Are churches dying?

[RickJones]

I think those 'sunday' churches of oldies will close as they are quite cliquey and they arent open to new believers.
I have heard of churches like that closing their doors because they cannot afford to keep their building. if they havent paid their mortgage. (yes, churches actually have mortgages?!)

Young people end up going to newer churches, or churches that just rent their premises. alot of people are not returning to the only open on sunday type churches, because basically most of the church land is actually just one huge parking lot. You cant do anything much on a parking lot. Alright if you have a car, but what about people ,that dont have one and cant drive to church.

People dont want to go there and sit for a couple of hours fighting for a carpark and paying for the privelige. Id rather go worship in a garden.

I didn't want to come right out and say that some churches seem like exclusive clubs.. but that is the feeling I get. They aren't just failing to grow.. they don't want to grow and don't really welcome new people. Maybe they aren't under any obligation to grow? I don't know.

I know that I could personally get people to show up. Maybe not a ton, but I could get some. And I've seen how much money flows through some of these small churches. Pastors working on a strictly part time basis but still pulling in 4k a month just from their small church. But hardly anyone shows up.

This is why I'm asking questions like this. I went to church a couple of times when I was young. And that was it. After I moved out on my own I attended church some with my wife, but not that much. Maybe because I didn't grow up with it, I don't understand what "church" is. What I see happening with many of these churches doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Lynx]

What I have noticed in my area is that those churches that refuse to compromise are getting smaller.
Those that are growing in numbers are the ones that seem to being offering a watered down Gospel, a false Gospel, or no Gospel at all, and have all types of programs to entertain people.

If you ever plan to come through Southwest Tennessee, shoot me a private message and I'll give you directions to my church. We don't do any of that... Shrinking OR watering down.

I don't know, maybe we are the exception that proves the rule... Or maybe it's just the area we live in. There are a few other churches near me that also neither shrink nor water down.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

People leave church for a variety of reasons. Here are two reasons that I have personally experienced.

1. A person has not formed a deep relationship with the other members or pastor. I think this is the main reason. Something is contributing to this distance such as politics, different interpretations of the Bible, etc. A large component of going to church IS socializing (in the past social life revolved around the church such as get-togethers, etc., Wednesday night dinners, etc.). If people are not connecting, what happens is people start skipping services and stop going altogether. A person doesn't want small talk, but deep connection.
2. People want to "learn" from the sermons. This is the highlight of the service for most people (for others it can be the music, etc.). If they are not learning, the sermons become boring or preachy. My pastor gives the gospel and tells us to turn to Jesus in one form or another every Sunday, even though the sermon topic is different, so oftentimes I feel the gist of the sermon is the same. I think this also depends on the person (some people just want a "feel good" sermon and feel motivated leaving the church, whereas others want to learn something "new") and it is not always the pastor's fault.

So, in most cases, people leave church not because of God but because of other issues.

 

[shittim]

So- if we want to do His will and meet together in His name we need to go back to the model of the first church, sell the excess properties, meet in each others homes, meet each others needs.

 

[DWR]

If you ever plan to come through Southwest Tennessee, shoot me a private message and I'll give you directions to my church. We don't do any of that... Shrinking OR watering down.

I don't know, maybe we are the exception that proves the rule... Or maybe it's just the area we live in. There are a few other churches near me that also neither shrink nor water down.

That is great to hear.
I live in North West Arkansas. We have had tremendous population growth in the last 20-30 years and most have come from out of state. Most of us believe those people have had a negative influence on our old fashion, God fearing live style.
Singing old hymns, and preaching the Gospel does not appeal to them.
They want to be entertained, not told they are sinners and need Jesus.

 

[DWR]

If you ever plan to come through Southwest Tennessee, shoot me a private message and I'll give you directions to my church. We don't do any of that... Shrinking OR watering down.

I don't know, maybe we are the exception that proves the rule... Or maybe it's just the area we live in. There are a few other churches near me that also neither shrink nor water down.

