Cessationism vs. continuationism...does it make any difference?

[Evmur]

Africa was "saved" through the Word of Faith cult that has infiltrated charismatic churches decades ago.
You move under the false assumption that the promise of believing wealth into existence to people dying from poverty equates to genuine conversion. I don't see it that way.
These groups also drive many Out of church and away from faith due to false promises and the issues I mentioned in my post.

Also you fly the flag that if something is a little right that makes it good. I also don't see it that way. If you give directions to someone and you give a left instead of a right, that will mislead them.

So I'm not going to go with the notion that because they evoke false conversions, or even if genuine in some cases, that then bringing them into a guilt and fear ridden church where they perpetually chase God (not fires) and never catch Him as a good thing.
That only plants in shallow soil and the plants whither away.

scuse me? where did you get all that information about what I believe or assume?

You can't have it both ways bro. You can't moan about mega church and then moan people are being driven away

What false promises? do you wish to say that God does not will above all things that ye mayest be in health and prosper even as thy soul prospereth?"

What I want to see is bible faith and bible experience ... this is not what I see in most Evangelical churches.

 

[Evmur]

Sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but it's been Baptists, they are to this day the largest protestant church in America, and in the world.

... er half of them are charismatic, and half of then are heretics

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

... er half of them are charismatic, and half of then are heretics

Blanket unsupported accusations are the work of Satan. Are you doing the work of Satan? If not you need to support your accusation with evidence. If you have no evidence you are the heretic.

 

[Lookupnotback]

lol View attachment 227082 I understand now , I notice there are a few folks who are simply intent on argument and have no interest in discussion and ill Make the adjustments and avoid those folks as they attempt to constantly bait others into the bitterness and juvenile attitudes and insults ect ect

So Thanks for making that clear so
I don’t try to discuss with you anymore

So that is then? No answers for the need if your deviations from God’s word? Hummm....

 

[Lookupnotback]

Ok, Africa was saved by the word of faith cult? Then they were not saved? Yet we know full well that Voodoo is very real there. And cultural practices affect how one minister there. have you served in Africa? have you been there? because Nigeria has seen a revival and much help from the local church in the United States. We have 10 % of our church are from Africa and they go with other and minister all the time. We have built 5 wells to bring water to the African people. many of them are doctors in our church and have and highly educated and pentecostal.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...11B196D737560A0D88E811B196D737560&FORM=WRVORC

 

[Lookupnotback]

You do not know me, and you insult my character and assume I have bad motives. Again, that speaks more to your own character than it does to mine.

If someone is walking holy with the Lord, he is careful not to make wild, unsubstantiated accusations against other lest he commit the sin of slander. Your posts do not come off as particularly humble.

And no, I did not say or imply that 'love is not a part of the whole plan'? Where did you get that?

Maybe you avoid the issue and accuse because you do not have anything substantial to say on the subject. If not, study more. Not just assume your favorite teacher has it all figured out, but study and know the word of God yourself.



Where have I promoted an emotional "trip'n release"? I don't know what that is. It sounds like something a Hippie might say. I don't speak Hippie.



Quote me where you think I said that. You are not making much sense.



I have posted about very simple and straightforward truths about scripture in this thread. If you do not think so, deal with it specifically instead of accusing me and judging me based on your own opinions. I do not see any real substance in your posts, just accusations and false assertions. If you say I wrote that God is not love, that is just a false accusation. I have communicated plainly in the thread. You have thrown up the storm of dust--accusations without supporting what you have written by the word of God.

If you find fault with any interpretation of scripture I have posted, deal with it in detail and post why you think this is the case. Break from your typical form so far, and post something wise rather than just accusations.

Tell me, why do you need to speak in babble that no one can understand? Or heal that really isn’t healing? Or tell the future like a witch when God say’s if your foretelling does not come about? You are to be stoned to death. Or ask for God to send his holy spirit, when he is already in every child of his upon conversion? Like why fo need to do these things?

 

[Gideon300]

Cessationism and continuationism are but doctrinal possibilities drawn from different viewpoints on scripture. Both have their biblical strengths and weaknesses. I would like to hear from both sides as to why they accept one viewpoint over the other.

I dislike "isms" as they are generally divisive attempts to pigeonhole people and make them a target of those of a different "ism". Cessationism effectively denies that God's power can and should be active in and through the church in this day and age. The excesses and false teachings of some Pentecostals does not invalidate spiritual gifts. Those who reject the gifts are robbing themselves of a great deal of help from God. It's even worse if they undermine the faith of others. It's interesting to study the history of revivals. Many have been accompanied by the restoration of spiritual gifts. The Welsh revival in the early 1900's is one example.

 

[Lookupnotback]

I said previously in this thread that I do not attend a pentecostal church no. I do believe in the continuation of the spiritual gifts.

Sorry to have tared you with that brush, i loose track of so many getting riled up over their need to justify their lies about God’s word, my bad

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

 

[presidente]

You don't know where you coming from man

You can't tell the difference between miracles of grace and mercy and power signs. You quoted it yourself "do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? can an evil tree bear good fruit?

