50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

[VCO]

Pretribulation rapture is 100% false:

The return of Christ and our gathering to Him (rapture) does not occur until after the falling away (apostasy of the church) and the man of sin (anti-Christ) is revealed. This means Jesus Christ returns after the great tribulation has started:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

At your service,
Brother Runningman

Not at all, only in your mind. Good luck with your theory.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”


Where have you been, the FALLING AWAY IS HAPPENING EVERY WHERE YOU LOOK IN THE WORLD today.

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


The European Unity has not selected a single dictator, BUT THEY WILL, probably sooner than you think.
And the Statue will be complete with the feet of Clay mixed with Iron. A sign that the Revived Roman Empire, is WEAKER that the Original.

 

[VCO]

Almost everything on that chart is wrong!

No, it is correct. You must be looking in a mirror.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not at all, only in your mind. Good luck with your theory.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”


Where have you been, the FALLING AWAY IS HAPPENING EVERY WHERE YOU LOOK IN THE WORLD today.

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


The European Unity has not selected a single dictator, BUT THEY WILL, probably sooner than you think.
And the Statue will be complete with the feet of Clay mixed with Iron. A sign that the Revived Roman Empire, is WEAKER that the Original.

A Pre-Tribulation Rapture Isn't Found In The Scripture, A False Teaching Of John N. DARBY & Adulterer C.I. Scofield

The day and hour that no man knows Matthew 25:13 below, that you put in bold red and underline is (The Second Coming) not a Pre-Trib Rapture that you falsely suggest

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 25:13KJV
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[VCO]

Zechariah 14 isn't a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as your chart claims, it's the (Eternal Kingdom)

Here is how wrong you can be:

Zechariah 14:9-10 (HCSB)
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem (from just north of Jerusalem, all the way south to just west of the south end of the Dead Sea.) will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.

WHY?

WHERE WILL EVERYONE WANT TO LIVE:

Zechariah 14:16-17(HCSB)
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship (in the 4th TEMPLE) the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
17 Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.

The Festival of Booths, REQUIRES YOU to Worship in the TEMPE twice during the Festival. YES, the Millenium is an EXTENSION of the JEWISH STYLE OF WORSHIP For ALL THE MORTALS. We will be in out Immortal Glorified Bodies. You have GOT to learn to READ the ENTIRE CONTEXT FIRST, then go back an read the Specific Parts that you are interested in. You will make fewer Reading Errors that way.

Millennial Kingdom Prophecied:

Rev 20:4 NKJV - 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received [his] mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a* thousand years.

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 227068


Here is how wrong you can be:

Zechariah 14:9-10 (HCSB)
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem (from just north of Jerusalem, all the way south to just west of the south end of the Dead Sea.) will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.

WHY?

WHERE WILL EVERYONE WANT TO LIVE:

Zechariah 14:16-17(HCSB)
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship (in the 4th TEMPLE) the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
17 Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.

The Festival of Booths, REQUIRES YOU to Worship in the TEMPE twice during the Festival. YES, the Millenium is an EXTENSION of the JEWISH STYLE OF WORSHIP For ALL THE MORTALS. We will be in out Immortal Glorified Bodies. You have GOT to learn to READ the ENTIRE CONTEXT FIRST, then go back an read the Specific Parts that you are interested in. You will make fewer Reading Errors that way.

Millennial Kingdom Prophecied:

Rev 20:4 NKJV - 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received [his] mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a* thousand years.

Sorry Zechariah 14 Is The "Eternal Kingdom", "After" (The Day Of The Lord) In Fire And Judgement, No Human Body Will Survive The Day Of The Lord, "Nobody"!

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The Eternal River Of Life

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

 

[Truth7t7]

View attachment 227068


Here is how wrong you can be:

Zechariah 14:9-10 (HCSB)
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem (from just north of Jerusalem, all the way south to just west of the south end of the Dead Sea.) will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.

WHY?

WHERE WILL EVERYONE WANT TO LIVE:

Zechariah 14:16-17(HCSB)
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship (in the 4th TEMPLE) the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
17 Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.

The Festival of Booths, REQUIRES YOU to Worship in the TEMPE twice during the Festival. YES, the Millenium is an EXTENSION of the JEWISH STYLE OF WORSHIP For ALL THE MORTALS. We will be in out Immortal Glorified Bodies. You have GOT to learn to READ the ENTIRE CONTEXT FIRST, then go back an read the Specific Parts that you are interested in. You will make fewer Reading Errors that way.

Millennial Kingdom Prophecied:

Rev 20:4 NKJV - 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received [his] mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a* thousand years.

