The key to the Pre-Trib Rapture:
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What do you think about the millennial kingdom?[/QUOTE]
Consider these few points:
--BOTH viewpoints agree He "RETURNS" *after* the tribulation [POST-tribulation];
--the TWO "RETURN" verses (re: Jesus) say the following... Lk12:"36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat [G347], and will come forth and serve them." [the remainder of this context clearly parallels the wording of the latter part of Matthew 24 of the Olivet Discourse; and these "BLESSED" verses in this context correspond with about 8 other "BLESSED" passages re: their entrance into the MK age];...
...and Lk19:12,15,17,19 " 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities." [this passage clearly parallels what Jesus talked about in Matthew 25:14-30 of the Olivet Discourse]
--so these TWO "RETURN" verses/passages tell us a cpl of things (not to mention their parallel passages): "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom; not "TO BE wed" [which is consistent with other related passages speaking of same]);...
...and "have thou AUTHORITY OVER 10 CITIES / 5 CITIES" ("cities" are on the earth [see also Rev2:26-27 in view of both Rev5:10's "shall reign on the earth" and Rev19:15b's "He shall [future tense] rule/shepherd them [the nations] with a rod of iron" (future to THIS point in the chronology, even)]... this is consistent with prophecies regarding same, even in the OT, parallel to these--referring to the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age--what Jesus referred to as "the AGE [SINGULAR] to come" Matt12:32 ["age [SINGULAR]" always connected with earth-time-and-history, as opposed to the phrase "the ages [PLURAL] of the ages [PLURAL]" which we know as "forever / eternity / etc"])
[note: this just covers the TWO "RETURN" passages (and their parallels)... but there are TONS MORE references to same, such as Lk22:30 / Matt19:28(<--parallel the wording on Matt25:31-34 showing the TIMING of)--Jesus told "the 12" they will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (see the parallels to THESE passages, which connect further...)]
What do you think about the millennial kingdom?[/QUOTE]
Consider these few points:
--BOTH viewpoints agree He "RETURNS" *after* the tribulation [POST-tribulation];
--the TWO "RETURN" verses (re: Jesus) say the following... Lk12:"36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat [G347], and will come forth and serve them." [the remainder of this context clearly parallels the wording of the latter part of Matthew 24 of the Olivet Discourse; and these "BLESSED" verses in this context correspond with about 8 other "BLESSED" passages re: their entrance into the MK age];...
...and Lk19:12,15,17,19 " 12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities." [this passage clearly parallels what Jesus talked about in Matthew 25:14-30 of the Olivet Discourse]
--so these TWO "RETURN" verses/passages tell us a cpl of things (not to mention their parallel passages): "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom; not "TO BE wed" [which is consistent with other related passages speaking of same]);...
...and "have thou AUTHORITY OVER 10 CITIES / 5 CITIES" ("cities" are on the earth [see also Rev2:26-27 in view of both Rev5:10's "shall reign on the earth" and Rev19:15b's "He shall [future tense] rule/shepherd them [the nations] with a rod of iron" (future to THIS point in the chronology, even)]... this is consistent with prophecies regarding same, even in the OT, parallel to these--referring to the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age--what Jesus referred to as "the AGE [SINGULAR] to come" Matt12:32 ["age [SINGULAR]" always connected with earth-time-and-history, as opposed to the phrase "the ages [PLURAL] of the ages [PLURAL]" which we know as "forever / eternity / etc"])
[note: this just covers the TWO "RETURN" passages (and their parallels)... but there are TONS MORE references to same, such as Lk22:30 / Matt19:28(<--parallel the wording on Matt25:31-34 showing the TIMING of)--Jesus told "the 12" they will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (see the parallels to THESE passages, which connect further...)]
