Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[Lookupnotback]

Why do you feel the need to babble in your posts? Re-reading before you post would do you some good. This is one of the more readable posts. But the main problem with your posts is abundance of assumptions and accusations about other people, and a lack of Biblical content.

Why do you feel the need to act like you can read people's minds and pretend to have some kind of supernatural knowledge of what they do or do not do, while arguing against such knowledge? It does not make sense for you to assume you know what activities other people are involved in when you just met them on the Internet.

Name one time I have ever made a prophecy that came to pass. I do not claim to be a prophet. If I make predictions, generally they are regular human predictions, and I often remember to acknowledge the Lord in that and say 'if the Lord wills' as James teaches.

I pray for sick people. I lay hands on sick people. Some of them say they were healed. If they aren't healed, I do not tell everybody that they are.

Many Christians believe that we receive the seal of the Spirit at salvation, but a believer should also be full of the Spirit. Why did Paul write to fellow believers in Ephesians 5:18 '....be filled with the Spirit.' if your perspective

Why do you feel the need to babble in your posts? Re-reading before you post would do you some good. This is one of the more readable posts. But the main problem with your posts is abundance of assumptions and accusations about other people, and a lack of Biblical content.

Why do you feel the need to act like you can read people's minds and pretend to have some kind of supernatural knowledge of what they do or do not do, while arguing against such knowledge? It does not make sense for you to assume you know what activities other people are involved in when you just met them on the Internet.

Name one time I have ever made a prophecy that came to pass. I do not claim to be a prophet. If I make predictions, generally they are regular human predictions, and I often remember to acknowledge the Lord in that and say 'if the Lord wills' as James teaches.

I pray for sick people. I lay hands on sick people. Some of them say they were healed. If they aren't healed, I do not tell everybody that they are.

Many Christians believe that we receive the seal of the Spirit at salvation, but a believer should also be full of the Spirit. Why did Paul write to fellow believers in Ephesians 5:18 '....be filled with the Spirit.' if your perspective on this issue were true? They were already Christians, so why would he write that?

hummmmm......18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.......so what does one become once born again? A singer! No babble, foretellings of the future or healings of lower back pain. Very interesting

 

[Lookupnotback]

I have presented many areas where someone of which you seem to be a fan and a conference you keep linking presented theological error and misinterpreted scripture. You have not addressed these points or defended these positions.

Ok, i am a simple person, give me one question at a time to answer and i will, but i am not going to sift through volumes of you demonic thesis

 

[Lookupnotback]

First off I don't speak in babble and I don't need to either, tell me why you have an issue with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit recorded in scripture? Are you God? because you seem to speak as IF you know me and talk about healing that I have seen but did not see because you say so? How arrogant. Tell the future? I have never tried to do such things why are to assuming such foolishness?

You clearly don't know what the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for do you? I am asking because from what I see you have said you have no understanding of Prophesying, forth-telling, and foretelling.

In addition, the Greek word for Prophesying found in 1cor chapter 12 is Speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, I would be very careful not to mock and scoff the Holy Spirit in your ignorance. And I am no witch and I am to be stoned to death?

You are a troll, and your hate will not be tolerated much longer.

So the ending of the need to reveal to the Israelites that the Holy Spirit is now gone to the gentiles has not finished and we have to keep telling the world that this is the church age to the gentiles? That is what the signs were for and so why do you need to keep doing it or encouraging it? Who are the Israelites you and yours are revealing this message to when your doing your thing?

 

[Lookupnotback]

I understand CS1 quite well most of the time

Are you suggesting we are still under OT law that we should stone people to death???

....Should we be using the gifts meant as a judgment against the Isrealits and to let them know that the Holy Spirit has now gone to the gentiles because the word is now being expounded upon nolonger in Hebrew but the languages of all mankind. So how does that differ from stoning?