Thanks for the invitation to visit, but age has caught up with my wife and me and just are not able to go like we used to.

 

[mustaphadrink]

If they ceased long ago, how come I prayed for someone who was brain dead and he got up and walked?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Ministries like this have been debunked time and time again. This type of thing gives Christianity a bad name when the truth of their deception is revealed.

Ah, the thing is that not all churches hang their miracles out on the line to dry. Most do it quietly and carefully and the people healed are so grateful. I was delivered from a spirit of rejection which I didn't know I had but the church I was in did so by faith they cast out the spirit of rejection and hey presto, I am all hunky dory.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Yes my only point is that miracles are no longer a part of everyday happenings and we should not make miracles an integral part of being a Vhristian. Can God do miracles? Of course. Does he still do them? I have been a witness to some situations that can only be described as miraculous but they are rare. Do we have ANY evidence of raising people from the dead or instant miraculous healing or any other miracle besides speaking I. You giles which is also very highly in doubt these days. The scripture O cited makes it clear that in modern day miracles as they were in the time of Jesus and the disciples have ceased

The scripture O cited ??????? The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Having seen plenty of miracles I will go with the flow and keep them happening. I had a time when I used to pray for legs that were two different lengths so the person could not walk properly. I prayed for them and they SAW one of their legs grow so they were both the same length.

 

[shittim]

Seen those as well, frequently. It is always His will that we be well, whole, healed, restored. If we aren't the problem is not on His end.
blessings

 

[Lanolin]

I didn't want to come right out and say that some churches seem like exclusive clubs.. but that is the feeling I get. They aren't just failing to grow.. they don't want to grow and don't really welcome new people. Maybe they aren't under any obligation to grow? I don't know.

I know that I could personally get people to show up. Maybe not a ton, but I could get some. And I've seen how much money flows through some of these small churches. Pastors working on a strictly part time basis but still pulling in 4k a month just from their small church. But hardly anyone shows up.

This is why I'm asking questions like this. I went to church a couple of times when I was young. And that was it. After I moved out on my own I attended church some with my wife, but not that much. Maybe because I didn't grow up with it, I don't understand what "church" is. What I see happening with many of these churches doesn't make sense to me.

they get money by renting out the properties on church land like the manse, or hall or daycare centre.
some charge for people to use their carparks.
Its weird I agree.

 

[shittim]

The "church" is the body of believers, it was never intended to be a building or organization.
He is the same yesterday, today, and forever, what He did in the past He is still doing today. Most of our "church" leaders have fallen out of knowledge of how to work in the power He died on the cross to bring us.
I and many see and experience Holy Spirit manifestation every day.
blessings

 

[Subhumanoidal]

That is quite judgmental. So you are assuming you know something about my walk with God simply based on whether I believe miracles happen as you are describing. It seems your position is that if a person doesn’t believe as you do they aren’t a Christ follower. How narrow minded

Expect that on this site. Especially in the Bible Discussion Forums, where shittim is a regular.

 

[Lanolin]

some churches have property managers
one church I knew sold off their land so the road could be widened and they could only use that money for the church building, not the people.

so 'going to church' for some means going to a building each week and paying, not praying for the privelige. In the olden days they had 'rent a pews'. The wealthy always sat at the front. You wore your best clothes, sang a few songs and then listened to a lecture, then went home.

of course there might be some spiritual component to all this, but for most it was just a ritual that people did like weddings and funerals. As a new believer I didnt get it at all. it was something other families did and their ancestors names were on the gravestones and their pictures on the walls.

For me it was more like a school but I learned that I could grow a lot quicker spiritually when I read the Bible in my own time everyday than listen to soundbites from a preacher...I just felt like after a while it was the same thing again and again. Nothing wrong with revision and repetition and routine, thats how people learn, but you reach a certain stage in your spiritual life where you outgrow it. I guess thats when its time to go and plant a new church..and spread the gospel to those who havent heard.

