Woman can't teach in the congregation
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The verbs bishop and pastor are both represented in the office of the elder as Peter demonstrates in 1Peter 5. One who holds the office of an elder is to shepherd and oversee the flock over which they are responsible. Thus the words ποιμάνατε/shephard and ἐπισκοποῦντες/oversee are to responsibility of the Πρεσβυτέρους/elders. The problem is that we have so abused the term "paster" that we have removed it from it biblical definition.
The Western World Savages kill millions of innocent children annually (Abortion), and approves of same sex marriage in homosexuality
2 Peter 2:6KJV
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
Black African Tribal Leaders Sold People Into Slavery, They Were At The Hierarchy Of The Slave Trade.
Just As The Jews Were Enslaved By The African Egyptians For 400 Years.
Slavery In America Was Primarily By Whites In The South, Driven By Evil Greed, Atrocities To Mankind Without Question.
Just As Liberals Support And Defend Killing The Innocent Unborn (Abortion) No Greater Evil On This Earth.
Conclusion: Black African Tribal Leaders Were At The Hierarchy Of The Slave Trade, Driven By Evil Greed.
No slander You're a liberal, that's my open opinion in observation of your postings over months, who you kidding.
If it walks and looks like a duck, it's a duck, not a dove
Matthew 7:20KJV
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
You take the very simple, clear, teaching of scripture and bend and twist it to suit your liberal views
You could be liable for copyright infringement, but I believe the patent on that expired in the garden
A Bishop/Pastor Is to be a "Man" the husband of one wife, and the Deacon also.
Yes a Bishop is the Pastor/Overseer, the person responsible for the church.
1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Premise: "Black African Tribal Leaders Were At The Hierarchy Of The Slave Trade"
Conclusion: "Black African Tribal Leaders Were At The Hierarchy Of The Slave Trade"
That is the essence of circular reasoning.
The word translated "a man" is not the word for "adult male". It's the word for "anyone". Deal with it.
I don't give a duck what you think of me. You are a hypocrite, so your opinion is worthless.No slander You're a liberal, that's my open opinion in observation of your postings over months, who you kidding.
If it walks and looks like a duck, it's a duck, not a dove
Matthew 7:20KJV
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I am requesting your explanation of the logical connection between verse 36 and verses 34-35.
I agree; the term "pastor" is used today in ways that confuse the issue; and yes, Peter links the task of shepherding to the role of elders. However, most people who would forbid females from being pastors claim that Paul specifically forbids it. He doesn't. No amount of exegetical gymnastics will put a word in Paul's letters that he didn't put there.
Strong's Greek English Morphology
4103 [e] Πιστὸς Pistos Trustworthy [is]Adj-NMS
3588 [e] ὁ ho the Art-NMS
3056 [e] λόγος· logos saying: N-NMS
1487 [e] εἴ ei If Conj
5100 [e] τις tis anyone IPro-NMS
1984 [e] ἐπισκοπῆς episkopēs overseership N-GFS
Source: https://biblehub.com/text/1_timothy/3-1.htm
As I said; deal with it.
You Have Validated My Claim, As Expected
Once again, you take the very simple, clear, teaching of scripture and bend and twist it to suit your liberal views.
You could be liable for copyright infringement, but I believe the patent on that expired in the garden
A Bishop/Pastor Is to be a "Man" the husband of one wife, and the Deacon also.
Yes a Bishop is the Pastor/Overseer, the person responsible for the church.
1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Yawn. Deal with the text instead of avoiding it.You Have Validated My Claim, As Expected
Once again, you take the very simple, clear, teaching of scripture and bend and twist it to suit your liberal views.
Let me just start here.
“Therefore, if the whole church assembles together (This is the condition that specifies and limits what follows) and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn, and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints, the women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands (ἄνδρας – men or husbands) at home; for (here is the reason) it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only? (This is the reason the woman is commanded to show self-restraint.) If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone ignores this, he is to be ignored (consequences). Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.”
A. Notice – the occasion / condition is “if the whole church assembles together.” The “anyone” of verse 27 is qualified by the “he” of verse 28 and has a limited application. This instruction is given to “all the churches of the saints.” In the context of the prophesying and tongues, “the women are to keep silent” and are “not permitted to speak.” Their subjection is to be self-imposed as they are to “subject themselves.” This is active, not passive they are to be self-subjecting not having to be forced to be subject. Clarification for whatever questions they may have was to be addressed “at home.” Why? Because it is “improper for a woman to speak in church.”
1. In verse 26 regarding the speaking in tongues, revelation, psalms, and interpretation Paul address the men saying, “each one,” this is nom, masc, sing. In verse 27 he says, “if anyone,” this too is nom, masc, sing. This is then reinforced in verse 28 by “let him be silent,” “let him speak to himself.” All of this is in relation to “a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.” In verse 29-33 Paul then address the issue of prophesying and in verses 33 and 34 commands the women to keep silent in this as well and not to speak because it is improper for them to do so.