We could wish to see more peace, joy, love, long suffering etc from Evangelicalism, we do see a lot of provoking and envying. When Jesus spoke about fruit good or evil He was speaking in direct relationship to the miracles He was doing which the Evangelicals [oh pardon] Pharisees said were done by beezlebub.

I love Evangelicals we's all brethren ... most these days love me.

Correction, many workers of iniquity will SAY "have we not done many wonderful works" if they had done those things Jesus could not have blamed them for that's what we are told to do. The trick is to see the difference between "many" and "you" in "I never knew you"

Many is plural You is singular.

Many will no doubt come and say "we Pentecostals ... we Methodists, .... we Baptists ... did not we Baptists do many mighty works" thinking that denomination will save them. They enrolled with the church but they did not enrol with Jesus.

Doing miracles is not the question, the question is did they receive the Holy Spirit as we see they received Him in the bible. The experience in the bible is uniform and recognizable, whether the apostles at Pentecost or Cornelius or Corinth or Ephesus.

But the experience in the modern church is not uniform, folks say they have received Him but we see no evidence of it. .... until happily revival comes along. People seem to say "like yeh I got saved ho hum ... my wife is a good cook " like nothing outstanding has happened to them.

In case this is your idea, Matthew 7 is not a polemic against prophesying or doing miracles. Page after page of Matthew and the other Gospels shows Jesus doing miracles, and the apostles did them, too. The problem is with those who do not bear good fruit who do not do the will of the Father. Most of the people who performed miracles in the Bible are the type of people we would generally wish to emulate. Judas Iscariot is an exception.

 

[presidente]

Tell me, why do you need to speak in babble that no one can understand? Or heal that really isn’t healing? Or tell the future like a witch when God say’s if your foretelling does not come about? You are to be stoned to death. Or ask for God to send his holy spirit, when he is already in every child of his upon conversion? Like why fo need to do these things?

Why do you feel the need to babble in your posts? Re-reading before you post would do you some good. This is one of the more readable posts. But the main problem with your posts is abundance of assumptions and accusations about other people, and a lack of Biblical content.

Why do you feel the need to act like you can read people's minds and pretend to have some kind of supernatural knowledge of what they do or do not do, while arguing against such knowledge? It does not make sense for you to assume you know what activities other people are involved in when you just met them on the Internet.

Name one time I have ever made a prophecy that came to pass. I do not claim to be a prophet. If I make predictions, generally they are regular human predictions, and I often remember to acknowledge the Lord in that and say 'if the Lord wills' as James teaches.

I pray for sick people. I lay hands on sick people. Some of them say they were healed. If they aren't healed, I do not tell everybody that they are.

Many Christians believe that we receive the seal of the Spirit at salvation, but a believer should also be full of the Spirit. Why did Paul write to fellow believers in Ephesians 5:18 '....be filled with the Spirit.' if your perspective on this issue were true? They were already Christians, so why would he write that?

 

[presidente]

So that is then? No answers for the need if your deviations from God’s word? Hummm....

I have presented many areas where someone of which you seem to be a fan and a conference you keep linking presented theological error and misinterpreted scripture. You have not addressed these points or defended these positions.

 

[notuptome]

You can't produce even one Scripture that supports the false notion that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit were meant to cease. I could ask you to show me one reference where the word "temporary" is used in relation to the gifts of the Spirit, but I know that you won't be able to, and all you will do is to repeat the old worn out chestnuts to try and show they have ceased, which go like water off a duck's back for most Spirit-filled people who hear them.

1 Cor 13:8 which you have no doubt carefully excised from your bible.

The Scripture does not say that the three will end before the completion of the church age. The notion that the 'perfect" relates to the canon of Scripture was dreamed up by an idiot who dreamed that he was a Bible commentator but woke up to find himself in Cloud Cuckoo Land. It is a lunatic fringe interpretation that no intelligent believer actually accepts.

Is this a demonstration of spirit filled people?

You cast doubt on which Jesus you claim to believe. You have been steeped in apostacy and are deeply stained.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Guess You think Jesus lied when HE said YOu shall receive power after the Holy Spirit has come upon you to be MY witnesses. YOU are just a hateful person as always and a troll.

The desperation of your argument is obvious. Bold enough to impugn the fidelity of Christ rather than admit that 1 Cor 13:8 says what it says.

where? Please you me where it says they have ceased? because it doesn't say that in those verses I can paste them again for you are reading some other kind of new testament? Because my KJV doesn't say that. Are you using a JW Bible?

You accuse others of being hatful yet you exhibit hate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Tell me, why do you need to speak in babble that no one can understand? Or heal that really isn’t healing? Or tell the future like a witch when God say’s if your foretelling does not come about? You are to be stoned to death. Or ask for God to send his holy spirit, when he is already in every child of his upon conversion? Like why fo need to do these things?

