Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Major]

HOW?

PICJAG,
101G.

by the way you act.

 

[Major]

HOW?

PICJAG,
101G.

You have to be kidding all of us.

1. YOU called other Christian brothers "SILLY".
2. YOU called other Christian brothers "Un-educated".
3. YOU called other Christians brothers "IGNORANT".
4. YOU made claims and would not and have not validated them with the Scriptures.
5. YOU did not prove your post that Paul was a church Pastor.
6. YOU refused to admit YOUR error.
7. YOU refused to apologize for YOUR error.
8. YOU made very sarcastic comments to your Christian brothers.
9. YOU made me make up this list from what you posted openly and could have read it for yourself.
10You continue to use LARGE, BOLD, and RED letters so as to YELL at people as if loud and bold makes truth.

How many more do you require?

To be brutally honest with you, YOU my friend, by the reasons I listed for you, are the example of why some people do not come to Christ. Your open, visible words are not seen by others as Christlike and that is a tragic shame for which you will someday have to give an account to Christ for.

Instead of an honest, open dialog, you treat people here as if they are your enemy.

 

[101G]

You have to be kidding all of us.

1. YOU called other Christian brothers "SILLY".
2. YOU called other Christian brothers "Un-educated".
3. YOU called other Christians brothers "IGNORANT".
4. YOU made claims and would not and have not validated them with the Scriptures.
5. YOU did not prove your post that Paul was a church Pastor.
6. YOU refused to admit YOUR error.
7. YOU refused to apologize for YOUR error.
8. YOU made very sarcastic comments to your Christian brothers.
9. YOU made me make up this list from what you posted openly and could have read it for yourself.
10You continue to use LARGE, BOLD, and RED letters so as to YELL at people as if loud and bold makes truth.

How many more do you require?

To be brutally honest with you, YOU my friend, by the reasons I listed for you, are the example of why some people do not come to Christ. Your open, visible words are not seen by others as Christlike and that is a tragic shame for which you will someday have to give an account to Christ for.

Instead of an honest, open dialog, you treat people here as if they are your enemy.

GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for the reply, second you was the first one to call me "silly". now, we see you have no response to what we have posted, so I will not be a part of your pity party here.

and talking about being a Christian brother, have you once Greeted me when you come on the form? I always greet everyone. have you one time thank me for a reply i gave? NO, BUT I HAVE SHOWN THIS KINDNESS TO YOU OVER AND OVER, YES CHECK MY POSTS I ALWAYS SAID, "FIRST THANKS FOR THE REPLY", EVEN IF I DIDN'T AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I GAVE YOU THANKS.

so don't come to me with this, "You have to be kidding all of us", or this "Christian Brother" EXCUSES, for that's all what it is an excuse.

if you was a true Christian brother you would have acted like one, but YOU DID NOT. so don't come to me complaining.

being a Good christian, I will end this conversatation with you completly. because vain babbling is useless.

so good day.

PICJAG.

 

[Major]

GINOLJC, to all
first thanks for the reply, second you was the first one to call me "silly". now, we see you have no response to what we have posted, so I will not be a part of your pity party here.

and talking about being a Christian brother, have you once Greeted me when you come on the form? I always greet everyone. have you one time thank me for a reply i gave? NO, BUT I HAVE SHOWN THIS KINDNESS TO YOU OVER AND OVER, YES CHECK MY POSTS I ALWAYS SAID, "FIRST THANKS FOR THE REPLY", EVEN IF I DIDN'T AGREE WITH YOU, BUT I GAVE YOU THANKS.

so don't come to me with this, "You have to be kidding all of us", or this "Christian Brother" EXCUSES, for that's all what it is an excuse.

if you was a true Christian brother you would have acted like one, but YOU DID NOT. so don't come to me complaining.

being a Good christian, I will end this conversatation with you completly. because vain babbling is useless.

so good day.

PICJAG.

Post #2341........
"101G said:
HOW?

PICJAG,
101G."


You are pitiful!

YOU asked and I told you. I could give a rats tail if you talked or ignored me at this point. Actually I do.......
PLEASE ignore me and do not respond to me anymore!!!!! PLEASE!

 

[Nehemiah6]

I understand that in the Bible roles of genders have been written which I also have struggled to understand and have not done enough research, but I also know a lot of the ways written in the Bible about men and women was through culture/man and Jesus came to change things.

