Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Truth7t7]

All ministers are servants. None of them are to exercise their own authority. Servants are the path to God's authority in the kingdom of God. The more she demonstrated servanthood the more she would have been chosen by the body to serve as a leader. That's how it works.

2 Timothy 4:3-4KJV
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Phoebe wasn't a Bishop or Deaconess, women don't meet the qualifications, simple

The liberal agenda today has women and practicing homosexuals at the pulpits.

(Likewise) below meaning the same qualifications for Bishop/Pastor

1 Timothy 3:8-12KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.


Women are to remain silent in the church, let alone being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon

You aren't changing Gods words below, or my opinion of them, simple

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Scribe]

1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.

7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, a and to still another the interpretation of tongues. b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Unity and Diversity in the Body

12Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by c one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.

15Now if the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

21The eye cannot say to the hand, “I don’t need you!” And the head cannot say to the feet, “I don’t need you!” 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues d ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.


And yet I will show you the most excellent way.

What we want to do is operate in the Spirit by following the motivation of Love. This contribution to the body of Christ that I have must come from the Spirit. Or rather, It can ONLY come from the Spirit. I have nothing to offer that will result in the building of the body of Christ in unity and fellowship with the Son and each other that does NOT come from the Spirit.

This concept is easy to elude us if we read this chapter too fast or if we try to interpret it in the context of modern theological debates about continuationism vs ceasationism.

What Paul intended in using the many members, many gifts but all by One Spirit analogy was to show the importance of each part and this starts with me.

To think that I am important is no sin, but to thing that I am more important than another is. There is no virtue in going to far in the opposite direction and think that I am not important.

We are to think in reference to the SPIRIT working in us, and not in our own qualifications. The Spirit working in the woman, the Spirit working in the man, the most important thing to remember is that it is ONE SPIRIT and He is going to manifest his gifts in us as he DETERMINES. When that happens, we don't need to defend ourselves, He is sufficient to defend Himself.

My main goal here is to make sure that it is the Spirit working in me. Here I am Lord, use me for your glory. Step out in faith when the Spirit prompts you. To do this requires faith and faith overcomes fear.

 

[notuptome]

What we want to do is operate in the Spirit by following the motivation of Love. This contribution to the body of Christ that I have must come from the Spirit. Or rather, It can ONLY come from the Spirit. I have nothing to offer that will result in the building of the body of Christ in unity and fellowship with the Son and each other that does NOT come from the Spirit.

This concept is easy to elude us if we read this chapter too fast or if we try to interpret it in the context of modern theological debates about continuationism vs ceasationism.

What Paul intended in using the many members, many gifts but all by One Spirit analogy was to show the importance of each part and this starts with me.

To think that I am important is no sin, but to thing that I am more important than another is. There is no virtue in going to far in the opposite direction and think that I am not important.

We are to think in reference to the SPIRIT working in us, and not in our own qualifications. The Spirit working in the woman, the Spirit working in the man, the most important thing to remember is that it is ONE SPIRIT and He is going to manifest his gifts in us as he DETERMINES. When that happens, we don't need to defend ourselves, He is sufficient to defend Himself.

My main goal here is to make sure that it is the Spirit working in me. Here I am Lord, use me for your glory. Step out in faith when the Spirit prompts you. To do this requires faith and faith overcomes fear.

Sounds very religious and very noble.

The Holy Spirit does not work in conflict to Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Truth7t7]

What we want to do is operate in the Spirit by following the motivation of Love. This contribution to the body of Christ that I have must come from the Spirit. Or rather, It can ONLY come from the Spirit. I have nothing to offer that will result in the building of the body of Christ in unity and fellowship with the Son and each other that does NOT come from the Spirit.

This concept is easy to elude us if we read this chapter too fast or if we try to interpret it in the context of modern theological debates about continuationism vs ceasationism.

What Paul intended in using the many members, many gifts but all by One Spirit analogy was to show the importance of each part and this starts with me.

To think that I am important is no sin, but to thing that I am more important than another is. There is no virtue in going to far in the opposite direction and think that I am not important.