 

[Lookupnotback]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?view=detail&mid=33B2E6C33508F67C5D8E33B2E6C33508F67C5D8E&q=strangefire+history+of+the+charismatics&shtp=GetUrl&shid=3067a099-a7dd-46a1-85ed-50489b742912&shtk=VGhlIFB1cml0YW4gQ29tbWl0bWVudCB0byBTb2xhIFNjcmlwdHVyYSAoU3RldmUgTGF3c29uKSBTdHJhbmdlIEZpcmUgQ29uZmVyZW5jZQ==&shdk=aHR0cDovL3d3dy5ndHkub3JnL3Jlc291cmNlcy9zZXJtb25zL1RNMTMtMTIgU3RyYW5nZSBGaXJlLCBwYXJ0IG9mIEdyYWNlIHRvIFlvdSdzIFRydXRoIE1hdHRlcnMgY29uZmVyZW5jZSBzZXJpZXMsIGV2YWx1YXRlcyB0aGUgZG9jdHJpbmVzLCBjbGFpbXMsIGFuZCBwcmFjdGljZXMgb2YgdGhlIG1vZGVybiBjaGFyaXNtYXRpYyBtb3ZlbWVudCwgYW5kIGFmZmlybXMgdGhlIHRydWUgUGVyc29uIGFuZCBtaW5pc3RyeSBvZiB0aGUgSG9seSBTcGlyaXQuIFRoZSBjb25mZXJlbmNlIGZlYXR1cmVzIHBhc3RvciBhbmQgQmlibGUgdGVhY2hlciBKb2huIE1hY0FydGh1ciwgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyB0ZWFjaGluZyBvciAuLi4=&shhk=x/DmfNE9bdLW1FPsRAfWKN18gYGC3hii8FcD3A70IGg=&form=VDSHOT&shth=OSH.%2F5eYdIdGPg9GuB5lib07VA

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...rm=VDSHOT&shth=OSH.qIYp2gEBbtdWVg%2F%2FMeMlXA

 

[notuptome]

On the contrary, Roger. You are on the very fringes of Christianity today. If you reject the gifts of the Holy Spirit, then you reject the Holy Spirit Himself. What is left is a church with no power. Sick people go in, and they leave the same way. Yet, Jesus took strips for their healing. If God has His way, sick people would come and they would leave healed, just as they did in Jesus' day. Cripples would come and leave healed. The blind and lame would come and leave healed. These things happen in Spirit filled churches. They don't in powerless churches. In Spirit filled churches, it is NORMAL for people to hear the voice of God. In churches who deny the power, few if any ever hear His voice.

May the church of Jesus Christ get back to the way it was in the book of Acts!

The truth is, these things ARE "uptome." They are up to each one of us. We appropriate the things of God by and through our own faith.

Jesus came to die on the cross at Calvary. He came to reconcile lost mankind back to the Father. He did not come to fret over the ailments of the flesh. He came to provide justification, sanctification and glorification to those who place their trust in Him.

How about you endeavor to tell me what exactly are tongues in the current church. I have seen a million things described as tongues but none of them match what happened at Pentecost. Create a basis on which we can discuss this issue of tongues and not create more confusion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

....Should we be using the gifts meant as a judgment against the Isrealits and to let them know that the Holy Spirit has now gone to the gentiles because the word is now being expounded upon nolonger in Hebrew but the languages of all mankind. So how does that differ from stoning?

Stoning kills people. Your question makes little sense.

We are under a New Covenant with better promises.

Stoning people to death is nowhere recommended.

 

[PaulChristensen]

You don't know where you coming from man

You can't tell the difference between miracles of grace and mercy and power signs. You quoted it yourself "do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? can an evil tree bear good fruit?

We could wish to see more peace, joy, love, long suffering etc from Evangelicalism, we do see a lot of provoking and envying. When Jesus spoke about fruit good or evil He was speaking in direct relationship to the miracles He was doing which the Evangelicals [oh pardon] Pharisees said were done by beezlebub.

I love Evangelicals we's all brethren ... most these days love me.

Correction, many workers of iniquity will SAY "have we not done many wonderful works" if they had done those things Jesus could not have blamed them for that's what we are told to do. The trick is to see the difference between "many" and "you" in "I never knew you"

Many is plural You is singular.

Many will no doubt come and say "we Pentecostals ... we Methodists, .... we Baptists ... did not we Baptists do many mighty works" thinking that denomination will save them. They enrolled with the church but they did not enrol with Jesus.

