Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Thats right. But in the OT the NT church was not revealed. Only since Pentecost, the believer get the Holy Spirit living inside permanently. And before Pentecost was no body of Christ what we call church today.

The Holy Spirit never left David, Joshua, Caleb, Moses, king Josiah, Abraham . . . etc. None of the Patriarchs went back and forth from having Circumcised Hearts to uncircumcised Hearts.

 

[cv5]

For those looking for mature scrupulous exegesis on the matter....read on.

http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/54-14

http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/54-15

http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/54-16

http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/54-17

No one has listen to this sermon series? Wow that's too bad. I listen to the entire four hours in the last couple of days. It certainly cleared the fog out of my mind let me tell you. MacArthur starts from Genesis all the way thru Old Testament all the way thru the epistles. In doing so he covers every single female figure in the Bible that has anything to do with this outstanding question of female pastors.

Very enlightening. And the bottom line is that no, there are no female pastors, bishops or elders in the Church in a duly constituted assembly. Nevertheless women MAY, outside of the assembly, witness and speak the gospel message to anyone and everyone!

 

[Aidan1]

She is pointed out first because she was the Gifted Teacher and this has been established by many, many scholars throughout church history, even F.F. Bruce and many others. It is not even questioned by serious scholars.

It is also not a question that Nympha was a woman. KJV was wrong. Read up on the discussion. There is not a single serious Greek Scholar and textual manuscript expert anywhere that believes KJV was correct in calling her a male.

That is almost every single English translation but the KJV says her.

Now here is where the intellectual dishonesty occurs. When those scholars who do not believe a woman should pastor concede that Nympha is a woman then they start to give reasons why she was not the pastor (with no evidence) just because she had a church in her house. But if it is a male that is mentioned with a church in his house they will say he was the pastor without any evidence.

She was a woman and she was most likely the spiritual leader of that church in her house as well. And she is not the only one. Read Paynes examples.

Douglas J. Moo's Article, "I Timothy 2:12-15; Meaning and Significance
https://womeninthechurch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Moo on 1 Timothy 2 vv 11-15.pdf

Philip B. Payne Libertarian Women in Ephesus: A Response to Douglas J. Moo's Article, "I Timothy 2:12-15; Meaning and Significance
https://womeninthechurch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Philip Payne Libertarian Women.PDF

Nope, the text says clear in his house.
And german bible, like Elberfelder says also in his house. Thats makes no sense, if Nymphas is a woman.

 

[Aidan1]

The Holy Spirit never left David, Joshua, Caleb, Moses, king Josiah, Abraham . . . etc. None of the Patriarchs went back and forth from having Circumcised Hearts to uncircumcised Hearts.

Then it makes no sense when Jesus said that he has to go to heaven for to send the Holy Spirit.(John 14,26; John 15,26;John 16,7-11)
You cant compare the conditions from the OT with the NT if you want to teach the truth.

 

[Aidan1]

The majority of Born again, believers who believe that the scriptures are the inspired word of God, and who are also Greek Scholar, textual manuscript experts, has weight, since it would make sense that most would come to the same conclusions if they were all following the rules of interpretation. I mean if they understood the reasons behind the question over translation of Greek in this case and they all agree that she was a woman it has weight. So until I am a Greek and manuscript expert I will need to lean on the expertise of others and if the majority or almost ALL agree on a translation it is a good indication that there is very strong evidence for it.

So your statement does not even apply to the context and is another example of how not to reason when it comes to translation and interpretations.

In germany the majority of bornagain believers 52% (coming out of freechurches, like Baptist ore mennonite)dont believe that Jesus is risen from the grave.
So God was not able to protect his scripture?
And again, the most Christian scholars in germany teaching according the textcritical theologie and even deny that Jesus is risen from the grave, but all studied greec very well. You are serious, i should believe them more then the scripture which I have in front of me?
And again col 4,15 is speaking from HIS and not HER. Any idea why?

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Then it makes no sense when Jesus said that he has to go to heaven for to send the Holy Spirit.(John 14,26; John 15,26;John 16,7-11)
You cant compare the conditions from the OT with the NT if you want to teach the truth.

