheol[f] or as high as the skies.[g]”
12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask for a sign as proof. I will not test the Lord.”
13 Then Isaiah said, “Family of David, listen very carefully! Is it not enough that you would test the patience of humans? Will you now test the patience of my God? 14 But the Lord will still show you this sign:
The young woman is pregnant[h]
and will give birth to a son.
She will name him Immanuel.
15 He will eat milk curds and honey[j]
as he learns to choose good and refuse evil.
16 But before he is old enough to make that choice,
the land of the two kings you fear will be empty.
17 “But the Lord will bring troubled times to you. These troubles will be worse than anything that has happened since the time Israel separated from Judah. This will happen to your people and to your father’s family when God brings the king of Assyria to fight against you.
18 “At that time the Lord will call for the ‘Fly’ that is now near the streams of Egypt, and he will call for the ‘Bee’ that is now in the country of Assyria. Those enemies will come to your country. 19 They will settle in the deep valleys and in the caves, by the thorn bushes and watering holes. 20 The Lord will use Assyria to punish Judah. Assyria will be hired and used like a razor to shave off Judah’s beard and to remove the hair from his head and body.[k]
21 “At that time someone might keep only one young cow and two sheep alive. 22 But there will be enough milk for them to eat milk curds. In fact, everyone left in the country will eat milk curds and honey. 23 There are now fields that have 1000 grapevines, and each grapevine is worth 1000 pieces of silver. But those fields will be covered with weeds and thorns. 24 That land will be wild and used only as a hunting ground where people go with bows and arrows. 25 People once worked the soil and grew food on these hills, but at that time they will not go there, because the fields will be covered with weeds and thorns. It will be a place where cattle graze and sheep wander.”
- Isaiah 7:14 Or “young woman”
Isaiah 7:14
Revised Standard Version
14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman
The text was applied to Jesus from the LXX which refutes the Hebrew gospel of Matthew.
The Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew does have young woman who is pregnant.
"3 The first mention of Maher-shalal-hash-baz, in the phrase, “concerning Mahershalal-hash-baz” (lsaiah 8:1), introduces not Isaiah’s son but rather a prophecy concerning the forthcoming Assyrian attack. The child’s birth occurs in Isaiah 8:3. Some commentators then assume that according to their respective commands, the mother names the child, “God is with us” (Isaiah 7:14), and the father, “Speedily to the spoil, hurrying to the plunder” (Isaiah 8:3). According to their explanation, the child’s ability to differentiate between good and evil (Isaiah 7:15-16) and ability to say “my mother” or “my father” (Isaiah 8:4) occurs simultaneously. The name Maher-shalal-hash-baz refers to God’s promise to defeat Samaria and Damascus and to send Assyria to carry off the wealth of these two nations, before turning to devastate Judah. "
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/chapter-18b-the-virgin-misconception-myth
https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/chapter-18b-the-virgin-misconception-myth
S
your flawed logic would have nothing in scripture pertaining to people in this century or for that matter anyone other than the disciples
oh wait. that's what you said. LOL!
dude...does not seem like you believe scripture because you were not there for the resurrection
I mean seriously, do you not see how silly you sound?
oh wait. that's what you said. LOL!
dude...does not seem like you believe scripture because you were not there for the resurrection
I mean seriously, do you not see how silly you sound?