Doing miracles is not the question, the question is did they receive the Holy Spirit as we see they received Him in the bible. The experience in the bible is uniform and recognizable, whether the apostles at Pentecost or Cornelius or Corinth or Ephesus.

But the experience in the modern church is not uniform, folks say they have received Him but we see no evidence of it. .... until happily revival comes along. People seem to say "like yeh I got saved ho hum ... my wife is a good cook " like nothing outstanding has happened to them.

In support of your excellent post:
Everything hinges on the definition of a false prophet or teacher. Jeremiah gives a good definition of those who dream up prophecy when God has not sent them. If we look at the historical context, the false prophets of Israel were saying that God will bring peace and prosperity along with victory over their enemies even though idolatry was rife in the land. What the false prophets were saying was, "Don't worry that you people are worshiping Baal, God will still bless you."

Modern day false prophets say much the same thing. "Even though you are rejecting Christ, ignoring God's Word, practicing the occult and paganism, God will still make you prosperous, heal you and cause you to remain in His blessing. I hear from the Holy Spirit and what I say is God speaking directly to me, so what I am saying to you is the Word of God."

False signs and wonders glorify the big name preacher and deceive people into thinking that he is God's exclusive man of faith and power, and that people have to follow his teaching in order to benefit from them.

The AntiChrist will come with supernatural signs and wonders that will draw people to him and away from Christ. We see the AntiChrist spirit in churches where the leader claims supreme "spiritual" authority for himself, and that anyone who expresses trust in the finished work of Christ and that faith in Christ transcends man's authority is treated as if he has a demon and is ejected. An Antichrist pastor is one who demands that people "come under" his "authority". instead of pointing people to Christ as the sole object of their faith and trust.

Kenny Copeland is one such AntiChrist church leader. He puts himself in the seat of Christ and requires that people put their trust in him and his teaching, thereby blocking free access to Christ Himself.

I knew a Presbyterian minister in a small town who ruled his church with a rod of iron and had to have absolute control over everything and nothing could be done without his direct permission. He even rebuked a church elder for having a gathering of Christian visitors in his home one Sunday afternoon without his authorisation. So it is not just some cultish false shepherds who shows the AntiChrist spirit, but even pastors of Evangelical churches.

I would go as far as to say that Cessationist church leaders who throw believers who start to manifest the gifts of the Spirit out of their churches are showing the AntiChrist spirit, because these false pastors are dictating to Christ how the Holy Spirit should operate in their churches.

 

[PaulChristensen]

1 Cor 13:8 which you have no doubt carefully excised from your bible.

Is this a demonstration of spirit filled people?

You cast doubt on which Jesus you claim to believe. You have been steeped in apostacy and are deeply stained.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Cessationism comes from an AntiChrist spirit. Your accusative comments show the fruit of it, because Satan is the accuser of the brethren. You are laying charge against believers whom God has justified and for whom Christ has died. You have no Scriptural right to charge anyone with apostacy. You need to get right with God.

 

[presidente]

hummmmm......18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.......so what does one become once born again? A singer! No babble, foretellings of the future or healings of lower back pain. Very interesting

Do you think someone who is born again should accuse other people, inventing false facts about them, argue nonsense on forums, and dodge posts that deal with the actual Biblical topics?

The Psalms and Proverbs have much to say about scoffers. Christians who believe the passages in the Bible about spiritual gifts sing, too.

I notice you dodged the point of quoting that verse, which shows people who is already a believer in Christ still needing to be filled with the Spirit. The verse disproves your assumption in your previous post that if someone is in Christ, they have all and enough of the Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Have you not read?
1 Cor. 127 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

Had you continued with this passage, you would have discovered that Paul puts the kibosh on everyone speaking in tongues (v 30 spoken rhetorically).

Have all the gifts of healing? (NO) do all speak with tongues? (NO) do all interpret? (NO)

Which in Pentecostal doctrine would mean that the non-tongues-speakers were not baptized "in" the Spirit (they do not use "with" but "in").

"The manifestation of the Spirit" is that out of about 20 spiritual gifts, every believer will have at least one gift.

