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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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No faith, no salvation!

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If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

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We stand in faith. Just as Israel (the original branches) were broken off, if we Gentile branches have no faith, then we can also be broken off for not having faith.
We stand 'in Christ ',sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Eph 4 30 . Eph 1.13
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
No faith, no salvation!

=======================================================

If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

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We stand in faith. Just as Israel (the original branches) were broken off, if we Gentile branches have no faith, then we can also be broken off for not having faith.
I'm confused . Let's say you died today ,will you go to hell ? if not why not ? What guarantee do you have that you won't go to hell ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not ' earn ' but there is no sealing of the Holy Spirit or the circumcision made without hands in the OT . No regeneration, no ' seated in the heavenly places in Christ ' , No baptism into the Body of Christ . No one had Christ ' in them ' . No one was predestinated to the Adoption. No one was redeemed. They only had remission .
If you can lose salvation it must be earned.

This person can twist it all he wants. But he teaches the people in the OT had to earn salvation.

Abraham was saved by faith in gen 15. He died saved because of that salvation he was given because he believed God and God acredited or imputed to him righteousness. e did not hold his sins against him.

David understood this fact also. when he said blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
If you can lose salvation it must be earned.

This person can twist it all he wants. But he teaches the people in the OT had to earn salvation.

Abraham was saved by faith in gen 15. He died saved because of that salvation he was given because he believed God and God acredited or imputed to him righteousness. e did not hold his sins against him.

David understood this fact also. when he said blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin.
Yes but David recieves mercy . Thats why he prayed not to have the Holy Spirit taken from him .This is not new testament salvation .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
If you can lose salvation it must be earned.

This person can twist it all he wants. But he teaches the people in the OT had to earn salvation.

Abraham was saved by faith in gen 15. He died saved because of that salvation he was given because he believed God and God acredited or imputed to him righteousness. e did not hold his sins against him.

David understood this fact also. when he said blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin.
You have to realise whats different about how we are saved compared to the OT . Remember Jesus had not Died yet for the sins of the world , was not even born yet . No resurrection yet . No giving of the Holy spirit yet .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
If you can lose salvation it must be earned.

This person can twist it all he wants. But he teaches the people in the OT had to earn salvation.

Abraham was saved by faith in gen 15. He died saved because of that salvation he was given because he believed God and God acredited or imputed to him righteousness. e did not hold his sins against him.

David understood this fact also. when he said blessed is the man to whom God does not impute sin.
2 cor 5 .19 explains about " not imputing their trespasses against them "
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes but David recieves mercy . Thats why he prayed not to have the Holy Spirit taken from him .This is not new testament salvation .
David was considered a man after Gods own heart as a child

David did not repent and ask God to keep him saved. He prayed that the spirit, who was given to him as a leader. would not be taken.

This man needs to study more..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You have to realise whats different about how we are saved compared to the OT . Remember Jesus had not Died yet for the sins of the world , was not even born yet . No resurrection yet . No giving of the Holy spirit yet .
I do not have to realise anything other than from the beginning of time, Man has been saved by Grace through faith. The only difference is my salvaion was paid for. Theirs was not yet. There faith was the same though, That God would make a way.

No one at any period could earn there salvation. If salvation can not be earned. it can not be lost.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
I do not have to realise anything other than from the beginning of time, Man has been saved by Grace through faith. The only difference is my salvaion was paid for. Theirs was not yet. There faith was the same though, That God would make a way.

No one at any period could earn there salvation. If salvation can not be earned. it can not be lost.
Earned would be salvation apart from God . Unless God gave a requirement.
I do not have to realise anything other than from the beginning of time, Man has been saved by Grace through faith. The only difference is my salvaion was paid for. Theirs was not yet. There faith was the same though, That God would make a way.

No one at any period could earn there salvation. If salvation can not be earned. it can not be lost.
What do you mean by ' earn salvation ' ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
That started in gen 3: 15 and continues until today.
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So is this not referring to the cross ?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Earned would be salvation apart from God . Unless God gave a requirement.

What do you mean by ' earn salvation ' ?
If salvation can be lost IT MUST BE EARNED

if david could lose his salvation by his sin with bathsheb and her husband (adultry and murder) he had to earn his salvation by not sinning, or if he did sin, did whatever he had to do to have his salvation restored after he sinned.

it’s gospel 101, if anything can be lost based on what we do or do not do, it is not free, it must be earned
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
That started in gen 3: 15 and continues until today.
Are you saying this happened to those BEFORE the cross ?
Col 2 .
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
What does this mean then ?
17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Yep, because if christ is not raised. The promise that started in Gen 3 was never fulfilled, and God is a lar
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you saying this happened to those BEFORE the cross ?
Col 2 .
10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

11¶In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
I am not like you, I believe gods plan of salvation was completed before the foundation of the world,

you Seem to think it started at the cross, to me it was completed at the cross. But God knew it that is why he passed over the sins of those before,

if Jesus failed we would all be lost no matter when we were born
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
If salvation can be lost IT MUST BE EARNED

if david could lose his salvation by his sin with bathsheb and her husband (adultry and murder) he had to earn his salvation by not sinning, or if he did sin, did whatever he had to do to have his salvation restored after he sinned.

it’s gospel 101, if anything can be lost based on what we do or do not do, it is not free, it must be earned
It doesn't matter what phrase you give . Its what the bible says that matters .
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
So is this not referring to the cross ?
Was Gen 3:15 not refering to the cross?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It doesn't matter what phrase you give . Its what the bible says that matters .
Yeah your right

but the Bible is Meaningless if it contradicts the meaning of words

if Salvation can be lost, it must be earned, salvation becomes a wage not a gift, paul made it clear in Romans 4 how Abraham was saved, it was not be earning a reward, but based on his faith
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How could salvation be according to the law if the law required perfection?