50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[Truth7t7]

different topic

It's not a different topic when you claim God has a seal for Jews, and a different seal for the Church, pushing the false teaching in Zionism's (Dual Covenant Theology)

Does your Millennial Kingdom have Jews sacrificing animals in a Ezekiel Millennial Temple, Instructed and Blessed by God toooo?

 

[FreeGrace2]

As I said, all this is human reasoning not understanding the scriptures.

What's not to understand from Acts 24:15? There will be A resurrection of the saved and A resurrection of the unsaved.

So, how many is that?

Did Jesus resurrect from the dead? Yes, we all know He did. Therefore HIS resurrection must fit in ONE or the OTHER shown in Rev. 20. I will let you choose which one.

It's you who isn't understanding. The Bible describes Jesus' resurrection as "the firstfruits". Which is obviously connected with "those who belong to Him" per 1 Cor 15:23.

iow, Jesus is the FIRST to receive a resurrection body. Then those who belong to Him will get theirs.

 

[Truth7t7]

What's not to understand from Acts 24:15? There will be A resurrection of the saved and A resurrection of the unsaved.

So, how many is that?


It's you who isn't understanding. The Bible describes Jesus' resurrection as "the firstfruits". Which is obviously connected with "those who belong to Him" per 1 Cor 15:23.

iow, Jesus is the FIRST to receive a resurrection body. Then those who belong to Him will get theirs.

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[lamad]

What's not to understand from Acts 24:15? There will be A resurrection of the saved and A resurrection of the unsaved.

So, how many is that?

It's you who isn't understanding. The Bible describes Jesus' resurrection as "the firstfruits". Which is obviously connected with "those who belong to Him" per 1 Cor 15:23.

iow, Jesus is the FIRST to receive a resurrection body. Then those who belong to Him will get theirs.

No one is arguing this point: there will be ONLY TWO resurrection titles: one for the just and one for the damned.
One is titled "the Chief Resurrection" or the most honorable resurrection. The other, for lack of anything else, is the "second death" resurrection.

You wish to force all resurrections of the just into one moment of time. You do err. Jesus own resurrection has to fit on one or the other, since there are ONLY TWO. The 144,000 are seen in heaven just after the midpoint of the week. They must fit into the chief resurrection. Of course the CHURCH will come before them, as Paul taught, before wrath. Then at the end of the week, "on the last day" the OT saints will rise, and along with them the Two Witnesses and the beheaded saints - all a different times using different scriptures.

When you form a theory, it must fit ALL scripture, not just pet ones.

The Bible describes Jesus' resurrection as "the firstfruits". Which is obviously connected with "those who belong to Him"

So are you trying to say Jesus resurrection is the same time as the church? Surely not. There IS a connection: the church will be the next in order to resurrect.

Jesus is the FIRST to receive a resurrection body. Then those who belong to Him will get theirs.

Yes, but there is ORDER

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Which coming? His 1 Thes. 4 coming or His Rev. 19 coming? I think His NEXT coming to the air.

 

[lamad]

Here is your fallacy

"the dead in Christ will rise first ... " how are they watching and waiting?

We are not talking about the dead, we are talking about those alive. ALL the dead in Christ will be raised. I truly hope all who are alive and in Christ will rise too. But I see problems:

Heb. 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

I always like to look at the flip side of such verses and ask, what if someone is born again but NOT LOOKING for Him?

 

[Truth7t7]

No one is arguing this point: there will be ONLY TWO resurrection titles: one for the just and one for the damned.
One is titled "the Chief Resurrection" or the most honorable resurrection. The other, for lack of anything else, is the "second death" resurrection.

You wish to force all resurrections of the just into one moment of time. You do err. Jesus own resurrection has to fit on one or the other, since there are ONLY TWO. The 144,000 are seen in heaven just after the midpoint of the week. They must fit into the chief resurrection. Of course the CHURCH will come before them, as Paul taught, before wrath. Then at the end of the week, "on the last day" the OT saints will rise, and along with them the Two Witnesses and the beheaded saints - all a different times using different scriptures.

When you form a theory, it must fit ALL scripture, not just pet ones.