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Let's take a look at Rev16... I've posted on this in many past posts (apologies to those who've already read those multitude of posts 
) :
--Rev16:14-16 / 19:19,21 / 20:5 (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth); <--plz note the underlined v.21 "and the remnant WERE SLAIN" ;
is PARALLEL to
--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words of Isaiah 24:21-22a[23]
... then verse 22b (of Isaiah 24) tells us of the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in this passage (i.e. the LATER GWTj), and discloses to us that there is a TIME PERIOD which comes BETWEEN these two "PUNISH" words (which is consistent with all other passages on this Subject, including the SEQUENCE between Rev19&20 as well as the wording shown in Daniel 7:[25]27 "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven..." [following the specific time-period of v.25 of Dan7, parallel to the wording of passages elsewhere, related])
) :--Rev16:14-16 / 19:19,21 / 20:5 (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth); <--plz note the underlined v.21 "and the remnant WERE SLAIN" ;
is PARALLEL to
--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words of Isaiah 24:21-22a[23]
... then verse 22b (of Isaiah 24) tells us of the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in this passage (i.e. the LATER GWTj), and discloses to us that there is a TIME PERIOD which comes BETWEEN these two "PUNISH" words (which is consistent with all other passages on this Subject, including the SEQUENCE between Rev19&20 as well as the wording shown in Daniel 7:[25]27 "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven..." [following the specific time-period of v.25 of Dan7, parallel to the wording of passages elsewhere, related])
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Me the same, did you visit that Toronto Blessing, that moved down to Brownsville, Big Smiles!
I believe in and have received the gift of speaking in other tongues, I believe the spiritual gifts are alive today.
However The 3-4 "Small" Pentecostal churches I attended were way out of line.
Men, women, children, running about the church, rolling on the floor, supposedly speaking in tongues, as the pastor was keeping the drum cadence going at the pulpit, it was a show of who could be the loudest and most dramatic (CHAOS)!!!!!!!!!
The actions in these churches would make a Benny Hinn crusade look like child's play!
Do all churches that claim to be Pentecostal do the same (NO) the AOG and 4 Square to mention a few I have been to.
I believe in and have received the gift of speaking in other tongues, I believe the spiritual gifts are alive today.
However The 3-4 "Small" Pentecostal churches I attended were way out of line.
Men, women, children, running about the church, rolling on the floor, supposedly speaking in tongues, as the pastor was keeping the drum cadence going at the pulpit, it was a show of who could be the loudest and most dramatic (CHAOS)!!!!!!!!!
The actions in these churches would make a Benny Hinn crusade look like child's play!
Do all churches that claim to be Pentecostal do the same (NO) the AOG and 4 Square to mention a few I have been to.
Noah and Lot were removed from "Harm's Way" just as the Church will be (Caught Up/Raptured) at the 2nd coming, prior to Gods fire in wrath
As scripture "Clearly Teaches" below, Lot was taken out of Sodom and then fire in destruction, just as the Church will be taken out (Catching Up/Rapture) and then the Lords fire in destruction upon (This Earth) when he is (Revealed) at the (Second Coming)
(Destroyed Them All)
Luke 17:28-30KJV
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
As scripture "Clearly Teaches" below, Lot was taken out of Sodom and then fire in destruction, just as the Church will be taken out (Catching Up/Rapture) and then the Lords fire in destruction upon (This Earth) when he is (Revealed) at the (Second Coming)
(Destroyed Them All)
Luke 17:28-30KJV
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Me the same, did you visit that Toronto Blessing, that moved down to Brownsville, Big Smiles!
I believe in and have received the gift of speaking in other tongues, I believe the spiritual gifts are alive today.
However The 3-4 "Small" Pentecostal churches I attended were way out of line.
Men, women, children, running about the church, rolling on the floor, supposedly speaking in tongues, as the pastor was keeping the drum cadence going at the pulpit, it was a show of who could be the loudest and most dramatic (CHAOS)!!!!!!!!!
The actions in these churches would make a Benny Hinn crusade look like child's play!
Do all churches that claim to be Pentecostal do the same (NO) the AOG and 4 Square to mention a few I have been to.
I believe in and have received the gift of speaking in other tongues, I believe the spiritual gifts are alive today.
However The 3-4 "Small" Pentecostal churches I attended were way out of line.
Men, women, children, running about the church, rolling on the floor, supposedly speaking in tongues, as the pastor was keeping the drum cadence going at the pulpit, it was a show of who could be the loudest and most dramatic (CHAOS)!!!!!!!!!
The actions in these churches would make a Benny Hinn crusade look like child's play!
Do all churches that claim to be Pentecostal do the same (NO) the AOG and 4 Square to mention a few I have been to.