We are to think in reference to the SPIRIT working in us, and not in our own qualifications. The Spirit working in the woman, the Spirit working in the man, the most important thing to remember is that it is ONE SPIRIT and He is going to manifest his gifts in us as he DETERMINES. When that happens, we don't need to defend ourselves, He is sufficient to defend Himself.

My main goal here is to make sure that it is the Spirit working in me. Here I am Lord, use me for your glory. Step out in faith when the Spirit prompts you. To do this requires faith and faith overcomes fear.

A Beautiful Writing

But the fact is, women can't be Bishops/Pastors/Deacons, and they must remain silent in the church

 

[Dino246]

It can be translated as servant as well when in the context of a church office. Servant is the correct usage.

If the word is "servant" then it needs to be "servant" in 1 Timothy 3. If one insists that it must be "deacon" in 1 Timothy 3, then it must be "deacon" in Romans 16.

 

[Dino246]

See the feminists' movement...which is really been one of the main reasons for a county's downfall.

Feminism has nothing whatsoever to do with godly women seeking to exercise their God-given gifts.

 

[Truth7t7]

Feminism has nothing whatsoever to do with godly women seeking to exercise their God-given gifts.

Says who, Joyce Myers, & Paula White

Women are to remain silent in the church, let alone being a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon

You aren't changing Gods words below, or my opinion of them, simple

1 Corinthians 14:33-35KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

 

[Dino246]

Says who, Joyce Myers, & Paula White

I wouldn't know.

 

[Truth7t7]

I wouldn't know.

Your 100% correct, you don't know

 

[Dino246]

Your 100% correct, you don't know

Learn how to spell. I get tired of dealing with your elementary understanding of written English.

 

[John146]

If the word is "servant" then it needs to be "servant" in 1 Timothy 3. If one insists that it must be "deacon" in 1 Timothy 3, then it must be "deacon" in Romans 16.

The underlying Greek word in question is διακονον - diakonos. But it has several meanings. In the KJB it is translated as DEACON only twice and these are in 1 Timothy 3:8 and 12 where it refers to one of the offices in the local church. We have elders and deacons. But both were men who were to be married to godly wives.

The main meaning of the word is minister, meaning a servant, and the word SERVANT itself. It is used in such places as John 2:5 and 2:9 where Jesus turned the water into wine.

“His mother saith unto the SERVANTS, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.” John 2:5

“When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the SERVANTS which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom” John 2:9

The verb form of this word is diakoneo and it also means TO SERVE or to MINISTER - as in Hebrews 6:10 - “ For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that YE HAVE MINISTERED to the saints, and DO MINISTER.”

In John 12:26 both the verb and the noun are used, and are translated the same way in the NIV.

John 12:26 -“If any man SERVE me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my SERVANT be: if any man SERVE me, him will my Father honour.

The NIV itself translates the word diakonos as servant or servants some 20 times, minister 4 times, attendants once, and deacon 3 times.

The NIV had it right in the first 3 editions, but the latest 2011 NIV edition went off the rails by labeling a woman as a deacon.

Most Bibles throughout history have translated Romans 16:1 as “Phebe our sister, which is a SERVANT of the church which is at Cenchrea”. - or “minister” meaning a servant.

The NASB, ESV, NKJV, Holman Standard and NET versions all have “our sister Phoebe, A SERVANT of the church”

But there is a growing movement in these modern times to promote women to the place of leadership in the church by making them either Pastors or Deacons, especially in the more liberal churches - contrary to what the Bible teaches.

 

[Truth7t7]

Learn how to spell. I get tired of dealing with your elementary understanding of written English.

Bully On The Playground, Teacher Help!

 

[Major]

Major said:
I agree that women can teach, pray and worship and do all things, except Pastor a church either alone or as a co-pastor with her husband.

With all due respect, That idea is NOT Biblical but instead it is a denominational teaching to get around the directions given by Paul.

