Escape is unneeded as the only living beings on Earth are immortal at the time of the New Heaven and new Earth. All the unrighteous will be in the lake of fire at that same time.
Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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Escape is unneeded as the only living beings on Earth are immortal at the time of the New Heaven and new Earth. All the unrighteous will be in the lake of fire at that same time.
I already said the Real Jesus comes after the tribulation. The rapture is not pretrib. Read first post.
Yes he does.
Most everyone agrees that He does.
But you have no rapure verses placing it postrib
Rev 14 gathering is DURING the gt.
You have no verses to support your theory.
....and yet Jesus actually provided us with noah and lot.
Neither were gathered AFTER the judgement
Postribbers modify verses.
Rev 14
Rev 19
Mat 25
Acts 1
All are simple and pretrib.
Last supper has more info as well as the bride IN HEAVEN. And becoming the wife in rev 19
Do we really need to change the bible????
sleep is the spiritless body.
So Jesus is bringing with him resurrect saints in glorified bodies.
That works for either side of the pre/post rapture debate
Really?
They escort them back outside the throne room of the king.
Postrib rapture is so unbelievably debunked. In every dynamic it fails.
Your link is to a no rapture site.
Pure baloney
Matthew 24:19-31
Easy-to-Read Version
19 “During that time it will be hard for women who are pregnant or have small babies! 20 Pray that it will not be winter or a Sabbath day when these things happen and you have to run away, 21 because it will be a time of great trouble. There will be more trouble than has ever happened since the beginning of the world. And nothing as bad as that will ever happen again.
22 “But God has decided to make that terrible time short. If it were not made short, no one would continue living. But God will make that time short to help the people he has chosen.
23 “Someone might say to you at that time, ‘Look, there is the Messiah!’ Or someone else might say, ‘There he is!’ But don’t believe them. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will come and do great miracles and wonders,[a] trying to fool the people God has chosen, if that is possible. 25 Now I have warned you about this before it happens.
26 “Someone might tell you, ‘The Messiah is there in the desert!’ But don’t go into the desert to look for him. Someone else might say, ‘There is the Messiah in that room!’ But don’t believe it. 27 When the Son of Man comes, everyone will see him. It will be like lightning flashing in the sky that can be seen everywhere. 28 It’s like looking for a dead body: You will find it where the vultures are gathering above.
29 “Right after the trouble of those days, this will happen:
‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.’
30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will use a loud trumpet to send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.
Three is no rapture before tribulation in this text. If one is raptured they can not run away.
Easy-to-Read Version
19 “During that time it will be hard for women who are pregnant or have small babies! 20 Pray that it will not be winter or a Sabbath day when these things happen and you have to run away, 21 because it will be a time of great trouble. There will be more trouble than has ever happened since the beginning of the world. And nothing as bad as that will ever happen again.
22 “But God has decided to make that terrible time short. If it were not made short, no one would continue living. But God will make that time short to help the people he has chosen.
23 “Someone might say to you at that time, ‘Look, there is the Messiah!’ Or someone else might say, ‘There he is!’ But don’t believe them. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will come and do great miracles and wonders,[a] trying to fool the people God has chosen, if that is possible. 25 Now I have warned you about this before it happens.
26 “Someone might tell you, ‘The Messiah is there in the desert!’ But don’t go into the desert to look for him. Someone else might say, ‘There is the Messiah in that room!’ But don’t believe it. 27 When the Son of Man comes, everyone will see him. It will be like lightning flashing in the sky that can be seen everywhere. 28 It’s like looking for a dead body: You will find it where the vultures are gathering above.
29 “Right after the trouble of those days, this will happen:
‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.’
30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will use a loud trumpet to send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.
Three is no rapture before tribulation in this text. If one is raptured they can not run away.
Daniel 12
Easy-to-Read Version
12 “Daniel, at that time the great prince Michael will stand up. Michael is in charge of your people. There will be a time of much trouble, the worst time since nations have been on earth. But Daniel, at that time every one of your people whose name is found written in the book of life will be saved. 2 There are many who are dead and buried.[a] Some of them will wake up and live forever, but others will wake up to shame and disgrace forever. 3 The wise people will shine as bright as the sky. Those who teach others to live right will shine like stars forever and ever.
4 “But you, Daniel, keep this message a secret. You must close the book and keep this secret until the time of the end. Many people will go here and there looking for true knowledge, and the true knowledge will increase.”
5 Then I, Daniel, noticed two other men. One man was standing on my side of the river, and the other was standing on the other side. 6 The man who was dressed in linen was standing over the water in the river. One of the two men said to him, “How long will it be before these amazing things come true?”
7 The man dressed in linen and standing over the water lifted his right and left hands toward heaven. And I heard him make a promise using the name of God who lives forever. He said, “It will be for three and one-half years.[c] The power of the holy people will be broken, and then all these things will finally come true.”
8 I heard the answer, but I really didn’t understand. So I asked, “Sir, what will happen after all this comes true?”
9 He answered, “Go on about your life Daniel. The message is hidden. It will be a secret until the time of the end. 10 Many people will be made pure—they will make themselves clean. But evil people will continue to be evil. And those wicked people will not understand these things, but the wise people will understand them.
