Holy Spirit baptism and eternal salvation

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wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#1
Feb 24, 2009
3,230
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113
New Zealand
#1
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#2
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#2
Which verse says anyone was eternally secure before Acts 2 ?
wattie said:
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
Click to expand...
Where does it say anyone was eternally secure before Acts 2 ?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#3
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#3
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were SEALED with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1 . 13

Eph 4.30
30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are SEALED ( Duration ? ) unto the day of redemption.

No water here .
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
1cor 13
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#4
wattie said:
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
Click to expand...
An interesting study is Matthew 3 about the narrative of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. The baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire are two entirely separate things.

Those who have the Holy Spirit baptism are essentially marked and labeled as wheat to be gathered into the barn. Those who have the baptism of fire are useless chaff destined for the fire.

This sort of imagery and language also parallels the language used in the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13. The wheat are the children of the kingdom destined for heaven, the tares are children of the devil destined for fire.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is therefore a sign of having salvation.

We're baptized with the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ by having faith in Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#5
Mar 18, 2021
5,300
3,129
113
#5
wattie said:
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
Click to expand...
There is no connection. I was baptised in the HS 3 years after I was born again. Some people are baptised in the HS the same time as they are born again. No one is baptised in the HS before they are born again.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#6
#6
wattie said:
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
Click to expand...
There is not. That is a Pentecostal doctrine that came about in the early 1900. It was never the position of the church.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#7
#7
The apostles recieved the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them and said recieve the Holy Spirit.
Then later he told them to go and wait and in a few day the Holy Spirit will come upon them with power and that is what you see in Pentecost event of Acts.
 
L

lamad

Well-known member
#8
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
107
63
#8
wattie said:
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
Click to expand...
If anyone is willing to put in the study time, EVERY TIME the filling with the Holy Spirit or the baptism in the Holy Spirit in mentioned in acts, it is ALWAYS the Holy Spirit "on" or "Upon" and never "within."

When a believer gets the Holy Spirit within - in their spirit man or woman - that is the new birth. But Acts shows us that AFTER the New Birth, one can receive the Holy Spirit UPON as the anointing. These are two separate works of the Holy Spirit for two separate purposes. The first is to bring us into the Body of Christ on earth, some call "regeneration" or God creating and New human spirit. The second is to be anointed as Jesus was and as the 120 in the upper room were.

Next, ask yourself if you could ask another believer the question Paul ask those on Ephesus: "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" Many people cannot ask such a question because it would clash with their belief - yet Paul asked it.

Then study acts 8 and acts 19 when people received this mighty baptism and ask yourself: when were they born again. When were they baptized in water? When did they receive this Holy Spirit upon?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#9
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#9
The Holy Spirits essential role in the new birth is open to those who have received the gift of Gods grace. If it is hidden it is hidden from the scorners and skeptics.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Plenty of evidence for those who seek.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
L

lamad

Well-known member
#10
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
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63
#10
notuptome said:
The Holy Spirits essential role in the new birth is open to those who have received the gift of Gods grace. If it is hidden it is hidden from the scorners and skeptics.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Plenty of evidence for those who seek.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Roger, that was a great post, speaking of regeneration, but it did not speak of the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit as written in Acts 1, and the Holy Spirit coming upon people as the anointing.
 
Kolistus

Kolistus

Well-known member
#11
Feb 3, 2020
538
276
63
#11
lamad said:
Next, ask yourself if you could ask another believer the question Paul ask those on Ephesus: "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" Many people cannot ask such a question because it would clash with their belief - yet Paul asked it.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting verse, I would not ask such a thing either as Ephesians 1:13 says you get the Spirit when you believe.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#12
May 23, 2012
13,007
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#12
Blackpowderduelist said:
There is not. That is a Pentecostal doctrine that came about in the early 1900. It was never the position of the church.
Click to expand...
that is not true it is found in the Gospels mainly luke and the book of Acts. in addition historically the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are well documented up until the dark ages when the Gospel was too not seen. There is a history of the Church being silent until what was know as awakenings and guess what Just as it was on the day of Pentacost and for the early church God healed, filled, and saved and delivered and called.

Try studying without a bias of real Church History and the Move of God. If it was found out that John Calvin was or had spoken in tongues I'm sure he would be called a heretic and devil worshiper by some here.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#13
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#13
lamad said:
Roger, that was a great post, speaking of regeneration, but it did not speak of the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit as written in Acts 1, and the Holy Spirit coming upon people as the anointing.
Click to expand...
There is a mighty big difference between baptism of the Holy Spirit unto eternal life and fillings of the Holy Spirit to minister in the gospel.

Souls are saved everyday all around the world without the great fanfare that many seek in this day in age. There is rejoicing in heaven when even a single soul comes to know Christ as Savior.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#14
#14
wattie said:
I have been seeing a lot of posts about baptism with the Holy Spirit and I dont see where it is connected to being eternally saved in scripture.

