50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[OldSage]

The order of events is:

1) End of the Jewish Tribulation that started in the first century

Then Jesus refers to the sun and moon, as per Joel.
Then the sign of Jesus in heaven.
Then a period of mourning.

This whole period we have no real idea of the length of, and rightly so, as the date of Jesus' return is unknown.

So going back to Joel.

12 Yet even now, says the Lord,
return to me with all your heart,
with fasting, with weeping, and with mourning;
13 rend your hearts and not your clothing.
Return to the Lord, your God,
for he is gracious and merciful,
slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love,
and relents from punishing.
14 Who knows whether he will not turn and relent,
and leave a blessing behind him,
a grain offering and a drink offering
for the Lord, your God?


No-one has any idea of how long we need to mourn, collectively as Jews, to apologize and make good with God.
Could be 50 years, could be 500. I have no idea.

 

[OldSage]

31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. 32 Then

everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.
3 [a] For then, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat, and I will enter into judgment with them there, on account of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations. They have divided my land, 3 and cast lots for my people, and traded boys for prostitutes, and sold girls for wine, and drunk it down.


4 What are you to me, O Tyre and Sidon, and all the regions of Philistia? Are you paying me back for something? If you are paying me back, I will turn your deeds back upon your own heads swiftly and speedily. 5 For you have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried my rich treasures into your temples.[b] 6 You have sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, removing them far from their own border. 7 But now I will rouse them to leave the places to which you have sold them, and I will turn your deeds back upon your own heads. 8 I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, to a nation far away; for the Lord has spoken.
9 Proclaim this among the nations:
Prepare war,[c]
stir up the warriors.
Let all the soldiers draw near,
let them come up.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords,
and your pruning hooks into spears;
let the weakling say, “I am a warrior.”

11 Come quickly,[d]
all you nations all around,
gather yourselves there.
Bring down your warriors, O Lord.
12 Let the nations rouse themselves,
and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat;
for there I will sit to judge
all the neighboring nations.

13 Put in the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Go in, tread,
for the wine press is full.
The vats overflow,
for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes,
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon are darkened,
and the stars withdraw their shining.

16 The Lord roars from Zion,
and utters his voice from Jerusalem,
and the heavens and the earth shake.
But the Lord is a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Israel.

17 So you shall know that I, the Lord your God,
dwell in Zion, my holy mountain.
And Jerusalem shall be holy,
and strangers shall never again pass through it.

18 In that day
the mountains shall drip sweet wine,
the hills shall flow with milk,
and all the stream beds of Judah
shall flow with water;
a fountain shall come forth from the house of the Lord
and water the Wadi Shittim.

19 Egypt shall become a desolation
and Edom a desolate wilderness,
because of the violence done to the people of Judah,
in whose land they have shed innocent blood.
20 But Judah shall be inhabited forever,
and Jerusalem to all generations.
21 I will avenge their blood, and I will not clear the guilty,[e]
for the Lord dwells in Zion.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And, this is based on how Jesus defines "Great Tribulation" - when it starts and when it ends.

Are you perhaps conflating the phrases "great distress in the land [and wrath upon this people]" (Lk21:23,20) with "great tribulation" (Matt24:15,21)? The former being the events surrounding 70ad; the latter being within the far-future trib yrs (namely, the second half of the future 7-yr period, which 7-yr period is "aka" the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period that Rev1:1 [/4:1 / 1:19c] speaks of, with regard to the "future" aspects of the book of Rev [in contrast to "the things WHICH ARE" aspects]... So the "great tribulation" falling within the years that are commonly called the [7-yr] tribulation period, yet future--This pertains to the SEQUENCE issues in the Olivet Discourse which I've covered in past posts, so won't do so in this post)

 

[OldSage]

Are you perhaps conflating the phrases "great distress in the land [and wrath upon this people]" (Lk21:23,20) with "great tribulation" (Matt24:15,21)? The former being the events surrounding 70ad; the latter being within the far-future trib yrs (namely, the second half of the future 7-yr period, which 7-yr period is "aka" the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period that Rev1:1 [/4:1 / 1:19c] speaks of, with regard to the "future" aspects of the book of Rev [in contrast to "the things WHICH ARE" aspects]... So the "great tribulation" falling within the years that are commonly called the [7-yr] tribulation period, yet future--This pertains to the SEQUENCE issues in the Olivet Discourse which I've covered in past posts, so won't do so in this post)

This is not what Matthew was talking about.
You probably think 'flight' here means El Al.
it's not funny though, it's just wrong in every sense.