I always suggest that people read BOTH CHAPTERS of Isaiah 34 & 35 (not merely extracting ONE VERSE, v.34:4, out from its context) to help ascertain just what Peter means in this text (2Pet3:10-12) and the three times "dissolved" is used in these three verses... so that one can begin to see that the "IN WHICH" (of this text) covers a lot of territory (time-wise), not merely "split-second" (just like the "IN WHICH" of Acts 17:31 does also ['IN WHICH He will judge [/govern] the world in righteousness IN/BY A MAN whom He hath appointed...' (see rest of verse, as well as Heb1:8[<--'age [singular]' and 'sceptre of righteousness'])])... = ) ... [noting also how the word "elements" is used elsewhere]
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You Will Continue To Pose The Question, I Will Continue To Give The Answer
There is no question that the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:1-6 is (Symbolic), as stated before, all elements seen are 100% in the Lords spiritual realm of (No Literal Earthly Time) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?
(Fact) No Literal Kingdom, No Mortal Humans Are Seen As Millennialist Claim, These Being A Big Fabricated Fairy Tale, Just As A Pre-Trib Rapture.
As Scripture "Clearly Teaches" The Lord Returns In Fire (Dissolving This Earth)
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
There is no question that the 1,000 years in Revelation 20:1-6 is (Symbolic), as stated before, all elements seen are 100% in the Lords spiritual realm of (No Literal Earthly Time) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ?
(Fact) No Literal Kingdom, No Mortal Humans Are Seen As Millennialist Claim, These Being A Big Fabricated Fairy Tale, Just As A Pre-Trib Rapture.
As Scripture "Clearly Teaches" The Lord Returns In Fire (Dissolving This Earth)
There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
No need to post a video, we know well what the case is.
As stated, I have received the gift of speaking in other tongues, while praying in my room, roughly 3 months after my repentance and confession to salvation, several years ago, the gift is the same today and used in my prayer life.
I have been in the "Small" Pentecostal meetings, and as you state, I also have yet to see a genuine, orderly, working of the Holy Spirit.
Its man based indulgence in self, with those in the carnal flesh, trying to compete in the outward expression of who has more of a Holy Spirit that isnt present.
100% Chaos!
As stated, I have received the gift of speaking in other tongues, while praying in my room, roughly 3 months after my repentance and confession to salvation, several years ago, the gift is the same today and used in my prayer life.
I have been in the "Small" Pentecostal meetings, and as you state, I also have yet to see a genuine, orderly, working of the Holy Spirit.
Its man based indulgence in self, with those in the carnal flesh, trying to compete in the outward expression of who has more of a Holy Spirit that isnt present.
100% Chaos!
No need to look at Isaiah 34 & 35, as 2 Peter 3:10-13 & Rev 21:1-5 are the only description needed for interpretation
At The (Second Coming) the earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire on (The Day Of The Lord) when he returns as a (Thief) as 2 Peter 3:13 states we are to look for the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, after this event.
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
At The (Second Coming) the earth will be dissolved by the Lords fire on (The Day Of The Lord) when he returns as a (Thief) as 2 Peter 3:13 states we are to look for the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, after this event.
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, it's not in "Chronological" teachings of events, in order of sequence as many falsely claim and teach.
Example: The 7th Trump Rev 11:15 and 7th Vial Rev 16:17 are the exact same event, showing (The End)
Rev 16:12-14 & Rev 20:7-8 are the same event of gathering the nations and final battle
Example: The 7th Trump Rev 11:15 and 7th Vial Rev 16:17 are the exact same event, showing (The End)
Rev 16:12-14 & Rev 20:7-8 are the same event of gathering the nations and final battle
At Rev16:12-16 [ / Rev19:19,21 / 20:5], it is not the case that Satan will have just been "loosed out of his prison"-Rev20:7
[see again the parallel passage Isa24:21-22a[23] and the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words that this passage says INCLUDES "the host of the high ones that are on high, AND the kings of the earth upon the earth"],
...which Subject I posted on, yesterday, here (re: the "chronology" issues):
Post #197 - https://christianchat.com/threads/the-key-to-the-pre-trib-rapture.198174/post-4523021
Satan and his angels will have just been (shortly before) "cast out into the earth / come DOWN unto you / cast unto the earth" (when 1260 days are yet remaining, aka "knoweth he hath but A SHORT TIME"--see also the wording in Rev12:9,10,12,13[3,4a,7, 8<--"neither was their place found any more in heaven"/"cast down"]).