So are you trying to say Jesus resurrection is the same time as the church? Surely not. There IS a connection: the church will be the next in order to resurrect.



Yes, but there is ORDER

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Which coming? His 1 Thes. 4 coming or His Rev. 19 coming? I think His NEXT coming to the air.

There is "One" future time of resurrection for all that have lived, both righteous and wicked Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29

This takes place immediately after the tribulation, at the second coming of Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:29-31

Daniel below clearly shows this last day resurrection, at the time of tribulation, the books are open, righteous and wicked.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

John 6:40KJV
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Last Day Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

The Bible says so and very clearly. Rev 20 is literal. You cannot prove otherwise. Just make your own false claims.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

None of these verse support your claims of a spiritualized Millennium.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible says so and very clearly. Rev 20 is literal. You cannot prove otherwise. Just make your own false claims.


None of these verse support your claims of a spiritualized Millennium.

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No one is arguing this point: there will be ONLY TWO resurrection titles: one for the just and one for the damned.

So far, so good.

One is titled "the Chief Resurrection" or the most honorable resurrection.

Nope. You're in the weeds again. It is described, NOT titled, as you opine, as the FIRST resurrection.

The other, for lack of anything else, is the "second death" resurrection.

Back out of the weeds.

You wish to force all resurrections of the just into one moment of time.

Because I look carefully at how the verses are worded. Why haven't you done that?

In Acts 24:15 the words "a resurrection of the righteous" and "a resurrection of the wicked" clearly speaks of just 2. And there is NO REASON to FORCE the first one into a number of separate events or at different times. That is pure eisegesis.

You do err. Jesus own resurrection has to fit on one or the other, since there are ONLY TWO.

I already acknowledged that. What's your point?

The 144,000 are seen in heaven just after the midpoint of the week.

Please quote the verse.

They must fit into the chief resurrection. Of course the CHURCH will come before them, as Paul taught, before wrath.

Quote the verse, please. All you're doing now is making claims. I need clear evidence.

Then at the end of the week, "on the last day" the OT saints will rise, and along with them the Two Witnesses and the beheaded saints - all a different times using different scriptures.

You seem to be having difficulty connecting the dots. Maybe you're just trying to connect different dots.

When you form a theory, it must fit ALL scripture, not just pet ones.

OK, then show me the verses that refute what you call my "theory".

So are you trying to say Jesus resurrection is the same time as the church? Surely not.

Of course not.

There IS a connection: the church will be the next in order to resurrect.

No, 1 Cor 15:23 is clear that "those who belong to Him" includes ALL believers of ALL time. Jesus is the "firstfruits", which is followed by everyone else (all saved people).

I can't imagine why this is so difficult to grasp and follow.

But I am eager to see the verses that you think will refute my so-called "theory".

I'm the one who uses Scripture in a straightforward manner.

It's clear, logical and reasonable.

What do you have?


Yes, but there is ORDER

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Which coming? His 1 Thes. 4 coming or His Rev. 19 coming? I think His NEXT coming to the air.[/QUOTE]

 

[FreeGrace2]

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

The words "then comes the end" occurs AFTER Christ's 1,000 year rule.

Where is your explanation of what "1,000 years has ended" means, since you reject its literalness?

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

Well, that's just your own opinion, which I reject. You have no basis for any Scriptural "explanation" since you can't even discern the literalness of Rev 20. And you can't explain the words that clearly indicate that it will end. All this AFTER the Second Coming.

a

fterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

v.24 is a specific reference to the Millennial reign of Christ. The "end" refers to the tribulation, which should be obvious.
v.25 proves that Christ's reign IS literal.

 

[Truth7t7]

Because I look carefully at how the verses are worded. Why haven't you done that?

You look at what you want to see, and disregard what conflicts with your system of belief, a fact

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Truth7t7]

The words "then comes the end" occurs AFTER Christ's 1,000 year rule.

Where is your explanation of what "1,000 years has ended" means, since you reject its literalness?


Well, that's just your own opinion, which I reject. You have no basis for any Scriptural "explanation" since you can't even discern the literalness of Rev 20. And you can't explain the words that clearly indicate that it will end. All this AFTER the Second Coming.

a
v.24 is a specific reference to the Millennial reign of Christ. The "end" refers to the tribulation, which should be obvious.
v.25 proves that Christ's reign IS literal.