 

[shittim]

Sounds like your experience was in outward form churches where worship is listening to someone talk about Him, not with Him and too Him.
Isn't that true of nearly all of us?
Planting another "church" that does the same thing won't bring much growth.
blessings

 

[Mission21]

Nowadays, the focus is on..
- More members, status, recognition, money/assets, etc..
----
Many church buildings/properties are not much used..esp. mega churches.
- Due to pandemic/Covid issue.
On another Christian Forum, one post said..
- "I hope that this will help people to think/reflect on..
'what is important?' "
----
There have been always 'remnants' in Christian history.
'The Church' never dies..
- Rises again & again.
That has been the pattern..for 'Christian Movement'.
- From the beginning...the 1st century.
---
* I am on several Christian Forums.

 

[Lanolin]

I think in this day and age churches (believers) have moved online to share the gospel, so anyone with an internet connection can access it. Prior to that there was radio. But a lot of broadcasting was regulated and air time was expensive. wifi is now free in many places and the connections are much faster.

This wasnt the case even 20 years ago when a lot of people still needed to go to a building and gather to hear the word of God being read out loud. A lot of people back then also werent wealthy enough to own their own homes to host lots of people every week. Though home churches have taken off in the suburbs. (For there to be suburbs you need an urban area of a certain size and population and enough land)

Nowadays its cheaper to rent a big warehouse in an industrial area and use that as a church gathering place.

 

[Lanolin]

I recall some of the more tradtional churches complaining about lack of members attending and they were like wishing that people didnt move from church to church. But the thing is people move where they have jobs out of necessity. Sometimes work in one place will dry up, and its often not in anyones control. Gone are the days where there is job security for 40 years. If you are blessed to have a stable job and regular income, and a fixed address (and a car to get to places) thats what a lot of churches really want people to have.

its ideal but thats not going to happen for a lot of people. Maybe the middle class people but that is shrinking thanks to economy, which is dependant on govt policies to do with land use, immigration, and banks.

 

[Iamabeliever]

I obviously don’t know your area but, in general, churches are dying and are becoming less relevant to our world. The reason for this is that churches have drifted from their main purpose of knowing Great d and making him known. Too many churches are willing to compromise the truth to fit into society and some don’t even stay true to the Bible. When a church looks like acts like and smells like Christ people will show up in droves bit sadly that isn’t true for many churches these days

problem is they are cults and young people arent buying that. Pastors force them to believe but no one new is buying that either

 

[MoonCresta]

I didn't want to come right out and say that some churches seem like exclusive clubs.. but that is the feeling I get. They aren't just failing to grow.. they don't want to grow and don't really welcome new people. Maybe they aren't under any obligation to grow? I don't know.

I know that I could personally get people to show up. Maybe not a ton, but I could get some. And I've seen how much money flows through some of these small churches. Pastors working on a strictly part time basis but still pulling in 4k a month just from their small church. But hardly anyone shows up.

This is why I'm asking questions like this. I went to church a couple of times when I was young. And that was it. After I moved out on my own I attended church some with my wife, but not that much. Maybe because I didn't grow up with it, I don't understand what "church" is. What I see happening with many of these churches doesn't make sense to me.

You hit the nail on the head. Churches, especially mine, are country clubs. Different members have different status. Cliques form that last for decades. I've been attending my church for 20 years and I haven't been so much as asked to lead a group in prayer. I've joined a prayer group in the church, simply because I need no approval to pray (and I really believe in the power of prayer). Occasionally, we have a play or a passion play group in the church. The same people from over 20 years ago are rounded up to perform. There is no NO development of people in our church. This is why we have such a high turnover. And don't get me started on praise teams that are up front for no other reason that to promote themselves - look at me - look at me. They've turned congregational singing into an entertainment show. And that clique is the tightest of all. That's my opinion.

However, tomorrow, I'm going to be a greeter. I'm really going to use this opportunity to meet new people, find out their strengths and drag them to the people in charge of the area that the person says they have experience in. I'm sure to get a lot of dirty looks from those in charge that don't want any new people in their area, but hey, so be it. I plan to follow up and see how they are or aren't fitting in and why.