The Bible transcends all cultural and time constraints. What every person should clearly note is that Paul was writing his epistles by divine inspiration (as confirmed by himself and Peter). So while Paul said that in the Body of Christ (the Church) all distinctions have been abolished, in the home and in the local church (assembly) men and women have DISTINCT AND SEPARATE ROLES.

Thus women are excluded from preaching, teaching, or having any authority over men within the local church. They are also commanded to be silent during church meetings for worship, and are required to also cover their heads and their hair during worship. This is not according to men, or to according to cultures, but according to God and Christ. So why is this a bitter pill to some women? The short answer: a rebellious spirit.

 

[Monika]

The Bible transcends all cultural and time constraints. What every person should clearly note is that Paul was writing his epistles by divine inspiration (as confirmed by himself and Peter). So while Paul said that in the Body of Christ (the Church) all distinctions have been abolished, in the home and in the local church (assembly) men and women have DISTINCT AND SEPARATE ROLES.

Thus women are excluded from preaching, teaching, or having any authority over men within the local church. They are also commanded to be silent during church meetings for worship, and are required to also cover their heads and their hair during worship. This is not according to men, or to according to cultures, but according to God and Christ. So why is this a bitter pill to some women? The short answer: a rebellious spirit.

As I have said Paul grew up in a value system that elevated men above women and Jesus changed Paul’s value system. This allowed Paul to write in his letter to the Galations, of the the equal value of all God’s people.
“In Jesus Christ, you are all children of God through faith.. there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free nor is there male or female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ.”
I understand that in the Bible roles of genders have been written which I also have struggled to understand and have not done enough research, but I also know a lot of the ways written in the Bible about men and women was through culture/man and Jesus came to change things.

 

[Aidan1]

As I have said Paul grew up in a value system that elevated men above women and Jesus changed Paul’s value system. This allowed Paul to write in his letter to the Galations, of the the equal value of all God’s people.
“In Jesus Christ, you are all children of God through faith.. there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free nor is there male or female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ.”
I understand that in the Bible roles of genders have been written which I also have struggled to understand and have not done enough research, but I also know a lot of the ways written in the Bible about men and women was through culture/man and Jesus came to change things.

Well, I know thats research iscdepend on what you are want to know. You find many liberal theologians which useing the argument from culture in this time and that till today cultur and role of woman has changed.
I believe that some has to with cultur. We are wearing different cloth f.e. But certain teachings are not depend on time ore culture.
So f.e. the sight of God from man and wife and their responsibilities.

 

[Monika]

The Bible transcends all cultural and time constraints. What every person should clearly note is that Paul was writing his epistles by divine inspiration (as confirmed by himself and Peter). So while Paul said that in the Body of Christ (the Church) all distinctions have been abolished, in the home and in the local church (assembly) men and women have DISTINCT AND SEPARATE ROLES.

Thus women are excluded from preaching, teaching, or having any authority over men within the local church. They are also commanded to be silent during church meetings for worship, and are required to also cover their heads and their hair during worship. This is not according to men, or to according to cultures, but according to God and Christ. So why is this a bitter pill to some women? The short answer: a rebellious spirit.

Sorry I accidentally responded with the message you originally responded to and I wasn’t able to delete it. Here is some information I came across the pst hour.
https://www.cbeinternational.org/re...en-someone-says-women-should-be-silent-church

https://www.cbeinternational.org/re...al/bible-teaches-equal-standing-man-and-woman

 

[Dino246]

As I have said Paul grew up in a value system that elevated men above women and Jesus changed Paul’s value system. This allowed Paul to write in his letter to the Galations, of the the equal value of all God’s people.
“In Jesus Christ, you are all children of God through faith.. there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free nor is there male or female, for you are all one in Jesus Christ.”
I understand that in the Bible roles of genders have been written which I also have struggled to understand and have not done enough research, but I also know a lot of the ways written in the Bible about men and women was through culture/man and Jesus came to change things.

Hi Monika... as you are probably aware, there is strong disagreement among Christians on this matter. It is typical of the “No” crowd to use high and mighty language to bolster their claims, as Nehemiah6 did. Don’t be intimidated by it. Keep doing your own research, and invite the Lord to show you the truth.

 

[Monika]

Hi Monika... as you are probably aware, there is strong disagreement among Christians on this matter. It is typical of the “No” crowd to use high and mighty language to bolster their claims, as Nehemiah6 did. Don’t be intimidated by it. Keep doing your own research, and invite the Lord to show you the truth.

