Today’s church’s misunderstandings

[eternally-gratefull]

No pride, but truth

You dont run around correcting others when a beam is in your own eye

Do you agree with Mustaphadrink that Jesus was raised on Saterday? Yes or no?

Do you also believe women should be Bishops/Deacons against the scripture in historical orthodoxy?

Matthew 7:3-5KJV
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

This thread has nothing to do with that. You had no right bringing that into this thread. That just goes to prove your pride

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because a poster teaches and believes against biblical historical orthodoxy, while trying to correct others

Do you also believe and teach women could be Bishops/Deacons against scripture and historical orthodoxy?

Matthew 7:3-5KJV
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

If this is true. Then YOU should not be correcting anyone

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which part of "off-topic" don't you understand?

His pride is deep. If he says it we should not question him.

About to ignore his childish rants again.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Yes Roman Emperor Constantine called the council,and less than 15% of the early church fathers attended, they wanted nothing to do with Constantines newly formed Church State

As previously mentioned, after this council, (Eusebius of Caesarea) Constatines Pope, had Athanasius banished using Constatines civil powers, for his opposition to the Arians, The State Church was formed

Wikipedia: First Council of Nicaea (/naɪˈsiːə/; Greek: Νίκαια [ˈnikεa]) was a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea (now İznik, Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325.

Constantine had invited all 1,800 bishops of the Christian church within the Roman Empire (about 1,000 in the east and 800 in the west), but a smaller and unknown number attended. Eusebius of Caesarea counted more than 250,[22] Athanasius of Alexandria counted 318,[11] and Eustathius of Antioch estimated "about 270"[23] (all three were present at the Council).

What part of the nicaean council do you disagree with?
The Nicaean creed?
The Bible canon?

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

If you disparaging the Nicaean council you are by default casting disparagement on the Bible.

 

[CS1]

If you disparaging the Nicaean council you are by default casting disparagement on the Bible.

well think to be far the Nicaean,(man) did not canonize the bible. The Word of God is the word of God because GOD made it so. If the Nicaean were not under the control of the Holy Spirit the bible as we know it would be of man and not have stood the test of Time AS the Word of God must do.

There is no doubt what we know today as the bible is the inerrant word of God. The inspired word of God without error.

 

[gb9]

If you disparaging the Nicaean council you are by default casting disparagement on the Bible.

can't have it both ways.

can't dismiss the councils as illegitimate , then use the Book they put together.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you agree with Mustaphadrink that Jesus was raised on Saterday? Yes or no?


This thread has nothing to do with that. You had no right bringing that into this thread. That just goes to prove your pride

Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus Rose "Prior" to the end of the Sabbath

As as it "Began" to dawn toward the first day of the week, the body of Jesus Christ had already risen, it's that simple.

Matthew 28:1-6KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus Rose "Prior" to the end of the Sabbath

As as it "Began" to dawn toward the first day of the week, the body of Jesus Christ had already risen, it's that simple.

Matthew 28:1-6KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

So the first day of the week here should be interpreted as dater day correct? That was his argument that it was the sabbath not sunday

 

[CS1]

So the first day of the week here should be interpreted as dater day correct? That was his argument that it was the sabbath not sunday

as per the 1# post

"The church today says that the Sabbath was cancelled. "

 

[Truth7t7]

So the first day of the week here should be interpreted as dater day correct? That was his argument that it was the sabbath not sunday

My explanation can't be any more clear

Scripture clearly teaches, Jesus Christ rose on the Sabbath, read it again

Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus Rose "Prior" to the end of the Sabbath

As as it "Began" to dawn toward the first day of the week, the body of Jesus Christ had already risen, it's that simple.

Matthew 28:1-6KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My explanation can't be any more clear

Scripture clearly teaches, Jesus Christ rose on the Sabbath, read it again

Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus Rose "Prior" to the end of the Sabbath

As as it "Began" to dawn toward the first day of the week, the body of Jesus Christ had already risen, it's that simple.

Matthew 28:1-6KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

The argument is the lady came on the first DAY of the week should actually be interpreted the woman came in the sabbath
again do you agree?