There is no 1,000 year Kingdom on earth between verses 23-24 below, as stated you disregard the very clear teaching of scripture, that conflicts with your system of belief, a fact

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You look at what you want to see, and disregard what conflicts with your system of belief, a fact

The only thing that "conflicts" with my understanding is YOUR spiritualizing of Rev 20.

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

Well, go back and read what I wrote. I didn't disregard those words. It seems you have disregarded my response.

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

None of the verses you have quoted support such a fantasy.

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

Why haven't you ever considered that "the end" simply refers to man's rule on earth? iow, Jesus will be the final and proper World Ruler. Before He reigns LITERALLY, the world has been ruled by men in the various countries.

But I guess that would stress your need to spiritualize.

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

Yep. It sure is.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Just go back and read what I wrote. I'm tired of needlessly repeating your verses without even addressing my comments to the verses. Rather rude, I'd say.

 

[FreeGrace2]

There is no 1,000 year Kingdom on earth between verses 23-24 below, as stated you disregard the very clear teaching of scripture, that conflicts with your system of belief, a fact

Prove to me your unsubstantiated spiritualizing of Rev 20. I'm tired of your claims.

 

[Truth7t7]

Prove to me your unsubstantiated spiritualizing of Rev 20. I'm tired of your claims.

It's not going to change, when Jesus Christ returns, it's (The End) Read it real slow and pay close attention (Then Cometh The End)

There is no 1,000 year Kingdom on earth between verses 23-24 below as you have falsely claimed

As stated you disregard the very clear teaching of scripture, that conflicts with your system of belief, a fact

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[VCO]

Left behind? that is Hal Lindsay muck. None of God's children will be left behind.

On what basis would God's blood bought people be left behind?

Hal Lindsay has made more money out of his left behind nonsense than the so - called "healers" have made.

EXCEPT the FOOLISH VIRGINS, those that never RECIEVED that Holy Spirit. NO, that NOT the Charimatic THING.

They are Church Goers who love the Worldly things more than they LOVE THE LORD.

Hear is another example of them:


1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There certainly are people that sit in church Pews every week, WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM. HOW DO I KNOW ? ? ? I USED TO BE ONE OF THEM, that thought my Infant Baptism, and Sitting on a Church Pew regulary mean I was SAVED. NOT AT ALL. I knew every time I tried to commit suicide (3 times), that I was walking into hades/hell. I never KNEW that LOVING JESUS could feel so good. I thought thought the Bible was the most BORING BOOK ON EARTH, NOW it is the most Exciting BOOK. The difference is literally NIGHT and DAY.

Now I LOVE HIM more than any body.

Matthew 7:14 (NIV)
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Only a FEW find it, HOW do you make your THEORY, square with the TRUTH of SCRIPTURE ? ? ?

Matthew 7:20 (NIV)
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.


Fruit of the SPIRIT, is listed in ORDER of IMPORTANCE.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

If AGAPE love is not the MOTIVE for Serving HIM, you are still LOST. I WAS, and I KNEW I WOULD GO TO HADES/HELL.

But that night after my THIRD attempt at SUICIDE the last week of 1977. I wept deeply and long over my sinful lifestyle, and
SURRENDERED willing to JESUS CHRIST out of pure love For HIM, and gave HIM CONTROL of my LIFE. THAT is GENUINE SALVATION.

Sitting on a Church Pew did not SAVE ME, THAT 🡽 love that HE PUT IN MY HEART, DID.

Romans 5:5 (NIV)
5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

 

[Truth7t7]

EXCEPT the FOOLISH VIRGINS, those that never RECIEVED that Holy Spirit. NO, that NOT the Charimatic THING.

They are Church Goers who love the Worldly things more than they LOVE THE LORD.

Hear is another example of them:


1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

There certainly are people that sit in church Pews every week, WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THEM. HOW DO I KNOW ? ? ? I USED TO BE ONE OF THEM, that thought my Infant Baptism, and Sitting on a Church Pew regulary mean I was SAVED. NOT AT ALL. I knew every time I tried to commit suicide (3 times), that I was walking into hades/hell. I never KNEW that LOVING JESUS could feel so good. I thought thought the Bible was the most BORING BOOK ON EARTH, NOW it is the most Exciting BOOK. The difference is literally NIGHT and DAY.