20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath.

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 24:31 does...

No
Angels gather....not Jesus
From heaven.....not earth.

In no way is the coming on white horses the rapture

....according to the bible

 

[Absolutely]

I had read it, but I didn't fully understand where you were coming from? I still don't--don't really know you yet. I don't know whether you're into "soul sleep" or something else? I just gave you my rudimentary view, that the glorification event happens *at the Coming of Christ on the Last Day.*

If you ask where the departed saints are *now,* I would have to say they are awake presently with Christ in heaven, in the form of bodiless spirits. They have not yet been glorified. When the Scriptures say they are "asleep," it means their bodies appear to be sleeping when they die, because they are in a state of physical unconsciousness.



I don't believe Christ *continues in the same direction. We are called upwards to heaven for the express purpose of meeting Christ. We do not continue beyond there, because when we meet Christ it is for the express purpose of receiving our glorified bodies.

In fact, this is the precise moment at which Christ returns, because we are told that we are caught up to him just as he begins his descent. The whole doctrine of his coming springs from Dan 7, where the Son of Man is portrayed as coming with the clouds of heaven. That is, he is *descending from heaven.*

And so, it is at this precise moment that we are caught up to him, if we are still living. It will be just as he prepares to make his descent. Those already with Christ--the departed--will at the same moment of time receive their own glorified bodies, and participate together with us in his descent from heaven. It will constitute a revelation of Christ's Kingdom on earth, regardless of what this may look like. Our rule will be established, together with Christ, upon the earth. Where we will rule from I don't claim to know.



Yes, Jesus comes both with his angels and with his saints when he comes to Armageddon, to destroy the army of Antichrist. This will be a *postrib coming,* because that is exactly how it is portrayed in Dan 7. And it is from Dan 7 that the doctrine of the Rapture of the Church originates. It began as a promise to Israel. And then that promise was extended to the Church. And it is all fulfilled in the pattern of Christ, who first went to the cross, suffered tribulation, and then was raised from the dead. And then he ascended into heaven to receive his glorified body. Finally, he will return from heaven to establish his Kingdom on the earth.

How could you POSSIBLY OMIT what the rapture is.

It is the gathering of the bride by the groom.

By doing so, the dots can not be properly connected.

 

[Absolutely]

I had read it, but I didn't fully understand where you were coming from? I still don't--don't really know you yet. I don't know whether you're into "soul sleep" or something else? I just gave you my rudimentary view, that the glorification event happens *at the Coming of Christ on the Last Day.*

If you ask where the departed saints are *now,* I would have to say they are awake presently with Christ in heaven, in the form of bodiless spirits. They have not yet been glorified. When the Scriptures say they are "asleep," it means their bodies appear to be sleeping when they die, because they are in a state of physical unconsciousness.



I don't believe Christ *continues in the same direction. We are called upwards to heaven for the express purpose of meeting Christ. We do not continue beyond there, because when we meet Christ it is for the express purpose of receiving our glorified bodies.

In fact, this is the precise moment at which Christ returns, because we are told that we are caught up to him just as he begins his descent. The whole doctrine of his coming springs from Dan 7, where the Son of Man is portrayed as coming with the clouds of heaven. That is, he is *descending from heaven.*

And so, it is at this precise moment that we are caught up to him, if we are still living. It will be just as he prepares to make his descent. Those already with Christ--the departed--will at the same moment of time receive their own glorified bodies, and participate together with us in his descent from heaven. It will constitute a revelation of Christ's Kingdom on earth, regardless of what this may look like. Our rule will be established, together with Christ, upon the earth. Where we will rule from I don't claim to know.



Yes, Jesus comes both with his angels and with his saints when he comes to Armageddon, to destroy the army of Antichrist. This will be a *postrib coming,* because that is exactly how it is portrayed in Dan 7. And it is from Dan 7 that the doctrine of the Rapture of the Church originates. It began as a promise to Israel. And then that promise was extended to the Church. And it is all fulfilled in the pattern of Christ, who first went to the cross, suffered tribulation, and then was raised from the dead. And then he ascended into heaven to receive his glorified body. Finally, he will return from heaven to establish his Kingdom on the earth.