Right, the Day of Pentecost is when the Spirit would be freely given to many in high numbers. But the Faith of Christ has always been the same. The Faith of Abraham is described perfectly in Colossians 2:9-15 . . . which is why Abraham is our Father of Faith. We must have his Faith . . . and none other . . . and we do not have Faith that flip flops.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

That is a wonderful well thought out reply.......BUT it still is only YOUR personal OPINION!

None......NONE of what you have posted answers or speaks to the literal words of God as seen in 1 Timothy 3:1-2...........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, HE desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach">

Does the Bible say MAN?????
Does the Bible that that that MAN.!!!!
Does the Bible say that the MAN should be the HUSBAND??????

THAT MY BROTHER is what is called FOUNDATIONAL!!!!!

It has NOTHING to do with being bullied or intimidated whatsoever but it has EVERYTHING to do with reading and obeying the Word of God.

Now if you would just put the Word of God ahead of your Pentecostal denominational stance you would be able to clearly see the difference.

This is almost laughable.
You are demonstrating a drastic lack of understanding concerning how language is used.
This is an older manner of speaking. You cannot base doctrine on misunderstanding of archaic language.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
1 Cor 5:17

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 12:32

^By your logic, according to the verses above, only men can be saved. Because the Bible says men!!

The ages of man
The religions of man
The tongues of men and angels - these all include men & women. Mankind, not the male human alone.




We will not go over for the umpteenth time the fact that the 'husband' reference is regarding the very well known
& heavily documented practice of polygamy.

 

[Truth7t7]

Let the brethren step up then, and let them be honourable and worthy. Unction for service is a tangible thing and if I see the unction of the Holy Spirit I count the one unctioned as neither male nor female ... neither did Paul.

Your claim is (False), Paul wrote specifically to the female gender (Women) and their role in the church below.

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[101G]

Thats correct, but this means still not that it is biblical that the woman becomes pastor/leader of a church.

if so then answer me this, 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;"
is this the Pastoral Gift, yes or No?

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[Dino246]

No one has listen to this sermon series? Wow that's too bad. I listen to the entire four hours in the last couple of days. It certainly cleared the fog out of my mind let me tell you. MacArthur starts from Genesis all the way thru Old Testament all the way thru the epistles. In doing so he covers every single female figure in the Bible that has anything to do with this outstanding question of female pastors.

Very enlightening. And the bottom line is that no, there are no female pastors, bishops or elders in the Church in a duly constituted assembly. Nevertheless women MAY, outside of the assembly, witness and speak the gospel message to anyone and everyone!

I too have listened to many hours (far more than four) of teaching on the subject, and read many thousands of pages on it. Still, we disagree.

I wonder what ridiculous assumptions and derogatory accusations you'll make in response this time.

 

[Dino246]

Your claim is (False), Paul wrote specifically to the female gender (Women) and their role in the church below.

You STILL haven't learned how to use brackets properly? Just how stubborn are you?

 

[Truth7t7]

Belligerence will not win this debate.

You Must Be Looking Into A Mirror Of Gods Words Below.

Willful Disobedience In Rebellion To Gods Words Below.

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Truth7t7]

You STILL haven't learned how to use brackets properly? Just how stubborn are you?

Teacher Help, Bully On The Playground!

 

[Aidan1]

Right, the Day of Pentecost is when the Spirit would be freely given to many in high numbers. But the Faith of Christ has always been the same. The Faith of Abraham is described perfectly in Colossians 2:9-15 . . . which is why Abraham is our Father of Faith. We must have his Faith . . . and none other . . . and we do not have Faith that flip flops.

Pentecost was the beginning of the worlwide church. Body of Christ. This was not before Pentecost.
So in this sense Abraham is not a member of the NT church.
And the theme of this thread is not faith.