 

[Truth7t7]

The argument is the lady came on the first DAY of the week should actually be interpreted the woman came in the sabbath
again do you agree?

The women were gathered at the tomb at the end of the Sabbath as scripture clearly teaches, as it "Began" to dawn towards the First day, they were already there, it's not rocket science, its plain, clear, and very easy to comprehend

When they arrived on the Sabbath, the body of Jesus was already gone, Jesus rose on the Sabbath, it's that simple.

Why do you continue to question the truth before your eyes?

Matthew 28:1-6KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

 

[CS1]

The argument is the lady came on the first DAY of the week should actually be interpreted the woman came in the sabbath
again do you agree?

The first thing we need to do is to compare the gospel records. When we do, we discover that the other Gospel accounts clearly show that this visit occurred on the first day of the week. Here is what they say.

When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb (Mk. 16:1-2).

But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came unto the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared (Lk. 24:1).


finally

Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (Jn. 20.1).

Historical Testimony

three testimonies from three eyewitnesses.

The other records are clear. The visit occurred around dawn on the first day of the week.


The Sabbath ended at 6:00 p.m. the previous evening, and the dawn of Sunday morning was approaching. The Greek of the passage is opse sabbaton, meaning “after the Sabbath” (Arndt and Gingrich 1967, 606). The Revised Standard Version thus correctly translates, “Now after the Sabbath . . .” The New American Standard Bible renders the verse in the same way.


If we examine post-apostolic writers (ca. from A.D. 100 to A.D. 325), they agree with all the evidence we’ve presented: the other gospel records, the Greek translation, and the New Testament practice of the early church. Sunday was the resurrection day.

The Lord rose from the dead not on Saturday, but on Sunday morning.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The women were gathered at the tomb at the end of the Sabbath as scripture clearly teaches, as it "Began" to dawn towards the First day, they were already there, it's not rocket science, its plain, clear, and very easy to comprehend

When they arrived on the Sabbath, the body of Jesus was already gone, Jesus rose on the Sabbath, it's that simple.

Why do you continue to question the truth before your eyes?

Matthew 28:1-6KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.

Once again. My post.

I think we need to look at the whole passage.

vs 1. when the sabbath had passed. "diagenomai - to pass. to be over, to go through to elapse."

vs 3. on the first (the word "day" was added, that is why it is in italics.) of the "sabbaton - Saturday, week, period of seven days, period of seven years, the seventh day of the week"

in order to properly translate it you have to look at the whole passage not just the verse.

In verse 1. It says the sabbath had past or was over, we cant then say in verse three, it was on the sabbath (Saturday)as you are suggesting. So we use a different interpretation as was suggested by @CS1 . We see as an example in Daniel. Sabbath was used to determine a week of days or a week of years 7 in number. So using this with the fact the yesterday sabbath had been completed. The only interpretation possible was the first of the "week of 7 days" or the first of the week. or as we see. the first day of the week.

show me where I am in error..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The first thing we need to do is to compare the gospel records. When we do, we discover that the other Gospel accounts clearly show that this visit occurred on the first day of the week. Here is what they say.

When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb (Mk. 16:1-2).

But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came unto the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared (Lk. 24:1).


finally

Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (Jn. 20.1).

Historical Testimony

three testimonies from three eyewitnesses.

The other records are clear. The visit occurred around dawn on the first day of the week.


The Sabbath ended at 6:00 p.m. the previous evening, and the dawn of Sunday morning was approaching. The Greek of the passage is opse sabbaton, meaning “after the Sabbath” (Arndt and Gingrich 1967, 606). The Revised Standard Version thus correctly translates, “Now after the Sabbath . . .” The New American Standard Bible renders the verse in the same way.


If we examine post-apostolic writers (ca. from A.D. 100 to A.D. 325), they agree with all the evidence we’ve presented: the other gospel records, the Greek translation, and the New Testament practice of the early church. Sunday was the resurrection day.

The Lord rose from the dead not on Saturday, but on Sunday morning.

At the end of the sabbath day. It was done. On the beginning of the sabbath of weeks. which would be Sunday.