"""And so, it is at this precise moment that we are caught up to him, if we are still living. It will be just as he prepares to make his descent. Those already with Christ--the departed--will at the same moment of time receive their own glorified bodies, and participate together with us in his descent from heaven"""


Show me anywhere in the bible this is found. (The 2 nd coming on billions of white horses , originating in heaven,with mounted saints, in c0njunction with rev 14 gathering by Jesus sitting on a cloud, and reconcile how the bible is wrong in acts 1 "like manner".)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

This is not what Matthew was talking about.
You probably think 'flight' here means El Al.
it's not funny though, it's just wrong in every sense.

20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath.

Not sure you've understood what my point was there (or my past posts on this).

I'm saying that there are TWO distinct "SEE-then-FLEEs"...

1) ONE "SEE-then-FLEE" in the events surrounding 70ad, in Luke 21:23,20 (vv.12-24a/b), which is "BEFORE ALL THESE" beginning of birth pangs just described in vv. 8-11 (and parallel / equivalent to Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8); this one is equivalent to the wording in Matthew 22:7... in Luke 19:41-44... in Luke 21:5-6 / Mk13:1-2... Luke 21:24a ("led away captive into all the nations")... etc (the 70ad events);

2) the OTHER "SEE-then-FLEE" in the "far-future" time-period, FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs (that Matt24:4-8 STARTS OUT with, here); what *this* time period covers, ultimately leads up to their being gathered "one by one, o ye children of Israel... to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM" (Matt24:29-31 = Isa27:9,12-13)--the exact OPPOSITE outcome / end. Not to mention how Daniel [OT saint] was told he would "[rest (in death)] and STAND IN THY LOT [i.e. be resurrected ('to stand again' (on the earth)] at the END of the DAYS [at the END of the "days" referred to IN THAT CONTEXT--see vv.6-7,11,1-4...]"... and THAT did NOT take place in the "70ad events," see. [recall "AOD [singular/singular]" Jesus spoke of, is Dan12:11]

 

[Runningman]

None of the verses that those who hold a pre-tribulational rapture theology say Jesus returns before the great tribulation or the rapture happens before the great tribulation.

This singular point is what causes so much confusion, debate, and rejection of the pre-trib.

Post-trib is easy to explain and straightforward enough that it doesn't take long to teach using a few verses. Of course, if a deeper study of the tribulation, anti-Christ, return of Christ, resurrection, and rapture are necessary then post-trib can satisfactorily go the distance comfortably and confidently using scripture.

 

[Absolutely]

^ The "5th Seal" martyrs are those killed IN / DURING / WITHIN the trib years (the first four SEALS parallel "the beginning of birth PANGS" early in the Trib... so SEAL #5 being fairly equivalent to Matt24:9 "[and they] shall KILL YOU...").

EVERYTHING in Matt24:4-8 (and following on, in the text--2 chpts'-worth) is what takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture" event.

NOTHING in Matt24-25 (or ANYWHERE ELSE in His Olivet Discourse) speaks of "our Rapture" event.




[Rev5:9 has the 24 elders saying, "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood OUT-OF EVERY..."... BEFORE the FIRST SEAL is opened; consistent with all other texts on this Subject...]

...so "watch and be ready" told to those on the earth "BEFORE THE FLOOD/TRIB needs to be omitted?

One taken/ left...watch and be ready....BEFORE THE FLOOD.
UH...REREAD PLEASE

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

P.S. (to my post) I believe the Matt24 "SEE-then-FLEE" corresponds with Rev12:14,6 (MID-trib--yet future--when 1260 days are yet remaining until His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

...so "watch and be ready" told to those on the earth "BEFORE THE FLOOD/TRIB needs to be omitted?

One taken/ left...watch and be ready....BEFORE THE FLOOD.
UH...REREAD PLEASE

Luke 17:27,29 "and destroyed [G622] them ALL"... (said in each of these 2 verses)...

That ^ does NOT occur following "our Rapture" event (our Rapture event is not this "context").

 

[Absolutely]

And alls I'm pointing out is: that the word "armIES [plural]" is never used (in the PLURAL) when speaking of the "angels" ALONE... so obviously this "the armIES [plural] who were IN the Heaven" *includes* already-glorified/-perfected humans/saints... following Him out of Heaven. I think you and I are in agreement on this point.





I actually disagree with your take on the "144,000 firstfruit" (in my view, the SECOND mention of "firstfruit" in Lev23, namely in v.17 "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [<--that's not "us/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"]), in that, I do not believe they (the 144,000) are shown to be "in Heaven"...

