You can stop right there!
My responses will not just be to you, but also for others who may be interested.
The information regarding the living believers being transformed and caught up was something that was previously unknown. In 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Paul says "Behold, I show you a Mystery." The word means some that was previously unknow because it was covered and is now being revealed.
I think that the sense of human restoration, after the Fall, was there from the beginning. God did punish Adam and Eve, but he continued with His plan in creation, giving them children, some seeking God and some not. The idea that people would be raised from the dead is clearly seen in Isaiah.
Isa 26.19 But your dead will live, Lord; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.
It is also seen in Danial.
Dan 12.1 But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.
The idea of being glorified can be viewed from the image of the Tree of Life in the garden of Eden, offering Adam immortality. It also comes from the comparison God gave Abraham of his descendants with the angels in heaven. This glorified state of existence was promised to Abraham's descendants and to the nations that adopt his faith.
I believe the sense of "mystery" mentioned in 1 Cor 15 has to do with the transformation from our present state to the glorified state. We have never known such perfection, and what it will be is mysterious to us now.
OH, and do you know the day that the Father has selected, randyk? No, you don't! Therefore, the day when He appears is imminent for all believers because we don't know the day that the Father has specified. I wish that you people would stop trying to support your beliefs with these with these ridiculous ideas that you come up with. Because neither you nor I know the time that the Father has selected for the Lord to appear and gather His church, then for both you and I and everyone else "Imminent" means the same exact thing, i.e. the Lord could come at any time.
No, I don't believe "imminency" ever meant to convey the idea that *Christ can come at any moment.* Not only is that not said, but there has been no chance that Christ could come until the time for Antichrist's defeat. Paul says that here:
2 Thes 2.3 that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Do you think Jesus was saying that his Kingdom could come even before the Cross? Absurd! And yet, Jesus used the same language before the cross when he proclaimed the Gospel of the *soon-coming* Kingdom of God. He said that even at that time, before the cross, the Kingdom was "near."
Wrong again! Imminency means that the event is Looming, on the horizon, about to take place, in the workings, impending, approaching, brewing, in the cards, etc., etc. Jesus gave us an example of His imminent appearing in the following scripture:
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come. But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. For this reason, you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour you do not expect."
Believers Christ, like the good man of the house who doesn't know at what time the thief will come to break in, continue to watch and to be ready because we don't know at what time the Lord is going to appear to gather His church.
I agree that we were not given dates to live by, since God controls the times and seasons Himself. He is Lord over time. We dare not presume we can do this or that, because it is God who actually controls what anybody does in his life.
This has nothing to do with Christ's supposed ability to come back at any time. Not knowing when he will come has nothing to do with when he can come. We know from Scriptures that he will come on the last day of the age, to set up his Kingdom. And yet, not knowing this date does *not* mean that he can come today.
The fact is, we could die on any day. And each day we can opt to do what pleases God or not, to do what is valuable to God or not. And so, every day counts no matter how far off Christ's return is. Knowing that he has already provided for our salvation, and is soon to bring judgment on its behalf, we should be operating with that in mind, regardless of when he will return.
First of all, the 144,000 are from 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. They are not the church. And second, there is no judgment mentioned regarding the 144,000. The church will not, I repeat, will not be on the earth during the tribulation period.
The 144,000 are Christians. As such, they are the Church on earth!
Rev 14.1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
And you think the Beast persecutes non-Christians?
Rev 13.7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world... This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You treat God's coming wrath as though casual, of none effect. Yet, Jesus said that it would be a time of great tribulation unequaled from the beginning, till now and never to be equaled again. And that if that time of God's wrath was allowed to go on any longer than the prophesied time, no one would be left alive on the earth.
That quote was directed, by Jesus, at Jewish believers. The great tribulation is for Jewish unbelievers that believers would also be caught up in. They were not the objects of God's wrath, but as members of the Jewish People, believers would also suffer the consequences of Roman desolation.
There is nothing "casual" about this. In WW2 a lot of innocent people suffered and died, including good Christians. This was not always Christian persecution--sometimes it was just the consequence of being in the same world with irresponsible, sinful people. How many people, for example, have been afflicted by COVID, and yet were innocent Christians simply exposed to the virus by irresponsible people? It happens, brother!
However, the fact is that believers within the church have been, like Abraham, credited with the righteousness and have been reconciled to God. Jesus took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve, satisfying it completely. This stems from not understanding the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. However, you and others continue to claim that the church is destined for the same punishment. You plainly do not have enough study regarding these matters and should not be making these claims.
I have never claimed that the common experience of conditions of judgment between unbelievers and believers meant that believers were the object of God's punishment! Two cases:
1) Ungodly unbelievers persecute Christians because they hate the Christian testimony. This is Christian persecution.
2) Ungodly unbelievers provoke God by their immorality, injustice, and lack of compassion, and God pours out His curses upon their society. The godly believers, in the minority in that society, suffer the effects of criminality, injustice, and a lack of compassion that exists in that society. And they also experience the disasters that God allows to fall upon that society, including drought, storms, and disease.