Yes I will continue doing research around this topic because it has affected me in the past.
Thank you

 

[pablocito]

Spot on and absolutely correct. The Bible is clear that the world is going to get worse and worse. And then finally be cast into judgment. That has been the pattern and is inevitable. The Holy Spirit and Christians are the things only restraining the fallen race from their fullest expression of sin. This social gospel business is way out of line.......in fact it may be hurting the Church more than it is helping. The Church is never to engage with the unsaved world in any spiritual endeavor.

I fully agree with your description of the required disposition of God's people in the end times and really at all times. From the Old testament to the New Testament to Revelation - there is the command to "come out of them".

 

[Angela53510]

Ok, You do realize the Old Testament was written in Hebrew?

It read Hebrew well, and I have read a number of OT books in Hebrew. But I like Greek better, because I like to read the NT mostly.

So don't worry yourself over silly things like that. You can assume most people who read Greek, probably can read some Hebrew. It was required in my seminary, although many seminaries are dropping the language requirements, which I don't approve of, but, I can see the point. Learning languages can be hard, and not being able to understand them should not hold back a pastor from preaching, teaching and caring for the flock.

 

[Angela53510]

I agree completely!

In Pauls day, a mule was thought better of than a woman.

Yes.....God impressed upon Paul that men and women are equal and he said so. ALSO...the very same God impressed upon Paul to say in 1 Timothy 3:1-2 that.........
"If a MAN desires to be a bishop HE desires a good office and HE must be the HUSBAND of one wife".

I see you didn't read one word of what I wrote about this verse in 1 Tim 3, NOT saying this in the original Greek language. You really are in teachable, aren't you?

 

[Angela53510]

OK. I got it.

It seems to be about 50-50 when you look at all transactions.

Some changed the word MAN to read "ANYONE".

The King James Version and other translations have rendered the second phrase of this passage: “If a man desire the office….” This has given strength to the argument that this passage applies explicitly to the male gender.

It has been many years since I studied Greek. I hated it then as much as I do now. However, it is my understanding that the Greek pronoun "tis" refers either to a male or a female.” Thus, the rendering of this word as “anyone” or “whoever” can be understood.

But then when we come to the phrase......"HE desires a good office" that word HE is MASCULINE.

Then we we come to verse #2....the word HUSBAND is the ANTECEDANT to the 1st verse word of MAN and gives CONTEXT the meaning.

You are right about "tis" being anyone. However there is no word "he" in verse 4 in 1 Tim 3.

"τοῦ ἰδίου οἴκου καλῶς προϊστάμενον, τέκνα ἔχοντα ἐν ὑποταγῇ μετὰ πάσης σεμνότητος·" 1Tim 3:4

The word for "he" is autos, αὐτος. There is no autos or αὐτος in verse 4 above. It simply is not in the passage. Stop trying to prove only men can be pastors, when it says that no where in the Bible, or that women cannot be pastors, which it does not say anywhere in the Bible.

Your verses have completely frayed- they do not in any way prove that only men can be pastors. You better look for some other verses to support your very weak thesis, because 1 Tim 3:1-4 are not "proof" texts for your wrong assumptions. No matter how hard you try to make it fit your theory.

 

[Evmur]

You said...........
"Yes but the church has already fallen away from the bible in the matter of church leadership."

So then you are agreeing with what I have said. Why then the argument ??? It seems to me you are saying that the Pentanolal religion has lead the way away from the Scriptures which is what I said.
So why argue??????

You said.........
"That is not the bible pattern for church leadership, the results are plain for everybody to see, we have men in places of leadership who were ordained by men but neither called or ordained by God. THAT is the real problem.

AMEN. That is not a new revelation. Azur was a false prophet. Hananiah was a false prophet. Zedekiah was a false prophet. I could name hundreds of false prophets that go back 5 or 6 thousand years.

However......THAT fact does not dimish the fact that GOD SAID that it is MAN who must be the pastor of the New Test. church.


You said...........
"Given the choice you would take a called woman over a man not called to pastor."

Well my friend, that is what life is all about...CHOICES. Personally.... I would choose tofollow the Word of God and the day that the church I attended called a woman to be the pastor, would be the day that I left that church because that church would not then be in the will of God.

Your choice is yours!

Well you follow the word which states that women must stay silent, I follow the word which states that women may preach and pray, this is the creme de le creme, none of us could wish for better, Jesus primarily was a preacher of the gospel, so were the apostles.