...and I believe the TARES will be "gathered OUT" Matt13:40-41 (at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot) and [said to the angels] "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (in that time-slot's context)... which is in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE to that of our Rapture event. So, no. I believe the "My barn" is the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age [like how Matt24:29-31 parallels Isa27:9,12-13 "ye shall be gathered one by one, o ye children of Israel, to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM"] (the "My barn" not being "[UP IN] Heaven")... yet the "TARES" being gathered/collected "OUT / OUT OF [ek]" (and all things that offend), BY CONTRAST, see...

"""In that, I do not believe they (the 144,000) are shown to be "in Heaven"..."""

Have you read the first part of rev 14?I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

BEFORE THE THRONE
redeemed from men
Redeemed from the earth
Firstfruits to God.

What part of that are you not believing?

 

[Absolutely]

Luke 17:27,29 "and destroyed [G622] them ALL"... (said in each of these 2 verses)...

That ^ does NOT occur following "our Rapture" event (our Rapture event is not this "context").

really?
Destroyed them all before the flood?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

None of the verses that those who hold a pre-tribulational rapture theology say Jesus returns before the great tribulation or the rapture happens before the great tribulation.

I would invite you to ponder long and hard about what the text in 2Th2:2 is saying is the content of the "false claim" and what it is conveying ("that the day of the Lord IS ALREADY HERE / IS ALREADY PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]"), and how Scripture itself describes that particular time period (not the "made up" versions of it), before you then go on to examine Paul's answer/response/explanation (what he is BRINGING to the FORE to address such an issue) regarding this particular "false claim"... I find that not grasping what v.2's "false claim" actually consists of and is conveying, is what throws many ppl off...

 

[Absolutely]

Luke 17:27,29 "and destroyed [G622] them ALL"... (said in each of these 2 verses)...

That ^ does NOT occur following "our Rapture" event (our Rapture event is not this "context").

Ahem....
Please do reread it. I can not believe you to be one to reframe dynamics.
You are proven wrong in CONTEXT.;

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

CLEARLY DELIVERANCE PRIOR TO THE TRIB
NOAH
LOT.

BOTH USED SIDE BY SIDE.
REREAD IT

 

[OldSage]

Not sure you've understood what my point was there (or my past posts on this).

I'm saying that there are TWO distinct "SEE-then-FLEEs"...

1) ONE "SEE-then-FLEE" in the events surrounding 70ad, in Luke 21:23,20 (vv.12-24a/b), which is "BEFORE ALL THESE" beginning of birth pangs just described in vv. 8-11 (and parallel / equivalent to Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8); this one is equivalent to the wording in Matthew 22:7... in Luke 19:41-44... in Luke 21:5-6 / Mk13:1-2... Luke 21:24a ("led away captive into all the nations")... etc (the 70ad events);

2) the OTHER "SEE-then-FLEE" in the "far-future" time-period, FOLLOWING the beginning of birth pangs (that Matt24:4-8 STARTS OUT with, here); what *this* time period covers, ultimately leads up to their being gathered "one by one, o ye children of Israel... to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM" (Matt24:29-31 = Isa27:9,12-13)--the exact OPPOSITE outcome / end. Not to mention how Daniel [OT saint] was told he would "[rest (in death)] and STAND IN THY LOT [i.e. be resurrected ('to stand again' (on the earth)] at the END of the DAYS [at the END of the "days" referred to IN THAT CONTEXT--see vv.6-7,11,1-4...]"... and THAT did NOT take place in the "70ad events," see. [recall "AOD [singular/singular]" Jesus spoke of, is Dan12:11]

I totally understand what you have done. I do actually read your posts and sometimes even reply.
I'll explain to you what you have proposed:

You are suggesting that what Jesus said in Matthew 24, contrary to what he explains in Luke 21,
is a different message altogether and pertains not to first century events, but to a different Tribulation
altogether. One you define as a 7 year Tribulation which has not yet occurred, which
you say is "The Great Tribulation".

But Jesus refers to the land of Judea, which simply doesn't exist anymore
and hasn't existed for around 1900 years. He is therefore clearly talking about first Century events here.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What led you to thinking that resurrection is in heaven? I've already noted that the verses about "homes" in heaven refer to the fact that the source for resurrection comes from heaven. You still have no verses that say that Jesus brings resurrected believers with Him.

Of course I do. It was already posted:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him .

Nope. Neither verse says anyone receives their resurrection body IN heaven.