 

[presidente]

Ok, i am a simple person, give me one question at a time to answer and i will, but i am not going to sift through volumes of you demonic thesis

You are going to stand before God one day and have to give account of your false accusations. In this case, your accusation about my handling of the word of God. And you should consider whether believers have grace from the Spirit at work in their posts, also. When the Pharisees accused Jesus of having a demon because He was doing works by the Spirit of God, he warned them that he who spoke against the Spirit would not have forgiveness in this age nor in the age to come.

You could also answer why you think it is not true that God gives to one member of the body of Christ the word of wisdom to another the word of knowledge.... to another prophecy... to another divers tongues... to another interpretation of tongues.... if the Bible teaches this? What canceled that scripture? Why do you think I Corinthians 12 is not valid for the church today, but (I assume) consider many, many other passages in the epistles to be applicable?

You can go through my previous posts bit by bit if you like. You do not have to handle all ideas at once.

Since you seem to be a John MacArthur fan, you could explain how his argument that since miracles were clustered during certain time periods in the Old Testament, that in New Testament times when God is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh, we should not expect miracles. That reasoning is flawed. Also, his assertion that miracles cluster as he says has some problems with it. Jack Deere showed several other events that did not fit his assertion in one of his books.

 

[presidente]

Had you continued with this passage, you would have discovered that Paul puts the kibosh on everyone speaking in tongues (v 30 spoken rhetorically).

Have all the gifts of healing? (NO) do all speak with tongues? (NO) do all interpret? (NO)

Which in Pentecostal doctrine would mean that the non-tongues-speakers were not baptized "in" the Spirit (they do not use "with" but "in").

"The manifestation of the Spirit" is that out of about 20 spiritual gifts, every believer will have at least one gift.

In Acts 1:5, for example, the word translated 'with' in some translations is ἐν (en). This word is translated as 'in' in numerous other verses. So it should not really be an issue for non-KJV-onlyists.

 

[lamad]

I have repeated many verses that contradict this recent fad in the so called Christian church. I'm not going to continue to give scripture to those who have not desire to hear.

Only God can change the heart. In these end times men seek only to have their ears tickled. the reject correct doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

the reject correct doctrine. As if yours is the correct one! How funny! I hope you are looking in a mirror!

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Mark 16
KJV
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

OK so then exorcism should also be included with speaking in tongues and the subject of continuationism.

Or do these spiritual gifts come a la carte as one pleases?

 

[Lookupnotback]

Stoning kills people. Your question makes little sense.

We are under a New Covenant with better promises.

Stoning people to death is nowhere recommended.

Of old false prophets were to be stoned and i am saying that based on your faith’s love of foretelling the future and the realities in the failings of the foretellers? It is the same as trying to do it now when it was meant as a sign to the Israelites that they had lost God’s blessing and so the Holy Spirit was going out to the gentiles.

 

[Lookupnotback]

Do you think someone who is born again should accuse other people, inventing false facts about them, argue nonsense on forums, and dodge posts that deal with the actual Biblical topics?

The Psalms and Proverbs have much to say about scoffers. Christians who believe the passages in the Bible about spiritual gifts sing, too.

I notice you dodged the point of quoting that verse, which shows people who is already a believer in Christ still needing to be filled with the Spirit. The verse disproves your assumption in your previous post that if someone is in Christ, they have all and enough of the Spirit.

Which vs is that again please

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Mark 16
KJV
15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
These are the ' signs ' to Israel. This clears up a whole load of issues .

One of the Miracles of St. Anthony of Padua (Anthony Dines with Enemies)

CERTAIN heretics of Rimini decided to end the meddlesome interference of Anthony in their sinful lives. His sermons had turned the attention of the people to their sinful excesses and the only solution was to get rid of the friar. So they invited the Saint to dinner, planning to poison his food. But God revealed their plans to their intended victim. Anthony still came to dine. Before he sat down at table he told his enemies of their plot. But they only laughed at him, reminding Anthony of Christ’s promise to His disciples, “And if they drink of any poisonous drink, it shall not harm them [Mark 16].” If he would eat the poisonous food without harm, they would return to the Faith. Anthony blessed the food and ate it without harm. The heretics confessed their sins and made good their promise.

Is this sign to be believed?
https://www.sainttherse.com/from-the-miracles-of-saint-anthony-of-padua-anthony-dines-with-enemies/#:~:text=Before he sat down at,would return to the Faith.

