Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

HatedForNoReason · Jun 13, 2021

Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan.

Remember, Left Behind Secret Rapture and rapture are two different things.

The bottom link talks about the rapture and what is rapture.

http://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/

The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, John 17:15

We don't know the exact day, time and hour of the Real Jesus Christ 2nd Coming, but we do know the signs.

Before the Real Jesus Christ comes back: Great earthquake that shakes Earth and Heaven, sun shall be turned into darkness, moon into blood, stars shall withdraw their shining, heaven rolled like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of their places, great hail out of heaven pelting on some of Satan's children on earth.

Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21

http://repent5610.blogspot.com/2012/12/there-is-no-secret-rapture.html

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org

The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)

Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 13, 2021

Welcome to CC. = )

Matthew 24:29-31 (at the "GREAT trumpet") corresponds with same in Isaiah 27:12-13, and no one in that passage is experiencing the "SNATCH [G726 - harpazo / rapture / caught UP]" thing... rather, those folks (spoken of in the Isa27:12-13 context, parallel to Matt24:29-31) will be "gathered" by ANGELS "He shall SEND" to do so, and they will be gathered "ONE by ONE" (not "AS ONE," as *we* will be) to worship the Lord in the holy mount, AT JERUSALEM (that is, to an EARTHLY location, not "TO the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR"). In every way distinct to that of the event spoken of in 1Th4:17 regarding "the Church which is His body" ("us"), see.

Nice to meet you. Hope to see you around the boards! = )

2ndTimothyGroup · Jun 13, 2021

Are there really people who are afraid?

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 13, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

I was going to cover that aspect too, but in the end chose to forego it, in favor of being more brief than I would have been. = D

I will say this though:

"...by means of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, in order that WHETHER WE MAY WATCH [G1127], or WHETHER WE MAY SLEEP [G2518] [same two Grk words as are in v.6 of THIS SAME CONTEXT (different "sleep" word from the prev chpt!

)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him. Wherefore COMFORT yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do." - 1Th5:9b-11

John146 · Jun 13, 2021

HatedForNoReason said:

Have you ever thought that Jesus was referring to a Jewish rapture and no th3 body of Christ? These passages are all concerning Israel.

Nehemiah6 · Jun 13, 2021

HatedForNoReason said:

You've made a tremendous start for a newbie. But you are dead wrong!

No, Jesus comes FOR His Church at the Rapture and then comes WITH His Church after the Tribulation. If that were not so, He could not come with His saints at His Second Coming.

So it looks like the fear-mongerer is you.

TheLearner · Jun 13, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

G726 from the context is a military term those days for a Roman Soldier making you carry their stuff a mile. Also, is used in literature outside the Bible for someone being forced into military service. One taken away while others are left behind. In Matthew 24 two questions were asked and answered. One relates to the Abomination of Desolations.

TheLearner · Jun 13, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

When believers die, they go to heaven. Thus no need for a rapture to answer your assertion.

Runningman · Jun 13, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

Matthew 24:31 describes the same "gathering" Paul applies to the church in 2 Thessalonians 2:1, meaning that the post-tribulational gathering of the elect that Jesus describes has a one-to-one correlation used by Paul's application to the church.

The gathering of the elect is a descriptor of the rapture (harpazo) given the context of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

G1996. episunagó
Strong's Concordance

episunagó: to gather together
Original Word: ἐπισυνάγω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: episunagó
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ee-soon-ag'-o)
Definition: to gather together
Usage: I collect, gather together, assemble.

Nehemiah6 · Jun 13, 2021

TheLearner said:

That is only half the process. Those who die will be resurrected in glorious immortal bodies AT THE SAME TIME that those who are alive will be transformed and raptured. But all this must happen BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ (when He comes with His saints).

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 13, 2021

^ Right.

That's just what I put over in a different thread:

Post #3747 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4580692

____________

Also in Post #2559 - https://christianchat.com/threads/5...ure-by-dr-john-f-walvoord.198357/post-4567884

OrphanedRepublican · Jun 13, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

I think you're right. It says when he comes, he brings his reward with him. People think that he's bringing a reward for "us." Not so, I believe the "his reward" is "us" as we are his reward and he is our reward.

In other words, he comes bringing his saints with him.

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 13, 2021

^ Right.

That's what I put in a post some time back:

Isaiah 40:10 - "Behold, the Lord GOD comes with might, and His arm establishes His rule. His reward is with Him, and His recompense [/His work] accompanies Him."