Now I LOVE HIM more than any body.

Matthew 7:14 (NIV)
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Only a FEW find it, HOW do you make your THEORY, square with the TRUTH of SCRIPTURE ? ? ?

Matthew 7:20 (NIV)
20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.


Fruit of the SPIRIT, is listed in ORDER of IMPORTANCE.


Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

If AGAPE love is not the MOTIVE for Serving HIM, you are still LOST. I WAS, and I KNEW I WOULD GO TO HADES/HELL.

But that night after my THIRD attempt at SUICIDE the last week of 1977. I wept deeply and long over my sinful lifestyle, and
SURRENDERED willing to JESUS CHRIST out of pure love For HIM, and gave HIM CONTROL of my LIFE. THAT is GENUINE SALVATION.

Sitting on a Church Pew did not SAVE ME, THAT 🡽 love that HE PUT IN MY HEART, DID.

Romans 5:5 (NIV)
5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

The five foolish virgins were never saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit

(I Know You Not)

Matthew 25:11-12KJV
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 

[lamad]

So far, so good.


Nope. You're in the weeds again. It is described, NOT titled, as you opine, as the FIRST resurrection.


Back out of the weeds.


Because I look carefully at how the verses are worded. Why haven't you done that?

In Acts 24:15 the words "a resurrection of the righteous" and "a resurrection of the wicked" clearly speaks of just 2. And there is NO REASON to FORCE the first one into a number of separate events or at different times. That is pure eisegesis.


I already acknowledged that. What's your point?


Please quote the verse.


Quote the verse, please. All you're doing now is making claims. I need clear evidence.


You seem to be having difficulty connecting the dots. Maybe you're just trying to connect different dots.


OK, then show me the verses that refute what you call my "theory".


Of course not.


No, 1 Cor 15:23 is clear that "those who belong to Him" includes ALL believers of ALL time. Jesus is the "firstfruits", which is followed by everyone else (all saved people).

I can't imagine why this is so difficult to grasp and follow.

But I am eager to see the verses that you think will refute my so-called "theory".

I'm the one who uses Scripture in a straightforward manner.

It's clear, logical and reasonable.

What do you have?

In the OT we find a little about Daniel's 70th week, and what comes after, but in Revelation we have 9 chapter just on the 70th week. Now, using common sense, which should we go to first, to establish doctrine on the 70th week. Of course to the largest discourse on the subject, Revelation. We can then fill in empty spots in our theories from smaller passages.

In our discussion, you picked a good chapter for the chapter is mostly about resurrections. Acts 24:15 does indeed mention two resurrections, but then, so does Revelation. So does Daniel 12:2 We have therefore established that there will be only TWO resurrections, one for the just, one for the unjust.
Do we agree on this point?

So this means that everyone who ever was, is, or ever will be resurrected must fit into one of these two catagories. Can we agree on this? Or will you now fudge and admit there are really three resurrections?

Because I look carefully at how the verses are worded. Why haven't you done that?

Everyone here could say that. It is not that different people don't look, it is that we read verses differently due to preconceived theories. If everyone read ever verse the same, we could all go home. Case in point: when you read first you think sequence: 1, 2, 3. When I read first I think chief or most honorable. When you read "first resurrection" you think one event, but I think first of Jesus, then of the church, then of the 144,000, then of the OT saints along with the Two Witnesses and the beheaded. In other words, I think "every man in his own order."

there is NO REASON to FORCE the first one into a number of separate events or at different times. That is pure eisegesis.

Now who you are out in the weeds. OTHER SCRIPTURES force a good student of the bible to consider them before making a doctrine from one scripture.

1 Thes 4:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [this is a resurrection...but WHEN?
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. [why would paul mention the Day of the Lord, just three verses after his classic rapture verse - UNLESS the rapture would trigger the DAY? ]
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. [When? At the same moment those who are alive are caught up.]
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. [We don't get overtaken, we get raptured! One moment is the church age, and the next moment is is the Day of the Lord.]
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

As I read this I see Paul telling us that his resurrection / rapture will come just before the Day of the Lord or just before wrath. (In Revelation at the 6th seal) Therefore, connecting the dots, this resurrection of the Dead in Christ cannot come at the end as you suppose.