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

 

[VCO]

A Pre-Tribulation Rapture Isn't Found In The Scripture, A False Teaching Of John N. DARBY & Adulterer C.I. Scofield

The day and hour that no man knows Matthew 25:13 below, that you put in bold red and underline is (The Second Coming) not a Pre-Trib Rapture that you falsely suggest

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 25:13KJV
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

I am Sick and Tired of being accused of being accused of being a John N. DARBY supoorter. I have Never read a single artical that he had written. I do not agree with TWO of his 5 point theory. I am totally disqualified to be a Calvinist, and totally disqualified to be a Armenian, TOO. So what do you call me ? ? ? How about an ordinary Christian ? ? ? A
nd not part of either of those Prideful Groups. Besides, we evangelicals BURIED "the Calvinist and Armenian ARGUMENT", back in the 80's and someone like you keeps trying to dig that smell corpse up.

><> ><> ><>

I Got news for you, HE comes in the clouds to have the Archangel CALL US OUT as a MAN coming to seek HIS BRIDE.

THEN HE COMES AS KING OF KINGs TO SET Foot on the EARTH at the MOUNT OF OLIVES. It says SO.

Zechariah 14:4-5 (HCSB)
4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.

WHY ? ? ? To Save THE 144,000 FROM ANIALATION, giving them an escape route.

One event happens in the Blink of an EYE. = the RAPTURE

And another event happens so slowly, that all the World's Armies have time to gather at the Valley of Megiddo. = The Second COMING.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (HCSB)
51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.

REMEMBER, Son of Man, is the BRIDEGROOM coming near to snatch HIS bride away.

Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.


Second Coming, Happens so slowly, all the world's armies have time to gather in the Valley of Megiddo.

Revelation 19:14-21 (NCV)
14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses.
15 Out of the rider’s mouth comes a sharp sword that he will use to defeat the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will crush out the wine in the winepress of the terrible anger of God the Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his upper leg was written this name: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he called with a loud voice to all the birds flying in the sky: “Come and gather together for the great feast of God
18 so that you can eat the bodies of kings, generals, mighty people, horses and their riders, and the bodies of all people—free, slave, small, and great.“
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth. Their armies were gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who did the miracles for the beast. The false prophet had used these miracles to trick those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his idol. The false prophet and the beast were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
21 And their armies were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds ate the bodies until they were full.


I realize, MANY you want to REJECT that CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST TO GO TO THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB.

Perhaps, coming to HIM Mourning your SIN, and complete surrender TO HIM is the PROBLEM.

BUT I ALREADY HAVE MY INVITE TO THE WEDDING, IN MY HEART, and I WILL BE THERE.

READ THIS VERSE BEFORE YOU GO!

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

 

[Truth7t7]

I am Sick and Tired of being accused of being accused of being a John N. DARBY supoorter. I have Never read a single artical that he had written. I do not agree with TWO of his 5 point theory. I am totally disqualified to be a Calvinist, and totally disqualified to be a Armenian, TOO. So what do you call me ? ? ? How about an ordinary Christian ? ? ? A
nd not part of either of those Prideful Groups. Besides, we evangelicals BURIED "the Calvinist and Armenian ARGUMENT", back in the 80's and someone like you keeps trying to dig that smell corpse up.

><> ><> ><>

I Got news for you, HE comes in the clouds to have the Archangel CALL US OUT as a MAN coming to seek HIS BRIDE.

THEN HE COMES AS KING OF KINGs TO SET Foot on the EARTH at the MOUNT OF OLIVES. It says SO.

Zechariah 14:4-5 (HCSB)
4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.

WHY ? ? ? To Save THE 144,000 FROM ANIALATION, giving them an escape route.

One event happens in the Blink of an EYE. = the RAPTURE

And another event happens so slowly, that all the World's Armies have time to gather at the Valley of Megiddo. = The Second COMING.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (HCSB)
51 Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
53 For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.

REMEMBER, Son of Man, is the BRIDEGROOM coming near to snatch HIS bride away.

Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.


Second Coming, Happens so slowly, all the world's armies have time to gather in the Valley of Megiddo.

Revelation 19:14-21 (NCV)
14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, were following him on white horses.
15 Out of the rider’s mouth comes a sharp sword that he will use to defeat the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will crush out the wine in the winepress of the terrible anger of God the Almighty.
16 On his robe and on his upper leg was written this name: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he called with a loud voice to all the birds flying in the sky: “Come and gather together for the great feast of God
18 so that you can eat the bodies of kings, generals, mighty people, horses and their riders, and the bodies of all people—free, slave, small, and great.“
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth. Their armies were gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who did the miracles for the beast. The false prophet had used these miracles to trick those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his idol. The false prophet and the beast were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
21 And their armies were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds ate the bodies until they were full.


