Why can't we do something not command in the Bible?

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S

SophieT

Guest
#21
The principle is that all things are lawful but not all are edifying. We need to be led by conscience and intuition. Conscience will tell us if we are on the wrong track. Intuition will guide us into what is acceptable to God.
???????????

Where does the Holy Spirit fit in here?

John 16:13
“When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#22
Hmmmmm:unsure: Do you think we are dealing with a question about.......

MASTERB@@@@@TION?:eek:

Oh yuk!!! That's a sticky one.:sick::sick::sick:
Maybe. If it is separated from all lustful fornication/adultery thoughts/desires is it ok? I'm honestly not sure. Almost seems like scratching an itch in some respects.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
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#23
The context of the fruits of the indwelling Spirit of God is that we need to get some

Actually, you are incorrect. Wrong even.

Chapter 5 of Galatians is about liberty in Christ. Why do you lawkeepers have such difficulty with that?

There is no law against the Spirit....according to Paul. How you law folk manage to mess that up is beyond comprehension

Let go of your law hugging and let Christ be your salvation instead

The entire book of Galatians is about being no longer enslaved to the law.
Sister, Paul isn't pitting the Law against the Spirit in chapter 5 or the entire book, saying "the Spirit supersedes the law". He's saying, the Spirit and the Law are in harmony but folks who try to perform cleansing tasks in the law, while STILL being evil to one another, do nothing to save/justify them in the law.

Paul says there IS a law against...:
- Adultery
- Fornication
- Uncleanness
- Lasciviousness
- Idolatry
- Witchcraft
- Hatred
- Variance
- Emulations
- Wrath
- Strife
- Seditions
- Heresies
- Envyings
- Murders
- Drunkenness
- Revellings, etc

...He then emphasizes that ANYONE doing the above will not inherit the kingdom.


But Paul adds there is NO law against...:
- Love
- Joy
- Peace
- Longsuffering
- Gentleness
- Goodness
- Faith
- Meekness
- Temperance

...and then concludes that we should operate by the 2nd list (Spirit), not the 1st list (Flesh) so we don't need to worry about violating the law...EVER.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#24
Sister, Paul isn't pitting the Law against the Spirit in chapter 5 or the entire book, saying "the Spirit supersedes the law". He's saying, the Spirit and the Law are in harmony but folks who try to perform cleansing tasks in the law, while STILL being evil to one another, does nothing to save/justify them from the law.

Paul says there IS a law against...:
- Adultery
- Fornication
- Uncleanness
- Lasciviousness
- Idolatry
- Witchcraft
- Hatred
- Variance
- Emulations
- Wrath
- Strife
- Seditions
- Heresies
- Envyings
- Murders
- Drunkenness
- Revellings, etc

...He then emphasizes that ANYONE doing the above will not inherit the kingdom.


But Paul adds there is NO law against...:
- Love
- Joy
- Peace
- Longsuffering
- Gentleness
- Goodness
- Faith
- Meekness
- Temperance

...and then concludes that we should operate by the 2nd list (Spirit), not the 1st list (Flesh) so we don't need to worry about violating the law...EVER.
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Thanks, I'll just stick with what Paul teaches :giggle:
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#25
Sister, Paul isn't pitting the Law against the Spirit in chapter 5 or the entire book,
actually this is what he says about it

1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

you know, it does not appear you actually understand the book of Galatians. seems you are somehow conflating the old with the new and that is EXACTLY what Paul is concerned about. smh

please consult perhaps a commentary or 2 for further understanding as no one is even coming close to whatever it is your point is

I cannot comprehend why some people basically make things up and then try to say someone else said it. it's strange
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
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#26
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Thanks, I'll just stick with what Paul teaches :giggle:
That's what I'm trying to help get us back to...the original gospel Paul preached, not the one most modern believers have been taught.

actually this is what he says about it

1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

you know, it does not appear you actually understand the book of Galatians

please consult perhaps commentary or 2 for further understanding as no one is even coming close to whatever it is your point is

Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


1) What does "justify" mean in the context of Paul's letter, biblically?