The "7th Trumpet" corresponds [more closely] to the "1st Vial" than it does to the "6th Vial," see (and even the events of the "6th Vial" show they require SOME TIME, before the END of the Trib and Christ's RETURN / at the Armageddon time-slot, 16:14-16/19:19,21).
"Chronology" is very important, to proper understanding.
[see again the parallel passage Isa24:21-22a[23] and the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words that this passage says INCLUDES "the host of the high ones that are on high, AND the kings of the earth upon the earth"],
...which Subject I posted on, yesterday, here (re: the "chronology" issues):
Post #197 - https://christianchat.com/threads/the-key-to-the-pre-trib-rapture.198174/post-4523021
Satan and his angels will have just been (shortly before) "cast out into the earth / come DOWN unto you / cast unto the earth" (when 1260 days are yet remaining, aka "knoweth he hath but A SHORT TIME"--see also the wording in Rev12:9,10,12,13[3,4a,7, 8<--"neither was their place found any more in heaven"/"cast down"]).
The "7th Trumpet" corresponds [more closely] to the "1st Vial" than it does to the "6th Vial," see (and even the events of the "6th Vial" show they require SOME TIME, before the END of the Trib and Christ's RETURN / at the Armageddon time-slot, 16:14-16/19:19,21).
"Chronology" is very important, to proper understanding.
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After carefully studying all related scriptures I determined there is no pre-trib rapture. It’s a lie made up by someone who didn’t want to suffer, and then found other sheep to believe him.
Jesus PROMISED ALL of His True followers would suffer, especially in the last days.
Yes we will be caught up, but not before the great tribulation. Does anyone else agree it sure does look like we are in it now?
Ask yourself when is the last time you suffered for loving Jesus Christ? If you can’t think of anything then you might want to consider the direction of your salvation.
Jesus PROMISED ALL of His True followers would suffer, especially in the last days.
Yes we will be caught up, but not before the great tribulation. Does anyone else agree it sure does look like we are in it now?
Ask yourself when is the last time you suffered for loving Jesus Christ? If you can’t think of anything then you might want to consider the direction of your salvation.
"The Church which is His body" has experienced "persecutions and tribulations" ever since its existence in the first century, 2Th1:4 (<--which is why the Thessalonians found it so easy to be convinced by false conveyors that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT [PERFECT INDICATIVE]". 2Th2:2. It wasn't, and Paul is telling them WHY. 2Th2:3-9a). We are not waiting for the "7 yr period" in order to experience it.
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It is not a lie, but a promise from the Lord. The error that many make, is not recognizing the trials and tribulation resulting from faith vs. God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It is the latter that believers within the church are not appointed to suffer. When we believed we were credited with righteousness and reconciled to God. So, why would the Lord put His bride through His wrath?
The Lord experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and must be remove prior to God's wrath which is initiated at the opening of the first seal rider on the white horse, which symbolically represents the antichrist. Aside from this, we have other scriptures that demonstrate that the church will be in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb during the tribulation period. You must of missed that.
Here's another issue: In Revelation 22 there is a warning that for anyone who adds to the prophesies of the book of Revelation, God will add to that person the plagues of wrath contained in the book. Yet, you and others put the church (all who believe in His Son), through God's wrath for no reason.
The Lord experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and must be remove prior to God's wrath which is initiated at the opening of the first seal rider on the white horse, which symbolically represents the antichrist. Aside from this, we have other scriptures that demonstrate that the church will be in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb during the tribulation period. You must of missed that.
Here's another issue: In Revelation 22 there is a warning that for anyone who adds to the prophesies of the book of Revelation, God will add to that person the plagues of wrath contained in the book. Yet, you and others put the church (all who believe in His Son), through God's wrath for no reason.
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I am not saying that Peter and co got it wrong, there will be loud bangs and fervent heat ... just not at the second coming, the beast will be destroyed with the nations that come up with him and the church will be raptured ... The the Lord will set up His kingdom here on earth with the then converted Jews, for a thousand years they will reign, Satan will be bound.
At the end of the 1,000 years Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once more THAT'S when all the loud bangs begin.
The Jerusalem apostles simply did not know about the rapture.
At the end of the 1,000 years Satan is loosed to deceive the nations once more THAT'S when all the loud bangs begin.
The Jerusalem apostles simply did not know about the rapture.