I realize, MANY you want to REJECT that CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST TO GO TO THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB.

Perhaps, coming to HIM Mourning your SIN, and complete surrender TO HIM is the PROBLEM.

BUT I ALREADY HAVE MY INVITE TO THE WEDDING, IN MY HEART, and I WILL BE THERE.

READ THIS VERSE BEFORE YOU GO!

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Sorry but you Promote the teachings of John N. Darby & Adulterer C.I. Scofield In a (Pre-Trib Rapture) not found in scripture, their teachings are known as (Dispensationalism)

As you have been clearly shown, Zechariah Chapter 14 Is (The Day Of The Lord) and the kingdom seen is after the Lords fire in judgement, the river of life, eternal light, and those that are left of the nations were written in the book of life.

There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth, Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving the heavens and earth by fire.

Its gonna be the (Eternal) New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, at the return of Jesus Christ

 

[VCO]

Truth7t7


I give two warning before I put you my IGNORE LIST. So this is your first official warning.

Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

The day and hour that no man knows Matthew 25:13 below, that you put in bold "pink" and underline is (The Second Coming) not a Pre-Trib Rapture that you falsely suggest

Matthew 24:36KJV
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 25:13KJV
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth7t7


I give two warning before I put you my IGNORE LIST. So this is your first official warning.

Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

In this thread, I believe you have been warned several times, take heed to the truth of Gods words presented.

1. There will be no Pre-Trib Rapture

2. There will be no Millennial Kingdom on this earth

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth7t7


I give two warning before I put you my IGNORE LIST. So this is your first official warning.

Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

P.S. Another Warning, You Might Consider Gods Words In The KJV, The NIV You Quote Has Removed (Lucifer) In Isaiah 14:12 & Changed Satan Into The Morning Star (Jesus Christ) As Seen In Revelation 22:16 (Beware)

Isaiah 14:12KJV
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Lucifer/Satan Isn't The Morning Star

Isaiah 14:12NIV
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!

Jesus Christ Is The Morning Star

Revelation 22:16KJV
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[Evmur]

Both sides believe that


That is mat 24 COMING ON HORSES.

Mat 24 also has the rapture.
It starts out "before the flood"

So right there you have 2 appearances.

coming on horses is not coming in the clouds with great power and glory

There is only one such coming ... it comes "after the tribulation of those days"

 

[Evmur]

OF COURSE He is coming after the trib.' Rev. 19 shows this coming. But 1 Thes. 4 shows a previous coming - but only to the clouds.

Folks can't distinguish between Tribulation and God's wrath.

Tribulation comes from the world "in the world you will have tribulation"
God's wrath is poured out upon the tribulators, those who have opposed the church.

Tribulation, or persecution as it should be called, occurs before the Rap
God's wrath occurs occurs after the Rap.

 

[Truth7t7]

Folks can't distinguish between Tribulation and God's wrath.

Tribulation comes from the world "in the world you will have tribulation"
God's wrath is poured out upon the tribulators, those who have opposed the church.

Tribulation, or persecution as it should be called, occurs before the Rap
God's wrath occurs occurs after the Rap.

God's Wrath!

Revelation 16:19-20KJV
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

 

[Runningman]

Not at all, only in your mind. Good luck with your theory.

2 Peter 3:3-4 (HCSB)
3 First, be aware of this: Scoffers will come in the last days to scoff, living according to their own desires,
4 saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? Ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation.”


Where have you been, the FALLING AWAY IS HAPPENING EVERY WHERE YOU LOOK IN THE WORLD today.

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


The European Unity has not selected a single dictator, BUT THEY WILL, probably sooner than you think.
And the Statue will be complete with the feet of Clay mixed with Iron. A sign that the Revived Roman Empire, is WEAKER that the Original.

Good morning,

Falling away comes first, then the anti-Christ, then the return of Christ and our gathering to Him. It's all right there in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. Matthew 24:29-31 says Jesus returns immediately after the tribulation to gather His elect.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes, I'm going with the straight forward definitions and words the translators used to make the reading comprehension clear and concise. They didn't mince any words here and used the most precise English translation for easy digestion.
What he added attempts to undermine what professional linguists and scholars have produced for our Bible reading.