 

[101G]

well, while we wait on the 1 Corinthians 12:8 answer from Aidan1. to all those other unbeliever of women in the pastoral Gift. the 1 Corinthians 12:28 question still stands to be answered." And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

women are prophets and God set them in his church in ordaining. and according to some, yet they cannot speak in the church.... well that's redundant, because prophet PREACH, and TEACH also. and clearly here in 1 Corinthians 12:8 God, not man, BUT GOD have set them IN, IN, IN, the Church, so that rebukes the nonesense that women... in General are to be silence in the churches. THAT'S A STRAIGHT OUT RIGHT CONTRADICTORY REBELLION AGANIST GOD APPROVAL OF WOMEN IN THE CHURCHES. that's a spirit of anti christ.

we suggest one re-examine 1 Corinthians 12:28, which destroys an woman being silence, in church.

this I will discuss with any unbeliever of women in church speaking.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[Truth7t7]

well, while we wait on the 1 Corinthians 12:8 answer from Aidan1. to all those other unbeliever of women in the pastoral Gift. the 1 Corinthians 12:28 question still stands to be answered." And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

women are prophets and God set them in his church in ordaining. and according to some, yet they cannot speak in the church.... well that's redundant, because prophet PREACH, and TEACH also. and clearly here in 1 Corinthians 12:8 God, not man, BUT GOD have set them IN, IN, IN, the Church, so that rebukes the nonesense that women... in General are to be silence in the churches. THAT'S A STRAIGHT OUT RIGHT CONTRADICTORY REBELLION AGANIST GOD APPROVAL OF WOMEN IN THE CHURCHES. that's a spirit of anti christ.

we suggest one re-examine 1 Corinthians 12:28, which destroys an woman being silence, in church.

this I will discuss with any unbeliever of women in church speaking.

PICJAG, 101G.

Pretty hard for a woman to have a (Bishop/Pastoral) gift, when they are (Commanded) to be silent in the church, unless they received the gift of (Sign Language)

Gods Words Are Very Clear On A Womans Role In The Church, And They Aren't Changing Anytime Soon.

Silence, Subjection, Obedience

(It Is A Shame For Women To Speak In The Church)

1 Timothy 2:11-14KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[101G]

Right, the Day of Pentecost is when the Spirit would be freely given to many in high numbers. But the Faith of Christ has always been the same. The Faith of Abraham is described perfectly in Colossians 2:9-15 . . . which is why Abraham is our Father of Faith. We must have his Faith . . . and none other . . . and we do not have Faith that flip flops.

you're correct, it is by Faith that we have access. and Abraham is the Father of Faith. he believe God, and that belief was, as you said fulfilled on Pentecost, wherein our Faith lay. for it is the "Holy Spirit", that builds our Faith, and he empower us in this endeavor. and in one of his GIFTS that he pours out is the Pastoral Gift, which was foretold by the Prophet Joel, by the Holy Ghost himself. for it was the Holy Ghost, JESUS, himself that moved these men to write.

so you're on Point and correct.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

Pretty hard for a woman to have a (Bishop/Pastoral) gift, when they are (Commanded) to be silent in the church, unless they received the gift of (Sign Language)

well they are speaking, in, in, in, the church, that's just showed your ignorance again, speaking is speaking sign language or not... lol.... so we can only suggest you better began to learn sign Language....

PICJAG.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Pentecost was the beginning of the worlwide church. Body of Christ. This was not before Pentecost.
So in this sense Abraham is not a member of the NT church.
And the theme of this thread is not faith.

Okie Doke.

 

[Aidan1]

well, while we wait on the 1 Corinthians 12:8 answer from Aidan1. to all those other unbeliever of women in the pastoral Gift. the 1 Corinthians 12:28 question still stands to be answered." And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

women are prophets and God set them in his church in ordaining. and according to some, yet they cannot speak in the church.... well that's redundant, because prophet PREACH, and TEACH also. and clearly here in 1 Corinthians 12:8 God, not man, BUT GOD have set them IN, IN, IN, the Church, so that rebukes the nonesense that women... in General are to be silence in the churches. THAT'S A STRAIGHT OUT RIGHT CONTRADICTORY REBELLION AGANIST GOD APPROVAL OF WOMEN IN THE CHURCHES. that's a spirit of anti christ.

we suggest one re-examine 1 Corinthians 12:28, which destroys an woman being silence, in church.

this I will discuss with any unbeliever of women in church speaking.

PICJAG, 101G.

Sorry brother, neither 1.Cor. 12,8 nor 1. Cor.12,28 is talking about woman can be Pastor/leader/eldest of the church.
You have to put your meaning into the text. But you cant get it out of the text.