The disciples were told by Jesus He would baptise them with the Holy Spirit but they would have been saved eternally before the occurence in Acts.

1 Corinthians 12:13 is a classic one for HS baptism being associated with receiving eternal life but the 'body' here in context is the local assembly at Corinth.

'Ye are the body of Christ...'

The 'ye' is the church at Corinth.

So this looks like water baptism rather than Holy Spirit baptism.

Then you have the Holy Spirit empowering groups of believers through the book of Acts. This could be Holy Spirit baptism..but it isn't receiving eternal life either.

So I would like to know the connection between HS baptism and receiving eternal life because I just cant see it there
Click to expand...

When you read all of the accounts in the book of Acts you see that they were saved before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit (like the day of Pentecost) was to receive power to be a witness not forgiveness of sins.

There is a justification by faith that occurs and a work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit that happens first. Then the baptism of the Holy Spirit is to receive power to be a witness. Power for ministry.

There is a big difference between the preaching ministry of those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit and those who don't believe in this. Many reformed preachers have good rhetoric and intellectual preaching skills but this will never substitute for the baptism of the Holy Spirit empowered preaching ministry which will cut to the heart and produce results like Peter on the day of Pentecost. It is not something you can produce with words alone, but must be done with the POWER of God.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#15
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#15
Scribe said:
When you read all of the accounts in the book of Acts you see that they were saved before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit (like the day of Pentecost) was to receive power to be a witness not forgiveness of sins.

There is a justification by faith that occurs and a work of regeneration by the Holy Spirit that happens first. Then the baptism of the Holy Spirit is to receive power to be a witness. Power for ministry.

There is a big difference between the preaching ministry of those who are baptized in the Holy Spirit and those who don't believe in this. Many reformed preachers have good rhetoric and intellectual preaching skills but this will never substitute for the baptism of the Holy Spirit empowered preaching ministry which will cut to the heart and produce results like Peter on the day of Pentecost. It is not something you can produce with words alone, but must be done with the POWER of God.
Click to expand...
Scripture teaches those who will hear that it is the foolishness of preaching which pleases God. 1 Cor 1:18-21

It is through hearing the word of God that faith is produced. Romans 10:17

The Holy Spirit need not be visible to accomplish the great works of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#16
#16
notuptome said:
Scripture teaches those who will hear that it is the foolishness of preaching which pleases God. 1 Cor 1:18-21

It is through hearing the word of God that faith is produced. Romans 10:17

The Holy Spirit need not be visible to accomplish the great works of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
Spirit Empowered Preaching of the Word is the difference. Paul made that clear on several occasions.

1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

People can repeat the same words Peter preached on the day of Pentecost and nothing happen. Someone baptized in the Holy Ghost can preach them and 3000 get saved.

I often hear testimonies about people who visit different evangelical churches and settle for one that believes in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They say "there is just something about the preaching and the people there" this is because they notice the difference. The power of God is real. People know when it is missing.

But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
#17
Holy Spirit Baptism

Romans 6. God baptizes us into Christs death and burial where our sins are washed away
Col 2. The spiritual circumcision done by the hand of God completed by being baptized by the one who raised him from the dea
1 Cor 12. Baptized by God into the body of Christ
Gal 3. Baptized By God into Christ.

Paul speaks in titus 3 about the washing and renewal of the Holy Spirit. This washing of the spirit is the baptism of the spirit

No one is saved apart from baptism of the spirit
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#18
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#18
Gideon300 said:
There is no connection. I was baptised in the HS 3 years after I was born again. Some people are baptised in the HS the same time as they are born again. No one is baptised in the HS before they are born again.
Click to expand...
Where does Paul say this?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#19
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#19
So much confusion coming from wrongjy applying the book of Acts and making Doctrines out of a transitional book . Look for where it teaches what you believe in the epistles. This is where we find our instruction and settled teaching for the church , Not Acts . We need to learn and understand what happened during the transitions in Acts but not to make pet doctrines out of it .
 
L

lamad

Well-known member
#20
Apr 14, 2021
1,293
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#20
Kolistus said:
That is an interesting verse, I would not ask such a thing either as Ephesians 1:13 says you get the Spirit when you believe.
Click to expand...
Don't you find it strange that the Apostle Paul could ask it and you could not? It is because Paul knew the baptism of or in the Holy Spirit comes after someone is born again, as the anointing. Yes, people get the Holy Spirit INSIDE as the seal of the Holy Spirit and guarantee of heaven, but Paul knew the mighty baptism of the Holy Spirit comes ON or UPON, not in. The purpose also is different. The Holy Spirit for salvation creates a new Human spirit for HIm to reside in. But the Holy Spirit UPON comes upon our flesh for POWER.

If you study Acts 8 and Acts 19 when people receive, you will discover, they hear the word, they get born again, they get baptized in water, and THEN they receive the mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit. Note that Paul WROTE Ephesians!
 
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