2) Which "works of the law" were the Galatians doing to justify a person? Were there specific ones the people were performing or does Paul mean "every law found in the code"? In other words, do you believe a command like "thou shall not bear false witness" is a "work of the law"?
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#27
That's what I'm trying to help get us back to...the original gospel Paul preached, not the one most modern believers have been taught.




Galatians 2:16
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


1) What does "justify" mean in the context of Paul's letter, biblically?

2) Which "works of the law" were the Galatians doing to justify a person? Were there specific ones the people were performing or does Paul mean "every law found in the code"? In other words, do you believe a command like "thou shall not bear false witness" is a "work of the law"?
uh huh.

Galatians is more appropriate than I originally thought

just more law keeping nonsense all dressed up in the 'original gospel' twist

since no one that I am aware of has ever stated we are free to sin, you are just wasting time. you will not address the actual scripture other than to present it according to your own persuasion

I am already persuaded that salvation is only through the blood of Christ and He fulfilled all of the law . Therefore, the wrath of God against all sin is no longer in effect for all those in Christ. I don't have to call Jesus by special names in other languages or pretend I know more than those who simply accept by faith all that God has promised to those who in Christ

What does "justify" mean in the context of Paul's letter, biblically?
what does 'O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? ' mean? Paul is comparing law there? no...he is warning those who want to incorporate any part of the law into a Gentile congregation that they are utterly deceived if they do so. FAITH through the Holy Spirit...not useless enslavery to a law no one ever kept

I'm not really asking. I know a dead end when I see one.

not responding to you further. I believe the gospel...not some convoluted twisted law keeping comparison to the gospel

understand I mean what I say
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
#28
uh huh.

Galatians is more appropriate than I originally thought

just more law keeping nonsense
At some point I would hope it would dawn on some of us that "law KEEPing" and "lawLESSness" are diametrically opposed concepts on every level imaginable; that "the spirit of lawLESSness" is against the law, just as the flesh is against the Holy Spirit.

Strong delusion.


all dressed up in the 'original gospel' twist

since no one that I am aware of has ever stated we are free to sin, you are just wasting time. you will not address the actual scripture other than to present it according to your own persuasion

I am already persuaded that salvation is only through the blood of Christ and He fulfilled all of the law . Therefore, the wrath of God against all sin is no longer in effect for all those in Christ. I don't have to call Jesus by special names in other languages or pretend I know more than those who simply accept by faith all that God has promised to those who in Christ



what does 'O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? '

I'm not really asking. I know a dead end when I see one.

not responding to you further. I believe the gospel...not some convoluted twisted law keeping comparison to the gospel

understand I mean what I say
Then take care. This is to edify others who will read it. It's amazing how some who've been so conditioned to stay miles away from the law of God (as if it's the problem) presume to know everything about it.

-----

- Do not have other gods before the Almighty
- No idolization of created things
- Do not take the Almighty's Name in vain
- Keep the Sabbath
- Honor Parents
- Do not murder
- Do not commit adultery
- Do not steal
- Do not bear false witness
- Do not covet

^ These examples are "laws". These are NOT "works of the law".


- Fleshly Circumcision
- Animal sacrifice for sin
- Sprinkling of blood
- Not touching dead bodies
- Separation from the "unclean"
- Death

^ These examples ARE "works of the law". These are what one did to CLEANSE/PAY FOR (i.e. justify) themselves in the eyes of the Almighty AFTER they broke a law (as every law that's broken in every society in existence has a price to pay).

The problem is, these "works of the law" were ALWAYS placeholders UNTIL Messiah came to do the true work Himself. They could NEVER truly pay the price. They could never justify.


-----

Galatians' problem (after Messiah came):

Believers in Galatia - after faith in the Messiah - began...

- Fleshly Circumcision
- Animal sacrifice for sin
- Sprinkling of blood
- Not touching dead bodies
- Separation from the "unclean"

...performing these ^ "works of the law" in an attempt to JUSTIFY themselves as Jew had to do beforehand; as if Messiah hadn't come, which made the faith in the blood of Messiah of none effect to them. And if they were no longer covered by Messiah's blood, then they were still under the pentalty of the Holy law, required to perform all "works of the law" and deserved death.