2. Paul ends all of this by saying, “these things are the Lord's commandment.”
There are several problems with your interpretation:
1. It leaves unmarried adult females without anyone to ask their questions.
2. It contradicts 1 Cor. 11:5 wherein females are expressly permitted to speak (pray and prophesy), which makes no sense if they were not in the assembly.
3. It does not cite any passage in the Law that requires women to subject themselves and/or be silent.
4. It does not deal with the "What?" at the beginning of verse 36. The word is translated "Or" in some versions, but that doesn't make good sense of the passage.
5. There is nothing in the text, anywhere, that suggests that women thought the word of God had come only from or to them. There is no reason given as to why Paul would ask the questions in verse 36.
A sound interpretation must make sense of all these issues.
From a conservative, Spirit filled Christian, that understands the simplicity of scripture, and it's clear teaching.
A Bishop/Pastor Is to be a "Man" the husband of one wife, and the Deacon also.
Yes a Bishop is the Pastor/Overseer, the person responsible for the church.
1 Timothy 3:1-13KJV
1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
It isn't an interpretation Dino. I just showed you what the text says. What you choose to do with the information is up to you.
Here are some generalized principles we can take away from this text.
Why is the submission of the woman such a big deal? Why does Paul spend so much time stressing this issue in so many different places? Contrary to popular belief, these two texts are not the only ones where Paul addresses the submission of women in the Church. If this is such a small matter as some argue, why is so much time dedicated to it in scripture?
What we learn about the woman's place in this hierarchy of authority is that she is the ultimate symbol of the Church and its relationship to God. I think most women either overlook this or just simply do not appreciate the significance of the symbolism of the woman in the Church. They do not seem to appreciate the fact that this is a most honored position. The woman's position in relation to man is designed to reflect the relationship of the Church to Christ.
The woman is the feminine in her relationship to man. In just the same way, the Church is always represented as feminine in its relationship to Christ. The woman is the bride just as the Church is the bride. Just as the Church must always assume the position of submission to its head – Christ, so also must the woman always assume the position of subordination to her head – the man; and this is the only position she is permitted to occupy. Man represents God and woman represents the Church. Scripture reveals a number of ways in which this symbolism is reflected such as the covering of the head while praying or prophesying, being silent in the assembly, not assuming authority over the man, not presuming to teach or preach in the assembly, and being excluded from serving as elders. When the woman fails to honor any of this, she violates the symbol.
A. Ephesians 5:22-32 speaks volumes about the symbolism of the woman.
“Wives be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. (This emphasizes the degree to which she is to be in submission.) For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, (This establishes the symbolism.) He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.” (This is an unqualified statement that offers NO exceptions.)
“Husbands love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So, husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body. 'For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' (She is one with man just as the Church is one with Christ.) This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.”
Because the woman occupies such an honored position in her symbolism, she is to be the recipient of tenderness, love, nurturing, and supreme sacrifice (the husband must be willing to die for her). Her husband is to cherish her and regard her as holy, spotless, and blameless. When the man fails to do this, he dishonors the symbolism. This his how Christ honors the Church so, this is how the husband is to honor the wife.
B. Timothy 2:9-15 1.
“Likewise, women are to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. (A woman's beauty is not reflected in outward adornment but in her conduct, her behavior.) A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.”
Why is the woman to “quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness,” because of the symbolism, this is how the Church is to receive her instruction from the Lord – “quietly, with entiresubmissiveness.” The woman as the symbol of the Church must reflect this same attitude.
2. “But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. (How does she reflect the symbolism in this? Would the Church presume to instruct the Lord? Would the Church presume to exorcise authority over the Lord?) For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.” Restraint then, is to be self-imposed just as the Church is to exercise self-restraint in all things.
C. Titus 1:1-5
“Older women likewise are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.”
Her behavior must reflect that of the Church of which she stands as a symbol.
D. Corinthians 11:3-12
“But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake. Therefore, the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.”
E. 1 Corinthians 14:24-36,
“The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?”
1. This is a reciprocal relationship. This defines a relationship in which duties and obligations are owed by one individual to another and vice versa. A reciprocal contract is one in which both parties enter into a mutual agreement. Paul presents the hierarchy of authority in this way...
God | Christ | Man | Woman
The hierarchy of authority flows unidirectionally with authority flowing from God down to man, (authority never flows from the bottom up,) and obligation being given the bottom upward. Our obligation to God in this relationship represents a reciprocal of status in which God stipulates the meaning of terms and assigns his own meaning to revealed symbols. This reciprocal is never reversed. Man is never allowed to occupy the status of the woman and the woman is NEVER allowed to occupy the status of the man. This was reflected in the issue of the head covering and the wearing of long hair. It is also reflected in the teaching and remaining silent.