Read it again:

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1. the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God
2. the dead in Christ shall rise first

The Lord will leave heaven and the dead will rise. That's before anyone is at the clouds so the only possible place for them to resurrect is in heaven before they follow the Lord t the clouds.

No it's NOT. You need to read it again. Jesus brings the dead with Him to meet the living believers in the air. That's when both the dead and living believers get their imperishable bodies.

That along with the fact that the new body is right there in heaven proves where the dead resurrect.

Huh? What verse says this?

 

[Absolutely]

31 The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord comes. 32 Then

everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.
3 [a] For then, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat, and I will enter into judgment with them there, on account of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations. They have divided my land, 3 and cast lots for my people, and traded boys for prostitutes, and sold girls for wine, and drunk it down.


4 What are you to me, O Tyre and Sidon, and all the regions of Philistia? Are you paying me back for something? If you are paying me back, I will turn your deeds back upon your own heads swiftly and speedily. 5 For you have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried my rich treasures into your temples.[b] 6 You have sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks, removing them far from their own border. 7 But now I will rouse them to leave the places to which you have sold them, and I will turn your deeds back upon your own heads. 8 I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the people of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, to a nation far away; for the Lord has spoken.
9 Proclaim this among the nations:
Prepare war,[c]
stir up the warriors.
Let all the soldiers draw near,
let them come up.
10 Beat your plowshares into swords,
and your pruning hooks into spears;
let the weakling say, “I am a warrior.”

11 Come quickly,[d]
all you nations all around,
gather yourselves there.
Bring down your warriors, O Lord.
12 Let the nations rouse themselves,
and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat;
for there I will sit to judge
all the neighboring nations.

13 Put in the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Go in, tread,
for the wine press is full.
The vats overflow,
for their wickedness is great.

14 Multitudes, multitudes,
in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon are darkened,
and the stars withdraw their shining.

16 The Lord roars from Zion,
and utters his voice from Jerusalem,
and the heavens and the earth shake.
But the Lord is a refuge for his people,
a stronghold for the people of Israel.

17 So you shall know that I, the Lord your God,
dwell in Zion, my holy mountain.
And Jerusalem shall be holy,
and strangers shall never again pass through it.

18 In that day
the mountains shall drip sweet wine,
the hills shall flow with milk,
and all the stream beds of Judah
shall flow with water;
a fountain shall come forth from the house of the Lord
and water the Wadi Shittim.

19 Egypt shall become a desolation
and Edom a desolate wilderness,
because of the violence done to the people of Judah,
in whose land they have shed innocent blood.
20 But Judah shall be inhabited forever,
and Jerusalem to all generations.
21 I will avenge their blood, and I will not clear the guilty,[e]
for the Lord dwells in Zion.

13 Put in the sickle,
for the harvest is ripe.
Go in, tread,
for the wine press is full.
The vats overflow,
for their wickedness is great

Sickle used in relation to grapes

Rev 14
Grape harvest.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Did you examine ALL of the 'Trumpet' column verses - from top to bottom?

As I said, your chart is hardly user friendly. How about just putting together the pertinent verses to prove your point?

The Second Coming of Christ is not aligned with the end of the Trib; rather, the arrival of the Two Witnesses "on the scene" is aligned with the end of the Trib.

You haven't shown that. And Rev 20 refutes it.

I believe Jesus returns "very shortly after" the Two Witnesses are raised up after being killed.

Right. That is correct. Do you know how long they will preach on earth? 42 months. How long is that? 3.5 years. When do they begin? Right at the end of the first half of the Trib.

The 7th seal judgment is described after the 2 Witnesses arrive. (ch 11). And 11:19 seems to be describing the same events as found in 16:18,21, which is the 7th bowl judgment.

So, the 2 Witnesses preach mostly during the second half of the Trib, and their death is followed by the 7th trumpet, which describes what the 7th bowl describes. So yes, the Second Coming of Christ DOES align with the end of the Trib. Clearly.

Do you see where Armageddon is on the chart?

I have the Bible. It's in 16:16. Which is just before the 7th bowl.

In Matthew 24, there is a 3.5 year span of time between the start of verse 29 and the start of verse 30. It is the Two Witnesses and the Trumpet Events.

Well, let's see.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

What is see is that right at the end of the Trib (distress) are the heavenly signs that will signal the return of Christ.

Then, in v.30 the Lord appears.

What I don't see is any kind of delay between the verses.

So, where do you get your ideas from, since Matt 24,29,30 don't support your 3.5 yr delay?