Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

[Reformed1689]

As I am a woman, you wouldn't accept my teaching anyway.

 

[tribesman]

Damned if you do damned if you don't, as the adage goes.

There have been reams of scripture posted on this subject.
In my experience here, no amount of posted scripture reference breaks through the doctrinal biases people hold.
As I am a woman, you wouldn't accept my teaching anyway.

Not many scriptures apart from the USUAL Gal. 3:28-29, which btw the queer theologians also LOVE to bring up. Not that they can read any make sense context into it, but they will yell and throw that scripture around. Sad that you call holding unto pauline doctrine "biased theology".

You - are - arguing - with - Paul, not me.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Not many scriptures apart from the USUAL Gal. 3:28-29, which btw the queer theologians also LOVE to bring up. Not that they can read any make sense context into it, but they will yell and throw that scripture around. Sad that you call holding unto pauline doctrine "biased theology".

You - are - arguing - with - Paul, not me.

I am not arguing with Paul or The Lord.
I'll leave it at that. I won't try reasoning with you again on this issue.

 

[tribesman]

As cancel culture would say, your male elitist privilege is showing! There was no male headship in the Garden of Eden. Eve was called an "ezer-warrior." She was equal to the man. In fact, besides the 2 references to the word Ezer for Eve in the Garden, that word was used for God rescuing his people, and military strength. That means that Eve was a strong warrior, prepared to stand at Adam's side through all things. The woman is not called an ezer warrior after the Fall. That was when roles started, not God's Plan A, but Plan B.

In fact, I would think since Christ saved us and set us free, we should be trying to live as Christians in a new, changed way than the abject sinners Adam and Eve were after the Fall. Certainly recognizing women as equals is part of the Kingdom of God.

That very issue is handled in this neat article:

https://www.beautifulchristianlife....p-exist-in-the-garden-of-eden-before-the-fall

 

[notuptome]

As cancel culture would say, your male elitist privilege is showing! There was no male headship in the Garden of Eden. Eve was called an "ezer-warrior." She was equal to the man. In fact, besides the 2 references to the word Ezer for Eve in the Garden, that word was used for God rescuing his people, and military strength. That means that Eve was a strong warrior, prepared to stand at Adam's side through all things. The woman is not called an ezer warrior after the Fall. That was when roles started, not God's Plan A, but Plan B.

In fact, I would think since Christ saved us and set us free, we should be trying to live as Christians in a new, changed way than the abject sinners Adam and Eve were after the Fall. Certainly recognizing women as equals is part of the Kingdom of God. Besides, there are many men pastors with "pure" credentials, who live secret sinful lives. Ravi Zacharius comes to mind, with his molesting or raping any woman he wanted. A long time ago it was Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker! Fine, upstanding godly men, until they were found out about their secret sins.

Better to have a woman as lead pastor, because most women are not after sex with many men all the time. (I recognize many men are not like this, but because of the way women are, a normal woman is not sex crazy!)

As as for comparing God-called women to sinful men, such as homosexuals is really putting down women! It shows your deep seated misogyny, by making any woman equal to outright sinful men. I won't argue against the truth that some women are sinful, or even willfully sinful, but I think if a survey on pastor's secret lives was done, a lot of men pastors would lose their ordination. Even in theology, men have issues. I think my pastor is morally righteous. But his theology stinks! He believes in open theology, which undermines the sovereignty of God. And his sermons show it! Meanwhile, or assistant pastor is a young woman who preaches well, and is very orthodox in her theology. She preaches better than our senior pastor. She inspires the church to walk closer to Christ, preaches not just good theology, but application. I've been considering leaving the church over the pastor, but I need to wait till we are back in our churches. Where I live, all churches have been totally shut, because our COVID cases are at their highest ever. Yet, no one has offered a shred of evidence that the virus is being passed around at churches. That is definitely the left trying to destroy Christianity in Canada.

The fact is, women are and can be pastors. And all this bad theology, saying we should, as baptized believers, not look forward to the liberation from sin that Jesus brought by dying in the cross, but instead constantly focus on the Fall and its results is ludicrous! Gal 3:28-29 says:

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

This is the promise of following Jesus Christ. Not rigid roles and barriers to women, slaves and Gentiles. But rather each person God picks being put in a complex, man-made hierarchical community, but rather all equal and using their God-given gifts to serve the community of God!

Oh how wrong you are. God has not adapted Himself to the modern culture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

No, no, no. Don't try that one. There is a difference here between the sexes in the role of services, which Paul by all certainty expounded perfectly clear on in 1Cor.14:34-40 and 1Tim.2:9-15.

Fallacy: circular reasoning.

Again, you are arguing with Paul, not me. I didn't write this. Get that.

If I'm arguing with Paul, why are you involved? Don't be ridiculous. You and I are discussing our interpretations of Paul.

 

[Dino246]

Qualifications For A Bishop Is To Be A Married "Man" That Rules His House Well, Read It Before Your Eyes, In Bold Red

1 Timothy 3:1-5KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

You have been told aready that the male nouns and pronouns do not exist in the Greek of this passage, with the sole exception of husband. You are arguing from a position of stubborn, willful ignorance, and you are wrong.

 

[tribesman]

Fallacy: circular reasoning.


If I'm arguing with Paul, why are you involved? Don't be ridiculous. You and I are discussing our interpretations of Paul.

Is your Saturday fun about gainsaying people?

 

[John146]

You have been told aready that the male nouns and pronouns do not exist in the Greek of this passage, with the sole exception of husband. You are arguing from a position of stubborn, willful ignorance, and you are wrong.

Are you saying a female can be a husband?

 

[Dino246]

Straw man. There be mentionings of such a word as consecration, basically with the same meaning. Anybody can read up on this and understand the principle.

