WE are judged by what we do vs. we are saved by faith alone.

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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We must accept all scripture as equal truths.

Scripture tells us to be perfect Matt. 5:48 “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect”. Yet if we say we have achieved perfection, instead of giving our will to be perfect to God, we lie. We are perfect only through the perfection of Christ, but we must give our will to Him and will to be sinless, as Christ makes us as if we were sinless.

Scripture says we are judged by our deeds 2 Corinthians 5:10 “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil”. Scripture also says we are judged by faith alone. Eph. 2:8 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast”

When Christ gives us forgiveness, we know it is not based on our deeds but on our faith. We know to have faith in Christ is to have faith in His instructions to us as well as His ability to forgive our sins. We cannot live with the sin that Christ frees us from and remain free from sin.


How do you think these scripture truths all work together to be the truth of the Lord and not opposing instructions?
it’s grace and truth together the gospel is now and has always been “ repent and receive remission of your sins through Christ “

the shortest most concise statement I’ve found is this to show light on the New Testament workings Jesus was faced with a sinner caught in adultery first he turns the others eyes to thier own sins and removes their judgement over her and when it’s just her and Jesus left the only one worthy to condemn her he tells her about remission of sins and repentance

“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭

something I feel That’s important is the context of Jesus saying “ be perfect therefore “ what he’s talking about is being merciful specifically there so rather than just quoting be perfect in a vacuum if we look at the context it helps us zero in on what he’s teaching

“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:

for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:44-48‬ ‭

What I hear is Jesus explaining that we need to become merciful like God is merciful we need to help those who are against us , bless the curses we receive forgive transgression against us like God forgave us .

we already aren’t perfect from the start Jesus is about calling us from that imperfection setting these high heavenly goals before our faith causing us to press forward into those things

we need to perfect our mercy to others so when we face the lord for all our words and deeds we have mercy waiting
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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Midwest
Even a regenerate Christian can’t fulfill the righteousness needed for eternal life by loving.
Precious friend, yes, "our love" Can NEVER equal "HIS Precious BLOOD,"
but, further we "...fulfill ALL the law in ONE WORD":
(Galatians 5 : 14; Romans 13 : 8-10 KJB!) ............... LOVE! .............. Amen?
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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That's typical Ecumenical talk. I don't buy it. :)
What’s a Christian then? I’d like to hear your definition. If your a Trinitarian Baptized person, you’re a Christian to me. That doesn’t mean I believe you’re correct on everything or perfect.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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What’s a Christian then? I’d like to hear your definition. If your a Trinitarian Baptized person, you’re a Christian to me. That doesn’t mean I believe you’re correct on everything or perfect.
A Christian is one who has been born again (from above) by God's Spirit and has received a new nature through the new birth and who consequently loves God's Word and will, who does not place man's traditions over God's Word...

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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A Christian is one who has been born again (from above) by God's Spirit and has received a new nature through the new birth and who consequently loves God's Word and will, who does not place man's traditions over God's Word...

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
So when I was an 8 year old kid that didn’t understand all the stuff you said up there but I knew who god was (Jesus), loved God, and got baptized...I wasn’t a Christian since I didn’t understand all your criteria?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So when I was an 8 year old kid that didn’t understand all the stuff you said up there but I knew who god was (Jesus), loved God, and got baptized...I wasn’t a Christian since I didn’t understand all your criteria?
You would have understood if you had received God's Spirit and you would have understood the Words of Jesus when He said...

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (Joh 3:3, 5, 7)

Paul said similarly...

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:10, 12, 13, 14)

My wife grew up Catholic and never heard the concept 'born again'. When she became born again the Scriptures were opened to her in technicolor so to speak. The same with me but I grew up under secular atheism...no water baptism or church.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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So when I was an 8 year old kid that didn’t understand all the stuff you said up there but I knew who god was (Jesus), loved God, and got baptized...I wasn’t a Christian since I didn’t understand all your criteria?
The key to saving faith is to understand that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He died for your sins, and that He gives you eternal life when you trust Him to save you from hell.

