If the papacy is the first beast, why don't we consider the spanish inquisition to be the second?

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pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

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#1
Jan 21, 2021
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spanish inquisition
1 November 1478 - 15 July 1834

They were all about killing whoever didn't worship the image of the beast:

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#2
Jun 30, 2015
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Have you established that the papacy is the first beast? If not, how can we answer your question?
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

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#3
Dino246 said:
Have you established that the papacy is the first beast? If not, how can we answer your question?
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Are you unfamiliar with the early history of the papacy? satan obviously had authority of it.

-------------------------------------------

There is something really weird about the disband date: 15 July 1834

half the year and half the month ..maybe related to "time, and times, and half a time"
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

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Dec 20, 2017
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The papacy is not the beast. Scofield reference material is not the Bible.
 
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Blackpowderduelist

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#5
#5
I don't know that we call the papacy the first beast. I know for sure he is an antichrist.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

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#9
Matthew 24:15-16​
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )​
​
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:​

Is the holy place in us? Is the abomination of desolation, satan's perception?
​
Mark 13:13-4​
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.​
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14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:​
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

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#10
#10
pittsburghjoe said:
The first beast evolves into the papacy. There was a little horn with a human face that pops up on the beast.
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Yeah, I'm not so sure that is what's being said there.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#11
Jul 2, 2011
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Helo. Living in I have had quite a number of surprises in learning about the black legend of Spain, that is that famous Inquisition.
If one were to note all of the Spanish surnames which are rooted in Judaism, they would be amazed.
As for killing Jews, I have read that as many as twenty million Jews were killed in that Inquisition. Now, back in 1492 there were hardly 20 million people in Europe, so that figure is quite a stretch.
I see many chuirches and cathedrals with the Star of David in the decofr. It shows up mainly in stained galss windows, the framing.
Remember that in a war the first victim is truth. There have been many wars and powers since 1492.
I am not nor have I ever been RCC, I read the Word and believe it.
It would be woderful if those passing on these historical tidbits would first study the history pruported in their teaching.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#12
Mar 12, 2015
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#12
pittsburghjoe said:
spanish inquisition
1 November 1478 - 15 July 1834

They were all about killing whoever didn't worship the image of the beast:

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Click to expand...
Good day, pittsburghjoe,

Regarding the image of the beast, which the second beast, aka the false prophet, has the inhabitants of the earth make, I personally believe that this is synonymous with the abomination spoken of in Daniel 9:27 which the ruler/antichrist will set up in the holy place within the coming temple.

We have to keep in mind, that John was seeing technology of the future which he has nothing to compare to from his time period. Therefore, when he says that 'he had power to give life to the image of the beast' it may be that the image of the beast will actually house a computer system, with the outer casing being a representation of the first beast. That said, when in his vision, John hears the image speak, he may have been hearing a computer generated voice like that found in our cars, phones and other devices. If that was the case, then by John hearing this image speaking, he would attribute it to being alive and that again because he would know nothing about computer language programs. What do you think that John would have concluded if he heard a car or a phone speaking?

1st beast = antichrist (with the angel from the Abyss being the spiritual power behind him)

2nd beast = false prophet (most likely one of the future popes)
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

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#13
Jan 21, 2021
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#13
JaumeJ said:
Helo. Living in I have had quite a number of surprises in learning about the black legend of Spain, that is that famous Inquisition.
If one were to note all of the Spanish surnames which are rooted in Judaism, they would be amazed.
As for killing Jews, I have read that as many as twenty million Jews were killed in that Inquisition. Now, back in 1492 there were hardly 20 million people in Europe, so that figure is quite a stretch.
I see many chuirches and cathedrals with the Star of David in the decofr. It shows up mainly in stained galss windows, the framing.
Remember that in a war the first victim is truth. There have been many wars and powers since 1492.
I am not nor have I ever been RCC, I read the Word and believe it.
It would be woderful if those passing on these historical tidbits would first study the history pruported in their teaching.
Click to expand...
I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. You sure make the inquisition sound like the second beast to me. Jews wouldn't be worshiping the image of what the RCC is promoting.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#14
Mar 12, 2015
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Blackpowderduelist said:
Yeah, I'm not so sure that is what's being said there.
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The little horn who speaks boastful words against God, as described in Daniel, is the same as the first beast, who speaks boastful words in Revelation 13, both representing the antichrist.

Daniel 7:8
"While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully."

Compare:

Revelation 13:5-6
"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven."