First off I don't speak in babble and I don't need to either, tell me why you have an issue with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit recorded in scripture? Are you God? because you seem to speak as IF you know me and talk about healing that I have seen but did not see because you say so? How arrogant. Tell the future? I have never tried to do such things why are to assuming such foolishness?

You clearly don't know what the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for do you? I am asking because from what I see you have said you have no understanding of Prophesying, forth-telling, and foretelling.

In addition, the Greek word for Prophesying found in 1cor chapter 12 is Speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, I would be very careful not to mock and scoff the Holy Spirit in your ignorance. And I am no witch and I am to be stoned to death?

You are a troll, and your hate will not be tolerated much longer.

 

[Magenta]

Tell me, why do you need to speak in babble that no one can understand? Or heal that really isn’t healing? Or tell the future like a witch when God say’s if your foretelling does not come about? You are to be stoned to death. Or ask for God to send his holy spirit, when he is already in every child of his upon conversion? Like why fo need to do these things?

I understand CS1 quite well most of the time

Are you suggesting we are still under OT law that we should stone people to death???

 

[CS1]

The desperation of your argument is obvious. Bold enough to impugn the fidelity of Christ rather than admit that 1 Cor 13:8 says what it says.

You accuse others of being hatful yet you exhibit hate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am refuting your foolishness about the gifts of the holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 - 14 You keep saying "admit that 1cor 13:8 says what it says ", yet you have not shown where it says the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. You continue to ignore that 1cor chapter 12 through 14 are known as UNIT CHAPTERS there for the full context cannot be ascertained by just two verses you find in1cor 13:8-10

YOU should know this but your constant attack on those who have shown you this makes me think you are just a troll.

YOu will not address the truth of the latter part of Chapter 14 nope only 13:8 and 10, it doesn't matter Paul said

FORBID NOT TO speak in Tongues, or that HE said Desire the gifts of the Spirit and Prophesying which you think means one is adding to the word of God it is not, It is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spiirt confirming what is already written from the word of God.

Because you are unlearned and have bais and hate for those you disagree with you are incapable of understanding AND IT IS OK

bECAUSE pAUL ADDRESSED YOU IN CHAPTER 14 OF 1CORTHINANS in verse 38


38 "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." That is for you notuptome
now please go and read verse 39 -40

 

[notuptome]

I understand CS1 quite well most of the time

Are you suggesting we are still under OT law that we should stone people to death???

Interesting question. The answer in a modern society is of course in the negative but perhaps in Israel that may not hold true.

Modern day prophets especially Gentiles should be assumed to be fraudulent.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I am refuting your foolishness about the gifts of the holy Spirit found in 1cor chapter 12 - 14 You keep saying "admit that 1cor 13:8 says what it says ", yet you have not shown where it says the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. You continue to ignore that 1cor chapter 12 through 14 are known as UNIT CHAPTERS there for the full context cannot be ascertained by just two verses you find in1cor 13:8-10

YOU should know this but your constant attack on those who have shown you this makes me think you are just a troll.

YOu will not address the truth of the latter part of Chapter 14 nope only 13:8 and 10, it doesn't matter Paul said

FORBID NOT TO speak in Tongues, or that HE said Desire the gifts of the Spirit and Prophesying which you think means one is adding to the word of God it is not, It is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spiirt confirming what is already written from the word of God.

Because you are unlearned and have bais and hate for those you disagree with you are incapable of understanding AND IT IS OK

bECAUSE pAUL ADDRESSED YOU IN CHAPTER 14 OF 1CORTHINANS in verse 38


38 "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant." That is for you notuptome
now please go and read verse 39 -40

Sorry but it is you who has cast aside all context in these three chapters to arrive at a wrong biblical position. Of course you will never agree with me because you have no interest in the truth.

You will have anything except Christ and Him crucified. You desire only gifts which are not yours. Praying in tongues is one of the greatest errors to come out of the great church of apostacy.

You must repent and make Christ the center of your devotion and worship. Christ and not gifts is the theme of the bible and the love of believers.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

Sorry but it is you who has cast aside all context in these three chapters to arrive at a wrong biblical position. Of course you will never agree with me because you have no interest in the truth.

You will have anything except Christ and Him crucified. You desire only gifts which are not yours. Praying in tongues is one of the greatest errors to come out of the great church of apostacy.

You must repent and make Christ the center of your devotion and worship. Christ and not gifts is the theme of the bible and the love of believers.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

no, I did not, in fact, I have provided the very point contextually And I am looking through your response here I and I do not see you providing any Biblical text or passage to change the point made on 1cor chapter 12- though 14 as Unit Chapter?


I see assertion, name-calling, and judgment but no Bible? For you to cast judgment falsely on me and make such claims I am not surprised but that is what you do to those who are here that you disagree with.



I am not apostate, you just disagree with my position from the word of God which I have asked you to provide biblical refuting of my understanding of 1cor 13:8-10 and address the truth of the context of chapter 13 is carried over in chapter 14.

You have not. So I must bid you a good day and goodbye.

Thank you
That is not right.