On his way up to Jerusalem Paul lodged with Phillip who had 4 daughters who were prophetesses, ya think Paul told them to say silent?

 

[Angela53510]

The Bible transcends all cultural and time constraints. What every person should clearly note is that Paul was writing his epistles by divine inspiration (as confirmed by himself and Peter). So while Paul said that in the Body of Christ (the Church) all distinctions have been abolished, in the home and in the local church (assembly) men and women have DISTINCT AND SEPARATE ROLES.

Thus women are excluded from preaching, teaching, or having any authority over men within the local church. They are also commanded to be silent during church meetings for worship, and are required to also cover their heads and their hair during worship. This is not according to men, or to according to cultures, but according to God and Christ. So why is this a bitter pill to some women? The short answer: a rebellious spirit.

So far, you, nor anyone else has shown a passage which says one of the following:

1. ONLY a man can be a pastor
2. NO woman can be a pastor.

The only one with a bad spirit is the people with the Pharisaical spirit, making up rules and boundaries where none exist! You may tithe on mint and dill, but you miss the heart of the Father, and Jesus, who came to save us from our sins, and the result was a change in humanity.

 

[Evmur]

So far, you, nor anyone else has shown a passage which says one of the following:

1. ONLY a man can be a pastor
2. NO woman can be a pastor.

The only one with a bad spirit is the people with the Pharisaical spirit, making up rules and boundaries where none exist! You may tithe on mint and dill, but you miss the heart of the Father, and Jesus, who came to save us from our sins, and the result was a change in humanity.

The scriptures do not categorically and specifically disqualify women from being pastors.

 

[Aidan1]

So far, you, nor anyone else has shown a passage which says one of the following:

1. ONLY a man can be a pastor
2. NO woman can be a pastor.

The only one with a bad spirit is the people with the Pharisaical spirit, making up rules and boundaries where none exist! You may tithe on mint and dill, but you miss the heart of the Father, and Jesus, who came to save us from our sins, and the result was a change in humanity.

Sorry, to say. 1. TIM 3, 1-7, is adressed clearly to Man and not to woman. And eldest/ bishop was in Pauls time what we today call Pastor.

It is to discuss, whether a church should led from one person, ore some eldest.

Well, it is not to proof with a vers that no woman can be Pastor. It is to proof with a vers that a woman can be Pastor.
And there is non vers.

 

[Sipsey]

I see many on both sides of this debate hinging their arguments on a single or a few words. I was taught by a seminary trained fellow that used the ICE method of study and it precludes accepting any Biblical doctrine on the basis of simple exegesis, it is rather the context as it relates the the entire Word of God. I occasionally revisit some of the more debated topics in Modern Christianity and this “Women Pastor” issue seems to be one that is ever growing.

Knowing the Greek and Hebrew behind the verses is great. Often exegesis of a passage can connect some dots not otherwise seen, and sometimes, the translation is spot on. The problem is that no passage of Scripture sits in isolation. God, in His wisdom, has got His messages across in many ways over thousands of years and now it’s in book form for all to read. Ive seen children typify the real meaning of prayer and understanding of Gods’ love better than most theologians. I suggest that many of us are made arrogant by our perceived wisdom. If our wisdom is not from God, it is like the righteousness spoken of by Isaiah; Its not “Filthy,” it’s DEAD.

 

[cv5]

I see many on both sides of this debate hinging their arguments on a single or a few words. I was taught by a seminary trained fellow that used the ICE method of study and it precludes accepting any Biblical doctrine on the basis of simple exegesis, it is rather the context as it relates the the entire Word of God. I occasionally revisit some of the more debated topics in Modern Christianity and this “Women Pastor” issue seems to be one that is ever growing.

Knowing the Greek and Hebrew behind the verses is great. Often exegesis of a passage can connect some dots not otherwise seen, and sometimes, the translation is spot on. The problem is that no passage of Scripture sits in isolation. God, in His wisdom, has got His messages across in many ways over thousands of years and now it’s in book form for all to read. Ive seen children typify the real meaning of prayer and understanding of Gods’ love better than most theologians. I suggest that many of us are made arrogant by our perceived wisdom. If our wisdom is not from God, it is like the righteousness spoken of by Isaiah; Its not “Filthy,” it’s DEAD.

Okay. So what's your stance on women pastors as it relates to the commands of Paul as he laid down the order of the Church?