Daniel 7:11
"Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

Compare:

Revelation 19:20
"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on his behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

The first beast is the antichrist and does not represent the papacy. It is the woman who rides the beast that represents the papacy and that last day religious system, which is Roman Catholicism. She is the one who sits on seven hills/mountains and she is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel.
 
pittsburghjoe

pittsburghjoe

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#15
Ahwatukee said:
Revelation 19:20
"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on his behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

The first beast is the antichrist and does not represent the papacy. It is the woman who rides the beast that represents the papacy and that last day religious system, which is Roman Catholicism. She is the one who sits on seven hills/mountains and she is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel.
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The Christian Church is usually "her" in the Bible. She doesn't "ride" the beast, she is carried by it ..the RCC.

Being thrown alive into the fiery lake can mean their corrupted spirits.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#16
Mar 12, 2015
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#16
pittsburghjoe said:
I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. You sure make the inquisition sound like the second beast to me. Jews wouldn't be worshiping the image of what the RCC is promoting.
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The beast, though used to represent a kingdom, is also used to represent a person. The man of lawlessness is the one who will establish that seven year covenant in part with Israel, who is also called the antichrist by John. He will be a literal human being, as will the second beast which is the false prophet. The beast however is that angel who is currently in the Abyss, where at the sounding of the 5th trumpet will come out with his demons who resemble locusts and will be the spiritual power behind the man of lawlessness.

The best way to understand this is by looking at the examples in scripture. In Daniel 10, we have the angel Gabriel being sent to Daniel as soon as he began to pray. But Gabriel tells Daniel that he was kept from getting to Daniel for 21 days by the prince of Persia who opposed him. Now, we know that Gabriel is mighty angel and that the human prince of Persia and his army could not keep him from reaching Daniel. What he was talking about was the prince of Persia in the spiritual realm, referring to those fallen angels/demons who were a power behind the human prince of Persia and his army.

The beast is described as the beast who:

Once was = He was once out in the world and the power behind some other human ruler

Now is not = He is currently not in the world but is now in the Abyss

And yet will come = He will again come out of the Abyss and will be the power behind the first beast/antichrist.

"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

"Now when they (two witnesses) have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction."
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#17
Mar 12, 2015
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#17
pittsburghjoe said:
I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. You sure make the inquisition sound like the second beast to me. Jews wouldn't be worshiping the image of what the RCC is promoting.
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You are correct in that, the Jews will not worship the image of the beast. When the antichrist makes his seven year covenant with Israel, the abomination/image will not be in the temple at that time. It is not until after the beast is released from the Abyss that the antichrist causes the sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that image/abomination up in the temple and which will be the reason why Israel will flee out into the wilderness to that place prepared for her by God for 1260 days. It is during this 1260 days (last 3 1/2 years) that the antichrist/beast will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#18
Mar 12, 2015
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#18
pittsburghjoe said:
The Christian Church is usually "her" in the Bible. She doesn't "ride" the beast, she is carried by it ..the RCC.

Being thrown alive into the fiery lake can mean their corrupted spirits.
Click to expand...
Israel is also referred to as 'the woman' in Revelation 12. And the woman who rides the beast is also referred to as her. The church is not even on the earth while all of this is going on, because it takes place and is part of the time of God's wrath.

The fiery lake of fire is just another way of saying the lake of fire, which is revealed in the following scripture:

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The lake of fire is a physical, literal place of never ending fire and was prepared for Satan and his angels. Anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life, will also end up in there.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

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#19
#19
Ahwatukee said:
The little horn who speaks boastful words against God, as described in Daniel, is the same as the first beast, who speaks boastful words in Revelation 13, both representing the antichrist.

Daniel 7:8
"While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully."

Compare:

Revelation 13:5-6
"The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven."

Daniel 7:11
"Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

Compare:

Revelation 19:20
"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on his behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

The first beast is the antichrist and does not represent the papacy. It is the woman who rides the beast that represents the papacy and that last day religious system, which is Roman Catholicism. She is the one who sits on seven hills/mountains and she is that city that ruled over the kings of the earth at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel.
Click to expand...
But ya can't deny that the pope claims authority of Christ, and has people kissing his ring
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#20
Mar 12, 2015
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#20
Blackpowderduelist said:
But ya can't deny that the pope claims authority of Christ, and has people kissing his ring
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I agree! But my point is that the second beast he is not the antichrist, but will play the part of the false prophet. He will be the one who will perform those miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the first beast/antichrist and that to give him credibility as the one who will be proclaiming to be God.
 
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