Lets not forget also. Hebrew days start at sunset the night before. SO the sabbath ended at sunset yesterday night. (or a little bit later) this has the time at the sun was rising, which means the sabbath was long over

 

[CS1]

At the end of the sabbath day. It was done. On the beginning of the sabbath of weeks. which would be Sunday.

Lets not forget also. Hebrew days start at sunset the night before. SO the sabbath ended at sunset yesterday night. (or a little bit later) this has the time at the sun was rising, which means the sabbath was long over

yes But Jesu rose early on the morning, not the evening.

 

[EnglishChick]

The church today says that the Sabbath was cancelled. As proof they tell of Mary’s discovery of the risen Christ on Sunday. It doesn’t make sense that the time of a discovery should change what God tells us He created on the seventh day, or that a time of discovering something establishes when it happened, but that is the way they think.

The Lord gave us a new covenant, one we are told makes the old covenant obsolete. The church tells us that God knew he make a mistake so he cancelled the old covenant. I guess they think that God is like them and they know they make mistakes so they say so does the Lord. As if the Lord was just another human.

The church goes on and on about the mistakes the Lord has made. They say the sacrificial system didn’t work at all for atonement of sin even though scripture tells us it did. When the blood of cattle was used to feed the Lord, like pagans fed idols and not as a symbol of Christ, God hated it so the church tells us it was a mistake of the Lord to establish it.

The church tells us OT scripture can be in error. OT scripture tells us that God guides us to praise and celebrate His plan of salvation for us with feasts for all generations. The church tells us that is an error, that the feasts are to be treated the same way cutting the foreskin is treated.

Scripture tells us to celebrate Christ with Passover, the church says God cancelled that. They made up a new way to do it and named it using pagan gods to inspire them to make up a name for this replacement.

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.

churches preach this??


God didn't change His mind. He gave the Sabbath to the Israelites as a foreshadow of the Sabbath rest then to come which is Christ

It has been fulfilled not abolished

Christ is our Sabbath rest

Having said that I believe the body needs rest and resting on a Saturday is a good thing

It is a gift made for us. We are not under condemnation if we don't do it but we miss out on God's blessings of a day of rest.

am not legalistic about it but I like to keep Shabbat a day of rest and relaxation

 

[Truth7t7]

The first thing we need to do is to compare the gospel records. When we do, we discover that the other Gospel accounts clearly show that this visit occurred on the first day of the week. Here is what they say.

When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb (Mk. 16:1-2).

But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came unto the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared (Lk. 24:1).


finally

Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (Jn. 20.1).

Historical Testimony

three testimonies from three eyewitnesses.

The other records are clear. The visit occurred around dawn on the first day of the week.


The Sabbath ended at 6:00 p.m. the previous evening, and the dawn of Sunday morning was approaching. The Greek of the passage is opse sabbaton, meaning “after the Sabbath” (Arndt and Gingrich 1967, 606). The Revised Standard Version thus correctly translates, “Now after the Sabbath . . .” The New American Standard Bible renders the verse in the same way.


If we examine post-apostolic writers (ca. from A.D. 100 to A.D. 325), they agree with all the evidence we’ve presented: the other gospel records, the Greek translation, and the New Testament practice of the early church. Sunday was the resurrection day.

The Lord rose from the dead not on Saturday, but on Sunday morning.

We will disagree, The Lord rose on the Sabbath, prior to the Jewish dawning day that takes place in the evening

As the sun is going "Down" its dawning towards the new day, perpetual from creation, the evening starts and ends the day, darkness or night was before the day or light.

The Sabbath endear the going down of the Sun, not its rising as you suggest

Genesis 1:1-5KJV
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Matthew 28:1KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We will disagree, The Lord rose on the Sabbath, prior to the Jewish dawning day that takes place in the evening

As the sun is going "Down" its dawning towards the new day, perpetual from creation, the evening starts and ends the day, darkness or night was before the day or light.

The Sabbath endear the going down of the Sun, not its rising as you suggest

Genesis 1:1-5KJV
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Matthew 28:1KJV
1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This defeats your whole argument. The day starts in the evening. Even our day starts at midnight.

In the passages in discussion, The sabbath had ended. Meaning they came toward daylight. which would be the day after the sabbath.

Jesus rose sometime during that period.