Rev. 14:
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

As I read this, I see they are in heaven. How did they get there? I can only guess they were caught up. WHEN were they caught up? Rev. 14 is some unknown time after the midpoint of the Week. Some may imagine they were martyrd - yet God sealed them for their protection; did God's seal fail? Heaven forbid! It is before the days of GT start. Anyway, as followers of Christ, God will set no appointments with His wrath for them.

When will the OT saints rise? I believe John when he wrote "on the last day." The 7th vial will be the end of the Week and the last day of the Jewish age. What do we find there? The world's worst earthquake! It will be caused when God pulls together the dust that once made up their bodies. This in Rev. 16, some unknown time before Rev. 19.

Rev. 11 Two Witnesses
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Perhaps you don't read all these verses the way I do. Here we have yet another resurrection. I will let you guess when this happens. YOu see, I find all these other resurrections that will come t different times. I cannot ignore them.

You may be able to imagine "peace and safety" after the terrible events that will end the 70th week, but somehow I cannot. It would seem to be the last thing anyone would say.

So far, so good.
I already acknowledged that. What's your point?

I am amazed you missed it. It is pure logic: you believe there are only two. Therefore Jesus own resurrection MUST fit in one or the other. Since it is not logical to place His resurrection of the damned, of course His must be a part of the First or Chief resurrection. And that totally blows your theory.

1 Cor 15:23 is clear that "those who belong to Him" includes ALL believers of ALL time.

Wrong! It is talking about the church. I thought you looked carefully at these verses. It says "they that are "christ's"...is that not very similar to "In Christ?" It is talking about all born again people. Sorry, this is limited to the rapture of the church. OT saints will have to wait until the "last day." No OT person was born again. No one could until Jesus died and rose again.

I find it very interesting that everyone on these forums believes they are right and everyone else is wrong. When the day comes and we arrive in heaven, we will all know.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is "One" future time of resurrection for all that have lived, both righteous and wicked Daniel 12:1-2, John 5:28-29

This takes place immediately after the tribulation, at the second coming of Jesus Christ, Matthew 24:29-31

Daniel below clearly shows this last day resurrection, at the time of tribulation, the books are open, righteous and wicked. (The Final Judgement)

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Last Day Resurrection Of All!

John 6:40KJV
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Last Day Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Prove to me your unsubstantiated spiritualizing of Rev 20. I'm tired of your claims.

It's not going to change

Your mind, right?

when Jesus Christ returns, it's (The End) Read it real slow and pay close attention (Then Cometh The End)

I explained it. You've made NO effort to prove me wrong.

There is no 1,000 year Kingdom on earth between verses 23-24 below as you have falsely claimed

Doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating your mantra, won't make it true. By spiritualizing Scripture only allows people to make up whatever they want. What you can't do is prove your spiritualization.

As stated you disregard the very clear teaching of scripture, that conflicts with your system of belief, a fact

In fact, YOU have no facts that prove your wild spiritualization.

You Will Closely Note, You Conveniently Disregard The Words (Then Cometh The End) To Maintain The False Teaching Of A Millennial Kingdom On Earth, "After The Second Coming", Pretend Like The Words Are Non-Existent

The Second Coming Is (The End) Not The Start Of A Millennial Kingdom on Earth As You Falsely Believe And Teach

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end,

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

You've got a real nice "copy & paste" going on, huh. Seems kinda lazy to me though.

What you continue to fail to do is explain these phrases from Rev 20-
3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

What is clear is that all these mentions of the 1,000 years is that they occur AFTER the trib martyrs are resurrected. And these 1,000 have an END, which is obviously after the first resurrection. So there you are. 1,000 LITERAL years of Christ reigning over earth and "ruling the nations with a rod of iron."

That ain't no spiritualized idea.

And what is clear is that you cannot explain how your 1,000 spiritualized years can be "ended" BEFORE Christ comes back to reign, as Rev 20 clearly shows.