11 “The daily sacrifice will be stopped. There will be 1290 days from that time until the time that the terrible thing that destroys is set up. 12 The one who waits for and comes to the end of the 1335 days will be very happy.
13 “As for you, Daniel, go and live your life until the end. You will get your rest. At the end you will rise from death and receive your share of the promise.”
The opening verses clearly shows that tribulation comes before the second coming.
Easy-to-Read Version
12 “Daniel, at that time the great prince Michael will stand up. Michael is in charge of your people. There will be a time of much trouble, the worst time since nations have been on earth. But Daniel, at that time every one of your people whose name is found written in the book of life will be saved. 2 There are many who are dead and buried.[a] Some of them will wake up and live forever, but others will wake up to shame and disgrace forever. 3 The wise people will shine as bright as the sky. Those who teach others to live right will shine like stars forever and ever.
4 “But you, Daniel, keep this message a secret. You must close the book and keep this secret until the time of the end. Many people will go here and there looking for true knowledge, and the true knowledge will increase.”
5 Then I, Daniel, noticed two other men. One man was standing on my side of the river, and the other was standing on the other side. 6 The man who was dressed in linen was standing over the water in the river. One of the two men said to him, “How long will it be before these amazing things come true?”
7 The man dressed in linen and standing over the water lifted his right and left hands toward heaven. And I heard him make a promise using the name of God who lives forever. He said, “It will be for three and one-half years.[c] The power of the holy people will be broken, and then all these things will finally come true.”
8 I heard the answer, but I really didn’t understand. So I asked, “Sir, what will happen after all this comes true?”
9 He answered, “Go on about your life Daniel. The message is hidden. It will be a secret until the time of the end. 10 Many people will be made pure—they will make themselves clean. But evil people will continue to be evil. And those wicked people will not understand these things, but the wise people will understand them.
11 “The daily sacrifice will be stopped. There will be 1290 days from that time until the time that the terrible thing that destroys is set up. 12 The one who waits for and comes to the end of the 1335 days will be very happy.
13 “As for you, Daniel, go and live your life until the end. You will get your rest. At the end you will rise from death and receive your share of the promise.”
The opening verses clearly shows that tribulation comes before the second coming.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This proof positive no rapture before the tribulation otherwise those christians would not be there to be beheaded.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
This proof positive no rapture before the tribulation otherwise those christians would not be there to be beheaded.
Rev 6
10 These souls shouted in a loud voice, “Holy and true Lord, how long until you judge the people of the earth and punish them for killing us?”
Another proof positive that there is no rapture before the tribulation. They were killed during the tribualtion.
10 These souls shouted in a loud voice, “Holy and true Lord, how long until you judge the people of the earth and punish them for killing us?”
Another proof positive that there is no rapture before the tribulation. They were killed during the tribualtion.
rev 13
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
More christians that are there durling the tribulation.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
More christians that are there durling the tribulation.
Daniel 9
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The Hebrew does not allow for a break at 69 weeks. The Messiah is killed. And, sacrifices cease. No rapture in this text.
It is as we know the sacrifices ceased in 70 AD.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The Hebrew does not allow for a break at 69 weeks. The Messiah is killed. And, sacrifices cease. No rapture in this text.
It is as we know the sacrifices ceased in 70 AD.
Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Again no rapture before the tribulation. The second coming is after the tribulation.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Again no rapture before the tribulation. The second coming is after the tribulation.
Acts 14:22
King James Version
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 14:22
Easy-to-Read Version
22 In those cities they helped the followers grow stronger in their faith and encouraged them to continue trusting God. They told them, “We must suffer many things on our way into God’s kingdom.”
For some reasons it was listed as a proof text for a pretrib rapture. I do not get it. Thoughout history people of God has gone through suffering and tribulation.
King James Version
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Acts 14:22
Easy-to-Read Version
22 In those cities they helped the followers grow stronger in their faith and encouraged them to continue trusting God. They told them, “We must suffer many things on our way into God’s kingdom.”
For some reasons it was listed as a proof text for a pretrib rapture. I do not get it. Thoughout history people of God has gone through suffering and tribulation.
I hope people are not getting their knowledge from Hal Lindsey because he has been exposed for setting a date that never happened. In short, he added 40 years to 1948 to "imply" the second coming will be in 1988. In the edition before 1988 he plainly stated that as fact. After his failed prophecy, he changed it from fact to a guess.
anyone seeking documation can read
Hal Lindsey's Prophetic Jigsaw Puzzle : Five Predictions that Failed! Paperback – March 15, 1997
by Samuele Bacchiocchi (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Hal-Lindseys-Prophetic-Jigsaw-Puzzle/dp/1930987021
https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2017...net-earth-made-the-apocalypse-popular-concern
From my 1970 edition of Late Great Planet Earth,
"What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs — chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things will take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so. "
anyone seeking documation can read
Hal Lindsey's Prophetic Jigsaw Puzzle : Five Predictions that Failed! Paperback – March 15, 1997
by Samuele Bacchiocchi (Author)
https://www.amazon.com/Hal-Lindseys-Prophetic-Jigsaw-Puzzle/dp/1930987021
https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2017...net-earth-made-the-apocalypse-popular-concern
From my 1970 edition of Late Great Planet Earth,
"What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs — chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things will take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so. "