Did you do that when 8 yrs old?

If not, when did you actually place your trust in Him to save you?

If never, now is the very best time ever to do it.
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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You would have understood if you had received God's Spirit and you would have understood the Words of Jesus when He said...

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (Joh 3:3, 5, 7)

Paul said similarly...

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:10, 12, 13, 14)

My wife grew up Catholic and never heard the concept 'born again'. When she became born again the Scriptures were opened to her in technicolor so to speak. The same with me but I grew up under secular atheism...no water baptism or church.
Answer my question directly, I was that 8 year old kid described in my last post. Was I a Christian that day that I accepted God and was baptized? Did I receive the Holy Spirit?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The key to saving faith is to understand that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He died for your sins, and that He gives you eternal life when you trust Him to save you from hell.
That's exactly right and it is interesting how Jesus tied in the lifting of the serpent in the wilderness with his discourse to Nicodemus on the necessity of being born again.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Answer my question directly, I was that 8 year old kid described in my last post. Was I a Christian that day that I accepted God and was baptized? Did I receive the Holy Spirit?
Only you can answer that.
But my suspicion would be 'no' as you would not have ended up in Rome if you had been.
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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Only you can answer that.
But my suspicion would be 'no' as you would not have ended up in Rome if you had been.
Oh how that’s tables have turned. You are now saying a child is not saved that seeks god and is baptized. You even take it a step further, not only has god not accepted that child, that child will be required to go study the Bible, agree to everything you’re saying, and only then will he be saved. That is the very definition of works righteousness. It is no longer a free gift to receive it if the only way to be a Christian is through your way. I’m glad I’m not part of your church.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Oh how that’s tables have turned. You are now saying a child is not saved that seeks god and is baptized. You even take it a step further, not only has god not accepted that child, that child will be required to go study the Bible, agree to everything you’re saying, and only then will he be saved. That is the very definition of works righteousness. It is no longer a free gift to receive it if the only way to be a Christian is through your way. I’m glad I’m not part of your church.
You got all that out of me saying “but my suspicion would be ‘no’”?
Have a nice life.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What’s a Christian then? I’d like to hear your definition. If your a Trinitarian Baptized person, you’re a Christian to me. That doesn’t mean I believe you’re correct on everything or perfect.
So how many ways is there to heaven.. it’s important as all these groups get to god different ways
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Answer my question directly, I was that 8 year old kid described in my last post. Was I a Christian that day that I accepted God and was baptized? Did I receive the Holy Spirit?
How did you accept Jesus and what did you accept?
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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You got all that out of me saying “but my suspicion would be ‘no’”?
Have a nice life.
You know exactly what you said. You said that child would not be a Christian until he put in the work to understand everything you said was necessary. That is salvation by works.


That is contrary to every theological position in Christianity about the salvation of a new believer. My Church nor any Protestant Church I was ever a member of would agree with you. They would know that child has been saved.
 

GodMyFortress

Active member
May 9, 2021
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How did you accept Jesus and what did you accept?
I felt love for God, believed God is the God of the Trinity, and sought out my Southern Baptist pastor. I declared that Jesus was my lord and savior and asked him for his grace to save me. Then I was baptized.

You gonna tell me God didn’t love me in that moment and make me a child of God? If not I would love to know what theory of justification you’re adhering to.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I felt love for God, believed God is the God of the Trinity, and sought out my Southern Baptist pastor. I declared that Jesus was my lord and savior and asked him for his grace to save me. Then I was baptized.

You gonna tell me God didn’t love me in that moment and make me a child of God? If not I would love to know what theory of justification you’re adhering to.
So why did you get baptized?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I was 8 years old, my pastor told me it’s what God wants Christians to do as a public profession of our faith.
So you did not do it to get saved if I read you right?

what did christ give you when you asked?

I am just asking because many claim they recieve Christ, yet we come to learn they never really did