There's also what we're witnessing here right now which is essentially an effort to redefine what 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 states in nearly all Bible versions by changing the definition of Greek words.

The return of Christ and our gathering to Him (rapture) does not occur until after the falling away (apostasy of the church) and the man of sin (anti-Christ) is revealed. This means Jesus Christ returns after the great tribulation has started:

NOWHERE in verse 1 is the word "RETURN"

YOU have INJECTED that "idea" INTO v.1... which word is simply NOT THERE IN THE TEXT.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

There is NO word "RETURN" in that verse, as you CHANGED IT to be saying.

Yet you accuse others of doing that very thing.

Verse 1 is NOT speaking of the same thing that Lk12:36 and Lk19:12,15,17,19 ("RETURN" word actually being in those biblical texts: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..."; etc)

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The text (per the Greek) is "IS HERE / IS PRESENT [perfect indicative]"... The false conveyors were purporting that something IS ALREADY HERE, IS ALREADY PRESENT (not "at hand," nor "soon," nor "upcoming"... not that idea at all).

[see LISTING of occurrences at RIGHT SIDE] - https://biblehub.com/greek/1764.htm [and where "V-RIA-3S" SHOWS "R" (PERFECT tense) and "I" (indicative)]

The "verb" of a sentence should not be understood as if in a listing of vocabulary words, but as to what it means with the rest of the sentence.

The false conveyors were NOT suggesting that "JESUS *is here*"... NOR that "His SECOND COMING *is here*... NOR that THE RAPTURE/GATHERING *is here*... NOR that "the KINGDOM *is here*"

WHAT they WERE purporting (and that was EASY for the Thessalonians to be persuaded was TRUE) was, "that the DAY OF THE LORD *is here* (the "TIME-PERIOD" that THEY "KNOW PERFECTLY" will "ARRIVE" like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman in labor/with child, JUST LIKE JESUS HAD TALKED ABOUT, in HIS phrase "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" speaking of more than merely the INITIAL ONE, but the beginning of the SET OF THEM, at the START of a specific "TIME-PERIOD," NOT at the END OF IT, as you all are TRYING to INJECT into the idea being expressed in v.2 !!

It's not [the false conveyors were not] speaking of WHAT *you* think they were [His Second Coming / "RETURN" (to the earth, REV19). NO!]... They were NOT talking about THAT *point-in-time* but of the very negative TIME-PERIOD that PRECEDES IT and LEADS UP TO it!!

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except [...]

"that day" (the "time-period" FROM V.2! that the false conveyors were purporting "IS HERE")... the one that the Thessalonians WELL-UNDERSTOOD the MANNER of its ARRIVAL (just like JESUS HAD TOLD ABOUT, as the STARTING-POINT OF "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]"... not the very end of all THOSE having been unfolded and been completed (at His SECOND COMING / "RETURN" to the earth...) NO, that is NOT what v.2 has the false conveyors purporting / alleging... but rather its STARTING-AND-HAVING-BEGUN-TO unfold upon the earth: "the day of the Lord [time-period of JUDGMENTs] IS HERE / IS PRESENT"... THAT's what they were purporting/alleging, and what was so "troubling" / "shaken-in-mind"-worthy! (per v.2) NOT "Christ's RETURN" (IS HERE, or IS AT HAND--neither...They were NOT speaking of HIS RETURN, but of "the day of the Lord" TIME-PERIOD which ARRIVES PRIOR TO *that* point-in-time/PRIOR TO His Second Coming/RETURN!

 

[Absolutely]

coming on horses is not coming in the clouds with great power and glory

There is only one such coming ... it comes "after the tribulation of those days"

That is rev 19
The second coming on white horses

 

[Absolutely]

Folks can't distinguish between Tribulation and God's wrath.

Tribulation comes from the world "in the world you will have tribulation"
God's wrath is poured out upon the tribulators, those who have opposed the church.

Tribulation, or persecution as it should be called, occurs before the Rap
God's wrath occurs occurs after the Rap.

Tribulation is trouble

Wrath has tribulation in it automatically.

I understand what the wrath/ tribulation argument is.

The entire 7 years has wrath/ tribulation.

 

[Absolutely]

Truth7t7


I give two warning before I put you my IGNORE LIST. So this is your first official warning.

Titus 3:10-11 (NIV)
10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.
11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

You may as well do it.

He and runningman are here as intentionally obtuse.

They are making sport of anyone pretrib

Have very little bible in either one of them and refuse or omit ANY RAPTURE VERSES.

I have repeatedly challenged them or any postrib to show me one verse pointing to a postrib rapture.

Crickets