------

Galatians Chapter 5:

To add further dimension, even if one obeyed a "work of the law" - like circumcision - but was evil to one another (and operated in their flesh) the "work" wouldn't count (this was the same message Paul told the Romans); it's counted as "non circumcision" and that person is still under the penalty of the Holy law and deserved death.

So he concluded that after faith in the Messiah they should live by the fruits of the Spirit not by the flesh because there is no law against those acts that could be broken...and if there's no law to be broken, there's no need for further justification through useless "works of the law" anyhow. The Holy law would be fulfilled through their love for one another.


Notice, nothing at all is said against obeying the commandments.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#29
Anyone who says it is unlawful to do something not commanded by the Bible violates his own principle. Those who argue like this think it applies to some narrow aspect of doctrine or practice. For example. there are those who say that the New Testament does not allow for musical instruments in church. But may they sit in pews or chairs without a command to do so, in church. They may have one hired preacher preach one long sermon, in church, without a command to do so.

Some of those who insist this principle applies to what is done 'in church' do not apply the commandments for church meetings that allow for interpretation of tongues or multiple prophecies, for example.
This closer to what I had in mind. In the NT women are advised not to wear expensive clothes, but depend on inner beauty.
That principle was used to say one can not wear suits in church. The writer wrote if it is not commanded in the Bible, no one can do it.
He was against celebrating birthdays, milestones in people's lives, etc.,
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#30
The line of reasoning that uncommanded things in church worship are forbidden, argued off of the passage about Nadab and Abihu, goes back at least as far as the Reformation era. John Knox preached at least one sermon in it. The focus was on various Roman Catholic worship practices. Many Presbyterian churches were non-instrumental and used psalters. I heard some of this began to change in the 1800's. One of the Campbells, one of the founders of the 'Restoration Movement' which spawned churches, many of which use the title 'Church of Christ', had Presbyterian roots, and this sort of thinking probably came over from Presbyterianism, but became applied primarily to musical instruments.
What is the passage about Nadab and Abihu? And, how it was used. An example would be great.
Thanks,
Daniel
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
#31
The context of the fruits of the indwelling Spirit of God is that we need to get some

Actually, you are incorrect. Wrong even.

Chapter 5 of Galatians is about liberty in Christ. Why do you lawkeepers have such difficulty with that?

There is no law against the Spirit....according to Paul. How you law folk manage to mess that up is beyond comprehension

Let go of your law hugging and let Christ be your salvation instead

The entire book of Galatians is about being no longer enslaved to the law.
II Peter 1
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,183
1,574
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Brighton, MI
#32
???????????

Where does the Holy Spirit fit in here?

John 16:13
“When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”
Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Acts 24:16
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
Romans 9:1
I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Romans 13:5
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
1 Corinthians 10:27
If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1 Timothy 1:5
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
Hebrews 13:18
Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

Does the Holy Spirit convict people of sin?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#35
What is the passage about Nadab and Abihu? And, how it was used. An example would be great.
Thanks,
Daniel
Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire that the Lord had not commanded them. Apparently, they were supposed to offer incense with sanctified fire from the temple. Some preachers make much of the fact that they were not commanded to use the fire and try to apply that to whatever thing that is not specifically commanded that they think should be forbidden in church meetings.
 
May 22, 2020
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#37
The context of the fruits of the indwelling Spirit of God is that we need to get some

Actually, you are incorrect. Wrong even.

Chapter 5 of Galatians is about liberty in Christ. Why do you lawkeepers have such difficulty with that?

There is no law against the Spirit....according to Paul. How you law folk manage to mess that up is beyond comprehension

Let go of your law hugging and let Christ be your salvation instead

The entire book of Galatians is about being no longer enslaved to the law.

Man the new age religion folks never miss an opportunity to attack.
Christ >>>>>IS<<<<<<< our salvation providing we follow the law to His satisfaction.