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12)

Verse 11 says, “Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.”
The Greek adversative “de” (“but” in English) links verse 12 back to 11. Paul wants women to learn in the entire submissiveness.

Some even say that the Greek words “gyne” (woman) and “andros” (man) mean wife and husband. This would render the verse as, “But I do not allow a wife to teach or exercise authority over a husband, but to remain quiet.” (1 Tim. 2:12). Supporters of this argument then conclude that this would not prevent a woman from being a pastor since this is not speaking of women in general but only wives in relation to their husbands. Is this argument sound? No, it isn’t.

WHY????

If a wife were a pastor and her husband were in the congregation, then when she taught, she’d be teaching her husband. This can’t work–unless the husband has to leave the church each time his wife teaches. Ridiculous? You bet!

In all of the 17 English translations of the Bible I have (Darby, ASV, ESV, HCSB, ISV, KJV, NASB95, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, WUESTNT, RSV, GNB, WorrelNT, YLT), none translate the verse as wife and husband, so why do people assert that it is about a husband and wife?
@Major,
first thanks for the reply, second, I must disagree with your assessment, but agree with the scriptures, and here's why.
A. the term woman there is a wife
G1135 γυνή gune (ǰ ï-nee') n.
1. a woman.
2. (specially) a wife.
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096
Compare: G1133, G435
See also: G1134, H802

note, definition #2. so the question, how do we know that it is a WIFE?, answer, 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
only a married woman, (a wife), suppose to be having children... so we know that it a wife.
now addressing being, "quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness". that is if she's ignorant of the word of God, then as a husband, his duite, (as head, first to lead), should instruct his wife. that's only if he know himself. now to address the, "If a wife were a pastor and her husband were in the congregation, then when she taught, she’d be teaching her husband. This can’t work–unless the husband has to leave the church each time his wife teaches. Ridiculous? You bet!".
this is based on ignorance of the scriptures, because not all husbands are christians, or even in the church. and if a man marries a woman who is a christian and in the church, well how is he going to teach her anything about God? ... well, see it now?. this only applies to a husband that is in the church and his wife is not. now lets put this ignorance to rest. was not Timothy mother a christian, and nationality Jewish, and his Father, Greek. now what if his Father was not a Christian? well how can his mother be taught by her husband? see the mistake, and error.
this is why the 1 Corinthians chapter 7 letter was written to address just these types of situations and conditions in the Church.

which bring me to 1 Corinthians 14:35 in my next post, to address this nonesense of women and wives in the church to be silence.

PICJAG,
101G

Remember.....you are not debating ME.

1 Timothy 3:1-2 is what yu are rejecting........
"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

Now you are wecome to come up with "Definition #1 or #2 or #35.......but the Word of is just as plain as th nose on your face.

This is NOT a denominational teaching at all. It is what the Scriptures LITERALLY say. YOU can accept them or reject them but you can not explain them away.

Good day!

 

[Major]

are you suggesting that teaching is asserting authority? Because it is not. A Teacher is not one of authority, a "teacher " is a gift to the church to edify, comfort, and exhort. IF you are suggesting a husband can not learn for his wife because that is her placing her authority over her husband that is absurd and unbiblical.

No sir. I am not saying that at all.

I said...........
"I agree that women can teach, pray and worship and do all things, except Pastor a church either alone or as a co-pastor with her husband. "

If there were not women who taght children's classes, and other women, there were not be a church today.

How many men do you know who taught 3rd and 4th graders and changed diapers in the nursery????

 

[MattforJesus]

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

This is the authority structure of God on earth, God, Christ, man, woman, angels.

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Angels are last in the authority structure and desire to look in to the salvation of the saints for the saints will have a higher position in heaven than that of the angels for the saints will have a glorified body like Jesus and rule and reign with Him in the millennial reign of Christ, and angels are ministering spirits to the saints.

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

It should be a male that should lead the congregation according to the authority structure of God, and when he is speaking he has the floor and no one should disrupt him which includes males being quiet too, but they might of had a problem with the women speaking which was disrupting the man in charge.