There is no straw man argument in my post.

Again, you introduced the term, "ordain", and now you're backpedaling because you realized that your position is fatally flawed.

 

[tribesman]

There is no straw man argument in my post.

Again, you introduced the term, "ordain", and now you're backpedaling because you realized that your position is fatally flawed.

What is your problem really? "Introduced"? I already told you that different words with the very same meaning applies throughout scripture. But you hook up on the word "ordained" and want to make a debate about it. You are trolling, man.

 

[tribesman]

Saturday fun: gainsay people at christian chat.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus is a great dancer.

 

[Dino246]

What is your problem really? "Introduced"? I already told you that different words with the very same meaning applies throughout scripture. But you hook up on the word "ordained" and want to make a debate about it. You are trolling, man.

You may not like my responses, and you are welcome to your opinion. However, I am certainly not trolling. I have been a member of this site for almost six years, and have debated this topic many times.

If you don't appreciate being shown the flaws in your arguments, then change your arguments.

 

[tribesman]

You may not like my responses, and you are welcome to your opinion. However, I am certainly not trolling. I have been a member of this site for almost six years, and have debated this topic many times.

If you don't appreciate being shown the flaws in your arguments, then change your arguments.

No flaws, no change arguments. You must have a boring life.

 

[Dino246]

No flaws, no change arguments. You must have a boring life.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the ad hominem remark: the default position of one who cannot form a rational argument.

 

[tribesman]

Here, ladies and gentlemen, we have the ad hominem remark: the default position of one who cannot form a rational argument.

This is what you like, bouncing things back and forth hours on end, trolling and spamming the site with your oneliners. Apparent many of your posts in many threads. You have shown enough of your true colors. You are now put on my growing ignore list. Enjoy your Saturday fun!

 

[CS1]

I agree that women can teach, pray and worship and do all things, except Pastor a church either alone or as a co-pastor with her husband.

With all due respect, That idea is NOT Biblical but instead it is a denominational teaching to get around the directions given by Paul.

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12)

Verse 11 says, “Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.”
The Greek adversative “de” (“but” in English) links verse 12 back to 11. Paul wants women to learn in the entire submissiveness.

Some even say that the Greek words “gyne” (woman) and “andros” (man) mean wife and husband. This would render the verse as, “But I do not allow a wife to teach or exercise authority over a husband, but to remain quiet.” (1 Tim. 2:12). Supporters of this argument then conclude that this would not prevent a woman from being a pastor since this is not speaking of women in general but only wives in relation to their husbands. Is this argument sound? No, it isn’t.

WHY????

If a wife were a pastor and her husband were in the congregation, then when she taught, she’d be teaching her husband. This can’t work–unless the husband has to leave the church each time his wife teaches. Ridiculous? You bet!

In all of the 17 English translations of the Bible I have (Darby, ASV, ESV, HCSB, ISV, KJV, NASB95, NASB, NCV, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV, WUESTNT, RSV, GNB, WorrelNT, YLT), none translate the verse as wife and husband, so why do people assert that it is about a husband and wife?

are you suggesting that teaching is asserting authority? Because it is not. A Teacher is not one of authority, a "teacher " is a gift to the church to edify, comfort, and exhort. IF you are suggesting a husband can not learn for his wife because that is her placing her authority over her husband that is absurd and unbiblical.

 

[101G]

No. You do NOT go with the Bible, you press something into the Bible which is not there. And I wonder where you have gotten this view from and who have taught you so. Whosoever that person or these persons be, have erred. Phoebe is quiet well known to be said to have been a deaconess, and a lady may be a deaconess. But not a bishop. Church history records do not list Phoebe as a bishop.

Imagine the upheaval if the apostles had ordained. If there was ordained women clergy in the early church then for sure we would have numerous records and mentioning of such among fathers, who would all agree on such information. But we don't. And do not make Paul preach against himself, will you. That will mess up things a lot for you.

GINOLJC, to all,
first thanks for the reply, second, we have Church history written right before our own very own eyes to see.... the BIBLE, Roman chapter 16 shows us two women Biships, Phebe, and Priscilla. and as for our sister Phebe, you pressed the term "DEACON" in there, for SERVANT can also mean "MINISTER",
G1249 διάκονος diakonos (d̮iy-a'-ko-nos) n.
1. an attendant, a servant.
2. (genitive case) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties).
3. (specially) a male Christian serving in a specific function and post (i.e. tending the widows and the poor, teaching, pastoring, etc).
[probably from an obsolete diako “to run on errands”]
KJV: deacon, minister, servant

notice Definition #3. well our sister Phebe is the G4368 προστάτις prostatis, a succourer, which is the [feminine of a derivative of G4291]
and G4291 is
G4291 προΐστημι proistemi (pro-iy'-stee-miy) v.
1. to stand before.
2. (in rank) to preside.
3. (by implication) to practise.
[from G4253 and G2476]
KJV: maintain, be over, rule

so what you're saying is that our sister is more than a deacon, as having the RULE OVER, is an OVERSEER, which is a BISHOP.

as said, I must go with the BIBLE, and not men.

PICJAG.
101G

 

[101G]

Qualifications For A Bishop Is To Be A Married "Man" That Rules His House Well, Read It Before Your Eyes, In Bold Red

1 Timothy 3:1-5KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

first thanks for the reply, second, right in front of your eyes, can you not read what you're arguing your point from? listen, 1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work....... "DESIRE", not appointed, desire is a want, not a IS. (sorry for the English there... (smile). 1 Timothy 3 is the qualification for a married man, (and if have children). well all men, (as with women), are not married, was the apostle Paul married? well that should disqualify him correct, well the apostle Paul was a BISHOP/Pastor. so your assessment don't hold water, or hold up.

PICJAG,
101G