50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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Yes! 
... and Paul had said he would be awarded/given a "stephanos/crown" IN THAT DAY (and not to him only); which does not refer to the day he *died* (and was then 'present with the Lord,' when absent from the body 2Cor5:6-10)... no.
Plus, in Rev5:9 they say, "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." ("US"!) And they are wearing "crowns" (where did those come from??) and are sitting on "thrones" (why is this?) and are clothed in the same thing ('in white raiment/garments [G2440]') that Rev3:5 had promised to ppl, in the "things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3)... [where it shows the 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" as being distinct from "the things WHICH ARE" which things are NOT stated "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"]
... and Paul had said he would be awarded/given a "stephanos/crown" IN THAT DAY (and not to him only); which does not refer to the day he *died* (and was then 'present with the Lord,' when absent from the body 2Cor5:6-10)... no.
Plus, in Rev5:9 they say, "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." ("US"!) And they are wearing "crowns" (where did those come from??) and are sitting on "thrones" (why is this?) and are clothed in the same thing ('in white raiment/garments [G2440]') that Rev3:5 had promised to ppl, in the "things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3)...
[where it shows the 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" as being distinct from "the things WHICH ARE" which things are NOT stated "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"]-
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The RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH and the Gathering of the Remnant of ISRAEL, are a different times. You are surely CONFESSED.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 (HCSB)
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him: We ask you, brothers,
THAT IS JUST BEFORE HIS FEET TOUCH DOWN ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, and what is being GATHERED is ISRAEL.
We are gone about 7 years before that.
QUOTE:
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other [Matt. 24:31].
The elect spoken of in this verse is still the nation Israel. The prophets in the Old Testament foretold of a miracle that would bring the Jews back into their land. (This is not the church, which is going to be caught up out of this world to meet the Lord in the air, NOT GATHERED. Angels are not connected with the Rapture.) The Lord will come in person to receive the church with the sound of a trumpet, and His voice will be like that of an archangel. He will not need any help to gather His church together. He died for the church, and He will bring it together. When He says that the "angels... shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other," we can be sure that He is talking about the nation Israel -- ministering angels have always been connected with Israel.
Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.
:END QUOTE.
QUOTE:
d. The Sound with Which He Will Return (24:31)
At His return the Son of Man "shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matt. 24:31). Moses anticipated the judgmental scattering of Israel into all parts of the earth because of national sin; he also foresaw the end-time ingathering of all the remaining outcasts of Israel. In Deuteronomy 30:3-5 he prophesied that national repentance would be followed by national regathering:
Exploring the Future: A Comprehensive Guide to Bible Prophecy.
:END QUOTE.
The RAPTURE happens at lest 7 years before the Mat. 24:31 happens. We are not GATHERED by the ANGELS, we are:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (HCSB)
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord.
READ THEM, AND WEEP!
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Yes!
... and Paul had said he would be awarded/given a "stephanos/crown" IN THAT DAY (and not to him only); which does not refer to the day he *died* (and was then 'present with the Lord,' when absent from the body 2Cor5:6-10)... no.
Plus, in Rev5:9 they say, "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." ("US"!) And they are wearing "crowns" (where did those come from??) and are sitting on "thrones" (why is this?) and are clothed in the same thing ('in white raiment/garments [G2440]') that Rev3:5 had promised to ppl, in the "things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3)... [where it shows the 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" as being distinct from "the things WHICH ARE" which things are NOT stated "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"]
... and Paul had said he would be awarded/given a "stephanos/crown" IN THAT DAY (and not to him only); which does not refer to the day he *died* (and was then 'present with the Lord,' when absent from the body 2Cor5:6-10)... no.
Plus, in Rev5:9 they say, "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." ("US"!) And they are wearing "crowns" (where did those come from??) and are sitting on "thrones" (why is this?) and are clothed in the same thing ('in white raiment/garments [G2440]') that Rev3:5 had promised to ppl, in the "things WHICH ARE" section (chpts 2-3)...
[where it shows the 1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" as being distinct from "the things WHICH ARE" which things are NOT stated "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"]
the 24 there represented the us, the many of all nations.
not just a few
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No, only one model fits and exists in scripture: post-trib.
The rapture is after the Great Tribulation has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)
The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.
It's that simple.
Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)
Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.
A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.
Let's back up slightly to establish context:
Paul is clear the rapture happens after the resurrection and the resurrection happens after the second coming. There is no pre-trib rapture in scripture.
It never fails to amaze me that a thread about the Rapture does not include the actual verses that speak of the Rapture and when it happens.
Rapture is an English word that comes from a Greek word which is Harpazo. Here is the Harpazo/Rapture and when it happens:
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Context is the second coming.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Context is the second coming.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (Harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.
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It certainly doesn't teach a pre-trib rapture but it is another way to depict the post-trib rapture. Christ returns and gathers virgins to himself and takes them somewhere. That's the rapture or our gathering to him. The tribulation would be happening while the slept and while the foolish went to those who sell to buy from them. That's clearly a reference to the buying and selling happening during the Great Tribulation. When the Messiah shows up, that is the end of the Great Tribulation where he takes his faithful to be with him...not to heaven of course but to be with him which is the Earth.
No assuming is needed. It is without a doubt about the second coming and it's not the only reference:
Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee .
Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief . Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee .
Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief . Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
The ac is revealed with the other horsemen at the very begining of the gt.
He is seated as God mid trib.
He comes on a white horse and "conquors " everything immediately.
The restrainer is holding them back.
At the rapture , 100% pretrib, the rstrainer is removed...ac revealed.
No way is he revealed mid trib.
He is seated as God mid trib.
He comes on a white horse and "conquors " everything immediately.
The restrainer is holding them back.
At the rapture , 100% pretrib, the rstrainer is removed...ac revealed.
No way is he revealed mid trib.