Our current society has absolutely destroyed the meaning of the woman as a revealed symbol. Popular rationalism and human experience insist that the assigned symbolism of the woman in the Church is out of date, sexist, archaic, chauvinistic, demeaning, evil, and unnecessarily burdensome upon women. It is regarded as unreasonable and irrational. Submission to this divine prohibition involves an act of faith. Violation of it then is necessarily an act of faithlessness. Society has become so morally destitute that it no longer recognizes the honored position of the woman yet, they regard themselves as the enlightened ones.
By refusing to acknowledge the revealed status by refusing to be in submission, (which Paul says is exemplified here in her remaining silent in the assembly) violates this status. The woman is seen here as the terminus symbol. In this hierarchy of authority, she is the final link of symbolism, which represents the whole. When she refuses to render submission, she steps out of this reciprocal and out of revealed symbolism.
2. This status is stipulated by God who is the ultimate governing authority. God has designated the symbolism in this way...
Male/husband = “image and glory of God.”
Woman/wife = “glory of man.”
The argument from the Law shows the timelessness of this revealed principle. They are to “subject themselves, just as the Law also says.” Revealed principles never change, and they are never overturned.
Paul uses the appointed stewardship of the gospel to reinforce the symbolism. “Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?” If God had entrusted the woman with the gospel, or if she alone had received it, then this would have changed all the rules. But he did not. God did not entrust the word of God to the woman, but to man. This has absolutely nothing to do with superior intelligence, abilities, talents, or skills. This is in keeping with the divinely established symbolism of both the man and the woman. For the woman to assume the role of the teacher or the preacher, she is refusing to acknowledge her assigned place in the revelation continuum. When the man surrenders his place in this revelation continuum to the woman, this destroys the symbolism of the hierarchy of authority.
F. Resistance
DO NOT INFRINGE UPON THE REVEALED MEANING OF SYMBOLS in order to indulge personal will or desires or to appease social norms. Revelation must be allowed to burden our behavior, and this is not related to society or culture, nor is it controlled by time.
The source of contention presented in verses 37-38 is not revelation, it is human reason that attempts to assign its own meaning to revealed symbols. Concerning this matter Paul said, “If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is to be ignored.”
“The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?”
1. This is a reciprocal relationship. This defines a relationship in which duties and obligations are owed by one individual to another and vice versa. A reciprocal contract is one in which both parties enter into a mutual agreement. Paul presents the hierarchy of authority in this way...
God | Christ | Man | Woman
The hierarchy of authority flows unidirectionally with authority flowing from God down to man, (authority never flows from the bottom up,) and obligation being given the bottom upward. Our obligation to God in this relationship represents a reciprocal of status in which God stipulates the meaning of terms and assigns his own meaning to revealed symbols. This reciprocal is never reversed. Man is never allowed to occupy the status of the woman and the woman is NEVER allowed to occupy the status of the man. This was reflected in the issue of the head covering and the wearing of long hair. It is also reflected in the teaching and remaining silent.
Our current society has absolutely destroyed the meaning of the woman as a revealed symbol. Popular rationalism and human experience insist that the assigned symbolism of the woman in the Church is out of date, sexist, archaic, chauvinistic, demeaning, evil, and unnecessarily burdensome upon women. It is regarded as unreasonable and irrational. Submission to this divine prohibition involves an act of faith. Violation of it then is necessarily an act of faithlessness. Society has become so morally destitute that it no longer recognizes the honored position of the woman yet, they regard themselves as the enlightened ones.
By refusing to acknowledge the revealed status by refusing to be in submission, (which Paul says is exemplified here in her remaining silent in the assembly) violates this status. The woman is seen here as the terminus symbol. In this hierarchy of authority, she is the final link of symbolism, which represents the whole. When she refuses to render submission, she steps out of this reciprocal and out of revealed symbolism.
2. This status is stipulated by God who is the ultimate governing authority. God has designated the symbolism in this way...
Male/husband = “image and glory of God.”
Woman/wife = “glory of man.”
The argument from the Law shows the timelessness of this revealed principle. They are to “subject themselves, just as the Law also says.” Revealed principles never change, and they are never overturned.
Paul uses the appointed stewardship of the gospel to reinforce the symbolism. “Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?” If God had entrusted the woman with the gospel, or if she alone had received it, then this would have changed all the rules. But he did not. God did not entrust the word of God to the woman, but to man. This has absolutely nothing to do with superior intelligence, abilities, talents, or skills. This is in keeping with the divinely established symbolism of both the man and the woman. For the woman to assume the role of the teacher or the preacher, she is refusing to acknowledge her assigned place in the revelation continuum. When the man surrenders his place in this revelation continuum to the woman, this destroys the symbolism of the hierarchy of authority.
F. Resistance
DO NOT INFRINGE UPON THE REVEALED MEANING OF SYMBOLS in order to indulge personal will or desires or to appease social norms. Revelation must be allowed to burden our behavior, and this is not related to society or culture, nor is it controlled by time.
The source of contention presented in verses 37-38 is not revelation, it is human reason that attempts to assign its own meaning to revealed symbols. Concerning this matter Paul said, “If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. But if anyone does not recognize this, he is to be ignored.”