 

[lamad]

Had you continued with this passage, you would have discovered that Paul puts the kibosh on everyone speaking in tongues (v 30 spoken rhetorically).

Have all the gifts of healing? (NO) do all speak with tongues? (NO) do all interpret? (NO)

Which in Pentecostal doctrine would mean that the non-tongues-speakers were not baptized "in" the Spirit (they do not use "with" but "in").

"The manifestation of the Spirit" is that out of about 20 spiritual gifts, every believer will have at least one gift.

It's great to post a scripture, but it would be greater if that scripture as understood.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

Is an Apostle a “gift” or a person? Can an “Apostle” exist without a person? No.
Is a prophet a “gift” or a person? Can a “prophet” exist without a person? No.
Is a teacher a “gift” or a person? Can a “teacher” exist without a person? No.
Is a “worker of miracles” a “gift” or a person? Can a “worker of miracles” exist without a person? No.

In this CONTEXT:

Is a “gift of healing” a “gift” or a person? Can a “gift of healing” exist without a person exercising that gift? No.

In this CONTEXT: Is “tongues” a language or is it a person? It is both. There can be no tongues without a person speaking.
Note the context: setting people in a local church for ministry purposes:
This passage is all about ministry and people sent for that purpose.
Apostles are PEOPLE.
Prophets are PEOPLE.
Teachers are PEOPLE.
Miracles are really PEOPLE who have the gift of Miracles.

Gifts of healings are really PEOPLE who have a gift of healing. Some may be very good at getting deaf people healed, for example. Others may be very good at healing cancer patients.

Helps are PEOPLE who assist the pastoral ministry by cleaning up, doing the worship part of the service, ushering etc.
Governments are PEOPLE who lead, such as Pastors.

In context, "diversities of tongues" are PEOPLE placed to minister with messages in tongues. In other words, this verse has nothing at all to do with a personal prayer language that is available to ALL. God does not fill one local body with only Apostles! Neither would every member of a body be a prophet or teacher. God will appoint ONE pastor or Apostle to lead a local body of believers, and may send one or two prophets depending on the size of the congregation. The point is, every person in this list is a minister of some kind to the rest of the congregation.

Consider the upper room with 120 people assembled. It must be (according to your theory) that the Holy Spirit did not know which ones of the 120 God the Father wanted to speak in tongues, and instead of waiting to find out, He, the Holy Spirit, just gave ALL of them tongues. I think a better answer is simple: the mighty baptism with the Holy Spirit is available to all and will have the initial evidence of speaking in tongues. In EVERY case in Acts, the Holy Spirit filled all and gave all tongues as a prayer language.

1 Corinthians 14:20
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

 

[Lookupnotback]

You are going to stand before God one day and have to give account of your false accusations. In this case, your accusation about my handling of the word of God. And you should consider whether believers have grace from the Spirit at work in their posts, also. When the Pharisees accused Jesus of having a demon because He was doing works by the Spirit of God, he warned them that he who spoke against the Spirit would not have forgiveness in this age nor in the age to come.

You could also answer why you think it is not true that God gives to one member of the body of Christ the word of wisdom to another the word of knowledge.... to another prophecy... to another divers tongues... to another interpretation of tongues.... if the Bible teaches this? What canceled that scripture? Why do you think I Corinthians 12 is not valid for the church today, but (I assume) consider many, many other passages in the epistles to be applicable?

You can go through my previous posts bit by bit if you like. You do not have to handle all ideas at once.

Since you seem to be a John MacArthur fan, you could explain how his argument that since miracles were clustered during certain time periods in the Old Testament, that in New Testament times when God is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh, we should not expect miracles. That reasoning is flawed. Also, his assertion that miracles cluster as he says has some problems with it. Jack Deere showed several other events that did not fit his assertion in one of his books.

Ok, how about this....show me a miracle, really. Do one, show me one on video, this is the day and age of cellphones, show me an actual 3rd party verified miracle of a born blind man getting his sight or a missing limb grown back full and healthy, and not this one saw some goitre in Africa instantly cured according to someone else. Let us see it and why are not people in wheelchairs there in droves walking away from there wheelchairs?
What was your 1st one again? A 12th chapter or vs somewhere?