1Co 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
1Co 11:12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

In the spiritual realm there is no difference between a male and a female but they are the same for the only thing that separates a man and a woman is the flesh and the spirit and soul are the same, so when they put off the flesh they are the same, and their glorified body is the same so they are equal.

They do not marry in heaven for there is no gender but they are the same, and they are like the angels which have no gender for their angelic body is the same and are known by masculine names for they are greater than people while they are in the flesh.

A woman can do everything a man can do because they are equal in the Lord which she can preach, teach, and speak in Church when the time is right, give testimonies, sing and praise the Lord.

But a man should be the one to lead the congregation and when he has the floor nobody should interrupt him.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

When the preacher is done having the floor he can turn it over to the saints and they can add to the service for it is more edifying if the Church gets involved and not only input from the preacher, and this includes women for they are equal to a man in the Lord, and the man in charge is operating according to the authority structure when they are in the flesh, but in the Lord the woman is equal to the male preacher.

 

[Scribe]

Following the teaching of Paul in 1 Cor we must always ask ourselves... "what builds up the body of Christ?" The gifts of the Spirit that operate in the members seeks to build up the body of Christ. If an interpretation attempts to pull down a member who is building up the body of Christ we can know that it is a bad hermeneutic.

 

[101G]

Remember.....you are not debating ME.

1 Timothy 3:1-2 is what yu are rejecting........
"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

Now you are wecome to come up with "Definition #1 or #2 or #35.......but the Word of is just as plain as th nose on your face.

This is NOT a denominational teaching at all. It is what the Scriptures LITERALLY say. YOU can accept them or reject them but you can not explain them away.

Good day!

First thanks for the reply, second, I'm not debating anyone. I simply believe the scriptures, and not a man's interpertation of them. it just amaze me to see how people reading the same words, and without researching, and applying bibical concepts, arrive at different understanding.
it is clear that what we in the west calls offices is actually a work, which God do through his body. and this work is manifested in his Spiritual "Gifts". and it is clear, the first Gift listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8, is the Pastoral Gifts, "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;". and God's gifts are of no respect of person.

and if the members of his body is neither male and female, then one would know that it is God who ordains in his Chursh, and not men.

PICJAG,
101G

 

[bellemira]

1 Timothy 5:14KJV
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

Tutus 2:1-5KJV
1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

2 Timothy 4:3-4KJV
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Thou shalt not, as thou attemptest to push thine instruction into the shallow minds of we poor common folks, assign a silly appellation to the author of the middle quote of thy post.
Tut-tut!

 

[101G]

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1Co 11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

This is the authority structure of God on earth, God, Christ, man, woman, angels.

first thanks for the reply, and second, this is another scripture that has been taken out of Context. head here simply means "FIRST", or the "Source", and not authority. and here's why we say this. notice how titles are used? the head of Christ, is God, not the head of "JESUS", see the difference, the HEAD of the woman is man, for she came from man, now to understand this term "head", have one ever heard of the statement the "River Head?" it is sometimes a spring, meaning the "source" of the river is a Spring.
the term "head" here is no in authority.

to prove this out futher, "Christ is the HEAD of every man".... right,, notice EVERY MAN well is every man or woman in obedience or obeying God, the Lord Jesus .... right now as we speak? that's a easy question to answer, NO. sinners are not under his authority, for if they were then they would not be sinners.

so just in these few examples, we can see that head here is not in authority.

PICJAG,
101G

 

[Truth7t7]

Following the teaching of Paul in 1 Cor we must always ask ourselves... "what builds up the body of Christ?" The gifts of the Spirit that operate in the members seeks to build up the body of Christ. If an interpretation attempts to pull down a member who is building up the body of Christ we can know that it is a bad hermeneutic.

The Topic Is (Are Women Pastors Biblical) not building up the body of Christ in (Diversion)

A woman can't be a Bishop/Pastor/Deacon, and she is to remain silent in the church

I'm Aware this might be in opposition to the (Assembly Of God) where you are ordained

Building You Up In Truth, In Love!

Jesus Christ Is Lord