Isaiah 62:11 - "Behold, the LORD has proclaimed to the ends of the earth, “Say to Daughter Zion: See, your Savior comes! Look, His reward is with Him, and His recompense [/His work] goes before [H6440 - faces] Him.”

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 13, 2021

Runningman said:

You are simply conflating two *distinct* harvests...

[quoting from old post... bottom of a Post #607 back on Jan2]

"[...] recall my study on how I believe "the 144,000" are "FIRSTFRUIT" of the "WHEAT" harvest, per the SECOND mention of "firstfruit" in Lev23, that is, in v.17, parallel Rev14:4 language... and where Lev23:17 says, "TWO loaves" and "baken WITH LEAVEN" [There are distinct "harvests"--That is, there are more than one "harvest" in Scripture and in nature--the WHEAT harvest is threshed by means of a "tribulum" (harvesting implement), whereas the earlier harvest by means of "tossing up into the AIR [and 'blowing' away the chaff]" "

[end quoting from old post]

____________

The word for "gather" in Matthew 13:30 (where the ANGELS are told to "GATHER/COLLECT ye FIRST the TARES" [versus the "GATHER [G4863 - sunago] WHEAT into My barn"]) is in the CONTEXT of events surrounding His Second Coming to the earth Rev19 FOR the earthly MK age (not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]")... that word "gather [G4863]" (re: the WHEAT harvest--not US/the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY) is a PART OF the word *you* are presenting here, "epi - sunago [G1996]"... so then the question becomes "CONTEXT" (which "harvest" is being gathered, and "when" and "in what manner"?... which I've explained further in other old posts)

TheDivineWatermark · Jun 13, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

IOW, *WE / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (ALL those having come to faith "in this present age [singular]") are NOT the "WHEAT" harvest (either), see.

[same "gather [G4863]" word is in this Matt13:30 verse (not about US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY), that is in the "gather [G1996 (G1909 + G4863)]" word you are pointing out--The issue then is "CONTEXT"... i.e. which "harvest" is being spoken of?]

TheDivineWatermark said:

Runningman · Jun 13, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

That's great and all, but I actually disagree with your explanation. The context of the gathering in 2 Thessalonians 2 indicates the gathering does not occur until the falling away of the church (apostasy) first and the man of sin revealed. The gathering does not occur until Jesus returns. Jesus returns to destroy the man of sin which would mean the church is not gathered until after the tribulation when Jesus shows back up.

Matthew 24:31 and 2 Thessalonians 2 fit perfectly together in both definition and context which is why there is a one-to-one correlation. The elect gathered, that Jesus references n Matthew 24, are the church Paul describes in 2 Thessalonians 2.

The OP of this thread is absolutely accurate.

oyster67 · Jun 13, 2021

HatedForNoReason said:

Yes, and Jesus brings the raptured saints down with Him. They have gotten their clean white linen and participated in the Marriage Supper in Heaven prior to Jesus' Second Coming.

1 Thessalonians
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelations
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Nehemiah6 · Jun 13, 2021

Runningman said:

Well in that case you would have to have a very good explanation for how the Church comes from Heaven with Christ at His Second Coming, when they are still on earth at that time. Will you propose a bizarre scenario, since both the Tribulation and Great Tribulation precede the Second Coming of Christ? Or will you simply admit that the OP is totally mistaken?

oyster67 · Jun 13, 2021

2ndTimothyGroup said:

I'm pretty excited about the prospect of imminent Rapture myself. The Bible says to comfort ourselves with the prospect of escaping the 7 years of Tribulation on Earth...

oyster67 said:

ewq1938 · Jun 13, 2021

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.

A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.

Let's back up slightly to establish context:

Paul is clear the rapture happens after the resurrection and the resurrection happens after the second coming. There is no pre-trib rapture in scripture.

It never fails to amaze me that a thread about the Rapture does not include the actual verses that speak of the Rapture and when it happens.

Rapture is an English word that comes from a Greek word which is Harpazo. Here is the Harpazo/Rapture and when it happens:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (Harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30

So, the second coming happens and then the resurrection and then the rapture, all after the trib has ended.

A rapture before the tribulation is impossible according to Mat 24:29-30, and a rapture before the second coming is impossible according to 1Th 4:13-17.

So, the proper order of events according to scripture including Mat_24:29:

1. the great tribulation ends. (Mat_24:29)
2. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16, Mat_24:30)
3. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
4. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)

Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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